Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:34 pm

my favourite so far is this one with some adjustments:
Image
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:53 pm

cgcsb wrote:then quote it


I did.You were the first person on the forum to suggest "a hard engineering solution, like a tunnel."
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby cgcsb » Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:00 pm

EIA340600 wrote:
cgcsb wrote:then quote itQUOTE]

I did.You were the first person on the forum to suggest "a hard engineering solution, like a tunnel."


no, I talked about a hard engineering solution, I never said it was the best solution.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Yixian » Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:16 am

cgcsb wrote:I'd prefere a more walkable surface for the bust through pedestrian traffic, cobbles are hard especially when you're sporting a pair of sensible heels.


Yeah I'm no cobble diehard, just experimenting with some ideas. I see your point - does suit the area though, but then sowould flat stone I imagine.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:58 am

cgcsb wrote:
EIA340600 wrote:
no, I talked about a hard engineering solution, I never said it was the best solution.


But that's not what you said.You suggested a tunnel then put forward reasons as to how it could work aginst rerouting some traffic.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:26 pm

EIA340600 wrote:
cgcsb wrote:
But that's not what you said.You suggested a tunnel then put forward reasons as to how it could work aginst rerouting some traffic.


Oh for crying out loud............
Pack it in you two.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:43 pm

This image infers grattan should be moved...
I would tend to agree...



Image
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby ac1976 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:34 am

Restoration of Dublin to its Georgian glory urged by report
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0428/1224269221820.html
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:18 am

not wishing to piss on your (pedestrianised) parade but I want to reprint a letter in last week's Irish Times with regard to commemoration:

Madam, – In 1916, we were a constituent part of that state to which Kevin O’Connor (April 3rd) refers. Whatever its faults in the administration of our affairs, a foreign state it most certainly was not. We had a fully democratic representation in the UK parliament. We elected a majority supporting Home Rule, with a minority favouring the status quo. The Government of Ireland Act 1914 granted us the initial element of independence – autonomy. Our post-war status was to be on a par with the other dominions, all of whom are now successful independent states (Canada and Newfoundland merged in 1949). This achieved, we volunteered in Europe to do our national duty as urged by our Irish leaders.

A minority dissident republican group began an armed insurrection. It was an unmitigated disaster. As intended by its mentors, the IRB, a breakdown in the civil order occurred (from which we have never recovered). It set the nation in turmoil. It is appropriate to celebrate the efforts of these men as we would the fallen on the Somme. Decent brave citizens doing what they thought was the right thing. The Easter Rising did not achieve an Irish Republic. The first World War did not end all wars.


This State was founded in 1921. The Statutes of Westminster 1931 granted legislative independence to the dominions. Éamon de Valera, on assuming power, responded by enacting the controversial Constitution of 1937.

Surely 2021 is the appropriate time to celebrate our first century of independence? Our familial reconciliation with the UK, the acceptance of the legal existence of our two democratic Irish states, and the equality of partnership in our new and more successful union, the EU, are no small achievements. – Yours, etc,

JOE GEOGHEGAN


if nothing else it'll give you another 5 years to thrash this thread to death
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:44 pm

wearnicehats wrote:if nothing else it'll give you another 5 years to thrash this thread to death


maybe lodge is more appropriate or yesmisterhouse:D
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Pete » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:15 am

wearnicehats wrote:Surely 2021 is the appropriate time to celebrate our first century of independence?


Fair point wearnicehats, celebrate a century of independence on the centenary and not five years early. However, 2016 will not be about celebrating 100 years of independence, it will be about marking the deaths of people who fought and willingly died for it. Who cares is the rising was a bit half arsed in the end, taking over a mill and a post office hardly struck fear into the hearts of the British. Im sure most will agree marking the deaths of some of our greatest patriots is more important then the signing of a piece of paper.

Easter 1916 is a date that is and always will be etched into the hearts and minds of Irish people and this should be celebrated. Just like the millennium was celebrated on 31st December 1999 (at the end of 1999 years, not 2000 which would have been a millennium), it offers a date which is easier to understand and easier to sell.

Anyway, getting back to the point at hand, "Pedestrianise College Green", 2016 offers a set date to work towards. We all know that a definite completion date which can not be overrun is vitally important to completing publicly funded projects on time. Unfortunately the original budget is usually blown out of the water to ensure the project is completed in time.

