Any news on the Ormond Hotel?

[arachide]

We just walked past and there was someone inside (5:30 p.m.), lights were on, and the Christmas wreathes on the front have been illuminated all holiday season. Please tell me that they've just decided to renovate, as the signs in all the windows say!

[OisinT]

Hate to resurrect an old thread, but been searching for news on this and didn't find much. Anyone know what is going on here?

[cgcsb]

The Ormonde Hotel is finished is it not?

[Devin]

Any news on the Ormond Hotel?

The good news is permission for its demolition has expired (it was granted permission on appeal in September 2004 and so expired five years later - last September - thus avoiding the new, CIF-prompted rule where developers can extend permissions without reapplying, which came into force this January). Appeal Ref. is PL29N.207208. The bad news is, well, I don't have to tell you what the bad news is.

Here is a picture of part of it in the early noughties when it was nicely painted and had timber sash windows and was open as hotel ...... before the owner tastelessly painted it white, filled it with PVC windows, got permission for its demolition, closed it up and basically let it sit there like a piece of shit.

[wearnicehats]

The good news is permission for its demolition has expired (it was granted permission on appeal in September 2004 and so expired five years later - last September - thus avoiding the new, CIF-prompted rule where developers can extend permissions without reapplying, which came into force this January). Appeal Ref. is PL29N.207208. The bad news is, well, I don't have to tell you what the bad news is.

Here is a picture of part of it in the early noughties when it was nicely painted and had timber sash windows and was open as hotel ...... before the owner tastelessly painted it white, filled it with PVC windows, got permission for its demolition, closed it up and basically let it sit there like a piece of shit.

I don't really see how it's good news that the permission has expired. No-one will reopen it as a hotel as it is. it might be good for a refurb and major extension but nothing will happen without another major planning application, AFT objection and appeal, ABP prevarication, another ABP grant with conditions. Unless NAMA do something or someone buys it the current owner is not in a position to do anything so it will continue to sit there "like a piece of shit" until it falls down anyway. It sits as a rotten tooth in the mouth of the hippopotamus of bureaucrazy (sic)

[OisinT]

Apparently with refurbishment it can have 160 rooms which isn't too bad. The hotel itself is apparently for sale at the moment for €7million (and it didn't sell, so it could probably be had for less).
I'd like to see it done up rather than demolished personally.

[wearnicehats]

Apparently with refurbishment it can have 160 rooms which isn't too bad. The hotel itself is apparently for sale at the moment for €7million (and it didn't sell, so it could probably be had for less).
I'd like to see it done up rather than demolished personally.

not sure where you get that from - the original hotel had 64 shabby, non-Bord F standard rooms and wasn't viable as a hotel in the longterm. The 160 room option was knock and replace. The article below stated 120 with refurb and extension

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/83647m-price-tag-on-the-former-ormond-hotel-1767662.html

Interestingly BM had it up for sale for €11m in 2008. Bet he wished he'd taken that now....

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2008/jul/20/mcgettigan-tipped-to-buy-ormond-hotel-in-dublin/

also discussed here

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3440&highlight=farewell+ormond+hotel

[OisinT]

not sure where you get that from - the original hotel had 64 shabby, non-Bord F standard rooms and wasn't viable as a hotel in the longterm. The 160 room option was knock and replace. The article below stated 120 with refurb and extension

http://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/83647m-price-tag-on-the-former-ormond-hotel-1767662.html

Interestingly BM had it up for sale for €11m in 2008. Bet he wished he'd taken that now....

http://www.tribune.ie/business/article/2008/jul/20/mcgettigan-tipped-to-buy-ormond-hotel-in-dublin/

also discussed here

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=3440&highlight=farewell+ormond+hotel

Still a 120 with refurb and extension isn't so much different really. Better than a knock and replace option imo.
I believe that is more than the Morrison down the road.

[wearnicehats]

Still a 120 with refurb and extension isn't so much different really. Better than a knock and replace option imo.
I believe that is more than the Morrison down the road.

given the size of the existing hotel on the site (use google earth to compare the site with that of the morrison) there's no way they could bring the existing rooms up to scratch and double the size of the building without going higher than the existing facade. I'm no fan of the scheme that was out there up until 2009 but, if they go down this route it with be an exercise in token stick-on-the-existing-facadism which does less to merit the quays that a knock-job. If you consider that, in reality, there's also no way that a viable commercial development could be contained within the height profile of the existing hotel then it's inevitably going to attract a proposal that is going to ABP (if the hotel can stand up that long)

[jdivision]

McNamara had bought in other buildings in and around the hotel to facilitate expansion IIRC

[Paul Clerkin]

yeah he owns a chunk of the property there. Isnt his own office behind it off Capel Street.

[wearnicehats]

in order to make a profit on a commercial venture the returns yielded by the redevelopment of a site have to exceed the cost to redevelop it. granny suck eggs I hear you cry but if you need to tie in a lot of additional sites / buildings from separate deals then the profitablity returns ratio gets effected. If a developer has to tie in other sites that are, in effect, washing their own faces financially, then the overall end picture needs to offer a substantially better yield than the development of the original single site. That's why developers who accumulate sites tend to build retail or office developments; there simply wouldn't be the return on a large scale hotel development on Ormond Quay