Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby shed » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:37 am

Major flaw for the underpass idea would be our buses being 2 storey...
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:45 am

Why not go even further? We could build a whole city underground if we wanted to! Toronto has a massive subterranean shopping centre and Edinburgh used to have large parts of itself underground so why can't Dublin be like that? It'd be a great way to get 20/30 storey buildings built in the middle of Town without aggravating the anti-high rise brigade.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby markpb » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:56 am

shed wrote:Major flaw for the underpass idea would be our buses being 2 storey...


How is that a problem? Have you never used an underpass in Ireland?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Yixian » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:18 am

Cathal Dunne wrote:Why not go even further? We could build a whole city underground if we wanted to! Toronto has a massive subterranean shopping centre and Edinburgh used to have large parts of itself underground so why can't Dublin be like that? It'd be a great way to get 20/30 storey buildings built in the middle of Town without aggravating the anti-high rise brigade.


Yeah... let's just aggravate the high-rish brigade :P

An underpass would be pretty ugly to be honest.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby markpb » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:28 am

Yixian wrote:An underpass would be pretty ugly to be honest.


It all depends on how it would be built, where it would be located and how tastefully it would integrate with the streetscape. Did you look at that one damcw posted earlier in Madrid? Stockholm is full of them and it's not an ugly city by any stretch. Here's an overpass and underpass together. There are prettier ones but I can't find them right now.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:05 pm

shed wrote:Major flaw for the underpass idea would be our buses being 2 storey...


This reminds me of the time the Port Tunnel was being built.
Half way through its construction somebody noticed that it wasn't big enough to accommodate the new generation of super cube trucks.
The governments solution - Ban the trucks altogether.

If an underpass beneath College Green is ever given the go ahead, perhaps someone on the job will get the tape measure out and suss out the height of double decker buses before they start digging.:)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Yixian » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:24 pm

markpb wrote:It all depends on how it would be built, where it would be located and how tastefully it would integrate with the streetscape. Did you look at that one damcw posted earlier in Madrid? Stockholm is full of them and it's not an ugly city by any stretch. Here's an overpass and underpass together. There are prettier ones but I can't find them right now.


Actually you're right the one in Madrid looks pretty good, I was thinking of some of the absolutely revolting underpasses you get here in the UK - they are just horrendous.

An underpass would have to be very elegant and subtle so as not to detract from the Plaza, the only problem is that the roads around there are so narrow, I wonder how it would look given that.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby damcw » Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:59 pm

Yixian wrote:Actually you're right the one in Madrid looks pretty good, I was thinking of some of the absolutely revolting underpasses you get here in the UK - they are just horrendous.

An underpass would have to be very elegant and subtle so as not to detract from the Plaza, the only problem is that the roads around there are so narrow, I wonder how it would look given that.


I totally agree with you.

If we could find some streets that could take the entrance/exit without destroying the area, then a pedestrian College Green the fantastic prize!
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:38 pm

Damn it, you double posting fiend!
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:41 pm

I really don't think that we should build a concrete tunnel, that not only make it simple for cars to choke our city with noxious fumes, but creates a large porthole in the ground that detracts hugely from the buildings around it..Even that "nice" picture of the one in Madrid looks out of place.I think an Irish built one would look fairly awful.The NRA seem to believe that bulky is beautiful.Seethe third picture here-

http://www.nra.ie/media/Media,4614,en.jpg

There are other roads in the city that the buses can use.I don't even understand why they clog the most attractive area of our city in the first place..Surely people could get where they want to go from Aungier street on the southside and the north lotts on the northside...Or something like that
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby CraigFay » Sat Mar 27, 2010 4:51 pm

Not an expert, but here's what I would propose.

Image
Image

Thisa still leaves College Street, Westmoreland and D'Olier Street as major bus routes. However, it would require buses that currently go south through College Green to divert down Townsend Street, towards a reversed Westland Row and on towards Merrion Square. I haven't yet worked out what route they would take going north. Maybe Sandwith Street by the Dart Underground entrance? Any suggestions?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Yixian » Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:29 pm

I'm hoping to start a mockup competition on the facebook group soon, but am having trouble producing a "blank canvas" pedestrianised College Green photo with which people can play with - does anyone here have superior Photoshop skills that might be able to help with that?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby damcw » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:38 am

CraigFay wrote:Thisa still leaves College Street, Westmoreland and D'Olier Street as major bus routes. However, it would require buses that currently go south through College Green to divert down Townsend Street, towards a reversed Westland Row and on towards Merrion Square. I haven't yet worked out what route they would take going north. Maybe Sandwith Street by the Dart Underground entrance? Any suggestions?


Could a redeveloped Hawkins House area replace Nassau Street as the current bus hub? Hawkins House will be close to the O'Connell St metro north station, the proposed connection of the 2 luas lines, and Tara St Dart station. Just a thought.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:49 am

damcw wrote:Could a redeveloped Hawkins House area replace Nassau Street as the current bus hub? Hawkins House will be close to the O'Connell St metro north station, the proposed connection of the 2 luas lines, and Tara St Dart station. Just a thought.


Now there is a good idea !
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby johnglas » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:45 pm

Or, more simply, why do you need a bus 'hub' in the center at all? Buses should go through the centre, not have it as a terminal destination (i.e. no or very little idle time in the centre).
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby cgcsb » Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:47 pm

I would prefere if busses could continue to use the green, sharing with luas and the Lucan Line terminating on College Green doesn't appeal to me, it should continue down Pearse st offering passangers connections to Pearse st station as well as serving the south docks, ringsend and Irishtown areas. The Lucan line in general is a joke, and needs to be rethought and rerouted.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:45 pm

CraigFay wrote:Not an expert, but here's what I would propose.