As for a tunnel, why go to such lengths to accommodate drivers? The city centre should be kept car free, so far as is possible. Drivers traveling from north to south or south to north should be forced to use the M50, instead of cutting through town to avoid the toll, or all the money spent on upgrades is just a waste. Improved public transport would allow for this, such as Metro and extended Luas Green Line north. Again 2016 gives a set date to achieve this. If we are still just talking about it by then we should just give up on it all.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:36 pm

vote now please...

http://proposals.yourcountryyourcall.co ... 7&idea_id={AE8374D2-09F0-42B2-89E1-6EEA42821DD1}

(copy n paste)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Thu Apr 29, 2010 12:45 pm

If we're going to start linking an urban upgrade of College Green with celebrating1916/1921, I take it re-assembling the equestrian statue of King Billy is off the agenda?

Image

I'm sure this must have been posted before, but it's probably worth looking again at that real low point in the urban history of College Green, when in 1929, 'Billy' was briefly replaced by a facsimilé of an Irish round tower as part of the Eucharistic Congress hysteria :)

Image.

Billy might have been the venue for much vulgar triumphalism of the nasty in-your-face sectarian kind, back in the day, and that probably made the act of sticking a round tower on his plot all the sweeter, but history is history and it would be nice to think that we might be mature enough by now to deal with all aspects of our deep and complex heritage.

Not that Dublin City Council would have anything like enough brass in the coffers to reinstate the horse, let alone the monarch.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 29, 2010 1:26 pm

Billy isn't going back; he'd block the QBC coming down Andrews Lane!

In terms of his removal you'd wonder was it a mob that thrashed it or if the provost of Trinity didn't want the horses rear end pointing at the college and had it removed as was the case with the Pizzaro statue the horse of which had its rear end facing the Cathedral on the Plaza de Armas in Lima.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:48 pm

PVC King wrote:Billy isn't going back; he'd block the QBC coming down Andrews Lane!


On that subject, Suffolk Street / [I think it's] Church Lane has to be one of the least suitable thoroughfares to route such a high volume of buses through. I understand the reasons for it, but in any re-planning of vehicular traffic on College Green, surely this bus channel has to go and the much wider bottom of Grafton Street [at the Hunky-Dory-Molly-Malone] reinstated as the north-south route in both directions.

Obviously, this would only work if east-west traffic on College Green is restricted to just public transport and then seriously reduced, or better still, confined to the Luas only.

Image

another vintage photograph of a clutter-free College Green
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:08 pm

It is Church Lane as you say; the (Lower) Grafton Street Angle could work very well but you would need to remove the bus stops on the East side and relocate them and completely declutter the west side of all statues, boxes and poles as the residual space would be quite tight if the road were widened even slightly. The stretch between Dawson Street and College Green is not that long but with a major volume of buses trams etc it is not a very pleasant environment; that said one would hope that post the Luas link up and interconnector that the bus network can be rejigged to stop the majority of buses using O'Connell St and or College Green; I see no need for say a 15 bus to go into college Green as it intersects with Luas at Harcourt stop; equally why does a 31 bus need to go into Marlborough Street as it intersects at Clontarf Dart with trains that go to Tara Street. The strategy with London's Oxford Street is to reduce bus traffic 10% year on year until people complain about there not being enough buses; the bus companies are as a result keeping capacity for peak times and not running virtually empty buses.


The benefits would be the ability to create a boulevard type pedestrianised street in Suffolk Street; i.e. a longer version of Harry Street, from a tourism point of view it would be convenient to come out of the tourist office in the church and have a pedestrianised environment to either access College Green down Church Lane or Grafton Street via Suffolk Street.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:51 pm

. . . . and then can we have Billy back?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 29, 2010 6:54 pm

If you replace Ulster Bank with some pastiche infill in the style of Dutch Billy gables it may be possible to have a dutch billy very close by!


As a site for a statue it would be very good; just not convinced that the subject matter proposed would be that popular. Brian O'Driscoll maybe?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:27 pm

Not immediately popular perhaps, but it could be a small but meaningful gesture of reconsiliation towards the people that everyone attempting to commemorate the 1916/1921 events have always said they want to the re-unite the country with.

When you think about it, we've allowed Orange-ism to become an 'Ulster' thing, when it was always, and uniquely, an 'Irish' thing.

It's just a thought, I'm not starting any facebook campaigns over it :)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:53 pm

I'm not convinced that the majority of Ulster folk would be that fussed, recognising the contribution of all Irish war dead from the Somme to Lebanon and doing so on Armistace day would really hit parity of esteem in a much more uniform way that they could buy into; celebrating 1916 in a mature manner reflecting that it was an episode led by poets and trade unionists who rebelled in the full knowledge that theirs was a blood sacrifice against a regime they found unjust and not an ethnic conflict would really display just how far we have come as a country.

Then you could truely say that sectarianism would have one last home in these islands; Glasgow albeit that the SFA aren't a million miles from erradicating the cancer from the football terraces there either.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby gunter » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:12 pm

PVC King wrote:I'm not convinced that the majority of Ulster folk would be that fussed,


They certainly wouldn't admit to being that fussed, but I think the message would still be received.

PVC King wrote: . . . . recognising the contribution of all Irish war dead from the Somme to Lebanon and doing so on Armistace day would really hit parity of esteem in a much more uniform way that they could buy into;


I agree that that would be a more meaningful action, [although I've never been totally comfortable with cultures wearing their war dead as collectable trophies] but in terms of Dublin doing something urban and monumental with all these nationalist centeraries coming up, we could do worse than include some civic gesture that begins to, not just acknowledge, but actually celebrate, our huge protestant heritage.

Billy, with all his contradictions, might be one way of doing that.

PVC King wrote:. . . celebrating 1916 in a mature manner reflecting that it was an episode led by poets and trade unionists who rebelled in the full knowledge that theirs was a blood sacrifice against a regime they found unjust and not an ethnic conflict would really display just how far we have come as a country.


We're drifting way off-topic here, but there's an argument that the men of 1916 were fully conscious that their actions would have profound sectarian consequences [they bought their guns after all from the same source that armed the Ulster Volunteers], but in their self-absorption, they chose not to deal with that.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby lauder » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:03 pm

gunter wrote:Not immediately popular perhaps, but it could be a small but meaningful gesture of reconsiliation towards the people that everyone attempting to commemorate the 1916/1921 events have always said they want to the re-unite the country with.

When you think about it, we've allowed Orange-ism to become an 'Ulster' thing, when it was always, and uniquely, an 'Irish' thing.

It's just a thought, I'm not starting any facebook campaigns over it :)


While I agree entirely with you gunter on the reinstatement of King Billy, you must remember our views are not the norm, and the majority of the public (riled up by tabloid press and republicans) would be set against it.

As a compromise, I would like to see a Cenotaph placed there as a focal gathering point for Remembrance Day ceremonies, similar to the one in London (and Cork). Post WW1 there was a Celtic cross in remembrance of the fallen and this was the focal point of Remembrance day ceremonies, with over 100,000 people gathering there in the 20's for the 11th.

We need more proactive in the urban and civic remembrance of the fallen in WW1 and 2. Everywhere one turns there are monuments to 1916, Civil War, etc. and more recently a disgusting memorial to the "Border Bombers" of the 1950's in Enniscorthy which was erected by a republican ground with the full approval of the town council.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Tayto » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:38 pm

lauder wrote:While I agree entirely with you gunter on the reinstatement of King Billy, you must remember our views are not the norm, and the majority of the public (riled up by tabloid press and republicans) would be set against it.


As a further gesture towards reconciliation and acknowledgement of tradition, notices of invitation to tender for specific consultancy services could be advertised in selected publications, requesting applicants to submit documentation detailing expertise in public marching and cultural expression, with a view to increasing the level of professionalism in the predicted civil protests directed against governmental performance. The establishment of a marching season would assist our ailing tourist industry and provide further economic opportunity to the traditional street-sellers of Dublin Town, particularly those with large stocks of as-yet unsold oranges.:D
.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby PVC King » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:57 pm

Rosnawlagh in Co Donegal has catered to that trade for many many years in a welcoming, almost carnival like atmosphere; sadly when one looks at the Love Ulster Fiasco of a few years ago it is clear that certain elements in Dublin haven't moved on yet. However we could probably get shed loads of cash from the EU to pour loads of concrete by the Boyne for the 'King Bill Experience' we could even grant the management concession to Donie Cassidy on condition that he vacates the Wax Museum from Foster Place to an annex at the Boyne it could be The President Billo Museum.

I'm with Lauder on the cenotaph idea; many good Irish people died in the WW's, Congo, Lebanon amongst other missions; we have a great tradition of protecting people be it the Belgians in WW1 or refusing to shoot spear wielding opponents in the Congo because they didn't have guns; that needs to be celebrated.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Tuborg » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:34 am

To be honest gunter. I think most people would rather see a big heap of excrement dumped on College Green than have a triumphalist monument to imperialism re-instated!

As a society I think we get too hung up about what others think of us. In more recent times the focus has shifted to a mild obsession about displaying "maturity". Mostly in terms of our attitude towards Britain. Im sure that most reasonably intelligent people will recognise that Britain has had a major influence on this country.

But then, there are also some elements who almost harbour a sense of guilt, shame or embarrassment over the ending of British rule here. As a result we see some rather pathetic attempts at pandering & appeasement taking place at times. By all means acknowledge the past but equally theres no need to go too far either. Just move forward and get on with it!

Aaaaaaaanyway. In this instance, instead of recreating some relic from the past. Would it not be better to fashion something that's representative of modern Ireland? Whatever that is.
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