Image
Image

Thisa still leaves College Street, Westmoreland and D'Olier Street as major bus routes. However, it would require buses that currently go south through College Green to divert down Townsend Street, towards a reversed Westland Row and on towards Merrion Square. I haven't yet worked out what route they would take going north. Maybe Sandwith Street by the Dart Underground entrance? Any suggestions?


Would that not leave a large unsightly portal right in front of the Houses of Parliament?
I still don't understand why the buses HAVE to terminate in college green..Bring them through town via another route, terminating outside of the city center.

If a pedestrianised college green is wanted by 2016, a tunnel is not the way to do it.
How long did it take for the port tunnel to get through planning and be built?

Perhaps a tunnel could work if there was a longer time time to do it.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby CraigFay » Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:04 pm

EIA340600 wrote:Would that not leave a large unsightly portal right in front of the Houses of Parliament?
I still don't understand why the buses HAVE to terminate in college green..Bring them through town via another route, terminating outside of the city center.

If a pedestrianised college green is wanted by 2016, a tunnel is not the way to do it.
How long did it take for the port tunnel to get through planning and be built?

Perhaps a tunnel could work if there was a longer time time to do it.


I didn't suggest a tunnel :confused:
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby damcw » Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:30 pm

johnglas wrote:Or, more simply, why do you need a bus 'hub' in the center at all? Buses should go through the centre, not have it as a terminal destination (i.e. no or very little idle time in the centre).


Sorry if I caused confusion!

I didn't mean redevelop Hawkins House as a bus station for routes to terminate at, instead I meant moving all the bus stops that are currently on Nassau Street (dozens of bus routes stop here) to outside Hawkins House which would allow the buses to take a new route out of the city centre (via Townsend Street) as suggested by Craig. This way, we wouldn't have thousands of Buses needing to use the "pedestrianised" College Green, and my previous tunnel suggestion could be avoided.

It also puts the dozens of bus routes in close proximity to the Luas, Metro North and DART stops that are planned.


EIA340600 wrote:Would that not leave a large unsightly portal right in front of the Houses of Parliament?
I still don't understand why the buses HAVE to terminate in college green..Bring them through town via another route, terminating outside of the city center.

If a pedestrianised college green is wanted by 2016, a tunnel is not the way to do it.
How long did it take for the port tunnel to get through planning and be built?

Perhaps a tunnel could work if there was a longer time time to do it.


In fairness, at first I also thought it was a map of tunnel entrances, but Craig's map is of the planned Luas lines and stops.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby johnglas » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:14 pm

damcw: pesky foreigner - just ignore me! (But I think the real problem is the attitude of Dublin Bus.)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby pulp » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:52 am

yep totally agree, what most people fail to realise is that Dublin is choked with a wall of Dublin Buses. Unfortuneatly i have to drive down the quays a couple of times a week (when id dont take the train and luas) and im constantly amazed as the amount of buses nearly empty and the vast majority of them parked.

1) run all buses through the city and terminate each end as Irish Rail plan to do witht their 2 lines.
2) get them away from the central core of O Connell street, westmoreland street and Nassau street.

Result - pedestrianise the core, faster, quicker buses, access to more of the city, less road space used up, less diesel used, less pollution.

Downside - bus drivers cant go for coffee en masses together.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:54 pm

CraigFay wrote:I didn't suggest a tunnel :confused:


Ooops..Sorry about that Craig.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:53 pm

pulp wrote:1) run all buses through the city and terminate at each end as Irish Rail plan to do with their 2 lines.

2) get them away from the central core of O Connell street, Westmoreland street and Nassau street.


It would take decades for such a common sense approach to filter through to those who run Dublin Bus.

Not to mention the millions it would cost to pay all the staff their disturbance money in the wake of such drastic changes to their coffee break routine.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby cgcsb » Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:31 pm

EIA340600 wrote:Would that not leave a large unsightly portal right in front of the Houses of Parliament?
I still don't understand why the buses HAVE to terminate in college green..Bring them through town via another route, terminating outside of the city center.


currently, there are no busses terminating services on College Green.

EIA340600 wrote:If a pedestrianised college green is wanted by 2016, a tunnel is not the way to do it.
How long did it take for the port tunnel to get through planning and be built?

It took 6 years.
EIA340600 wrote:Perhaps a tunnel could work if there was a longer time time to do it.

we have all the time in the world, it is not a critical situation.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby forrestreid » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:24 am

johnglas wrote:Or, more simply, why do you need a bus 'hub' in the center at all? Buses should go through the centre, not have it as a terminal destination (i.e. no or very little idle time in the centre).



Part of the problem is that Dublin City Centre does not have any PROPER city bus terminals (and by the way at least 50% of Dublin buses go through the city centre, the problem is that as the city centre is such a popular stopping point that through buses spend nearly as much time stopped in the city centre as one that terminate there because they are emptying out and refilling)


What Dublin needs is a proper BUS TERMINUS (in a big building) both north and south of the Liffey.

The Northside buses could terminate at Parnell Street and the Southside buses could terminate somewhere around St.Stephens Green.

There could be small "City Imp" style buses that radiate out from each bus terminus and in through through the city centre and over to the other terminus.
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