Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby pulp » Fri Mar 19, 2010 5:33 pm

Have you ever tried crossing Westmoreland street? A wall of buses?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby damcw » Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:58 pm

If we could pedestrianise College green, it would be a massive improvement to the city.

In Madrid they've tunnelled a road beneath the plaza infront of the Royal Palace. It's only about 300m long and the entrance isn't very intrusive.

See it here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.415867,-3.713383&num=1&t=k&sll=40.416691,-3.700345&sspn=0.272119,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=40.41599,-3.713218&spn=0.00096,0.002411&z=19
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby EIA340600 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:33 pm

rumpelstiltskin wrote:I'd suggest pedestrianizing everything between High St/Patrick St., Kevin St., Dawson St., and the Quays. Phase one of a long-term plan to pedestrianize everything between the Canals, replacing cars with rail and trams. Christchurch and College Green become city squares, and Dame Street linking them becomes a long pedestrianized centre of focus in Dublin, like the Royal Mile in Edinburgh.


Here, Here!!!
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:09 pm

damcw wrote:If we could pedestrianise College green, it would be a massive improvement to the city.

In Madrid they've tunnelled a road beneath the plaza infront of the Royal Palace. It's only about 300m long and the entrance isn't very intrusive.

See it here: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.415867,-3.713383&num=1&t=k&sll=40.416691,-3.700345&sspn=0.272119,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=40.41599,-3.713218&spn=0.00096,0.002411&z=19

Yeah, that's actually a pretty good idea.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby notjim » Sat Mar 20, 2010 9:56 pm

No it's not.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby missarchi » Sat Mar 20, 2010 11:32 pm

underground car park is an option as per other thread whether this is desirable is another question.

http://architecturelab.net/2010/03/15/place-de-la-republique-proposal-by-mateo-arquitectura/
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:15 am

notjim wrote:No it's not.


Why not ?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:06 am

Global Citizen wrote:Why not ?


While that looks ok from the air, when you're there you just get the impression of a bunch of motorways and concrete structures all over the place. It's really unpleasant, and would look a lot worse in an Irish climate. We need to be getting rid of traffic, not building huge ugly concrete things which cut up and uglify the public realm.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby notjim » Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:49 pm

Global Citizen wrote:Why not ?


It is completely wrong approach, it's arseways nonsense: it conceptualizes the city as a series of heritage or architectural set-pieces linked by expensive and destructive pieces of traffic infrastructure: Dublin-land, now easier to enter! We need to think about the city, the whole city, the whole historic fabric, the whole issue of how people live and work in the city and have faith that when we sort that out, or at least improve that, a College Green civic space, free, or at least un-hindered, by traffic will emerge.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:42 pm

notjim wrote:It is completely wrong approach, it's arseways nonsense: it conceptualizes the city as a series of heritage or architectural set-pieces linked by expensive and destructive pieces of traffic infrastructure: Dublin-land, now easier to enter! We need to think about the city, the whole city, the whole historic fabric, the whole issue of how people live and work in the city and have faith that when we sort that out, or at least improve that, a College Green civic space, free, or at least un-hindered, by traffic will emerge.

You either don't live in Dublin or you don't drive. For some, the option to not drive doesn't exist and ease of navigation in the city is important. Sorry, the car has been invented and roads have been built - if we want to reclaim the heritage and concept of how people live and work it must be done in harmony with the automobile and traffic solutions other than "drive around it" need to be worked out.

Just because you don't think it's a good idea, doesn't mean that it isn't a conceptual start to the right idea. You don't seriously believe that people come up with anything perfectly on the first go?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby notjim » Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:58 pm

You see what I mean, scratch one of these make-College-Green-special people and they start preaching the need to build the city around sub-urban commuters!
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:25 pm

I'm actually an urban commuter my main commute is from the Docklands to Church St. but I cannot take public transportation.
You seem to think that to make anything better you just need to ban the car. I'm saying why can't we find a solution that makes the city better without destroying functionality of city centre.

So which is it, don't live in Dublin or don't drive?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby notjim » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:29 pm

* walks away whistling *
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby alonso » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:39 pm

OisinT wrote:I'm actually an urban commuter my main commute is from the Docklands to Church St. but I cannot take public transportation.
You seem to think that to make anything better you just need to ban the car. I'm saying why can't we find a solution that makes the city better without destroying functionality of city centre.

So which is it, don't live in Dublin or don't drive?


Do you drive from Docklands to Church St? I presume you need the car for your work then? No bike? And it couldn't be more than a half hour walk?
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:42 pm

notjim wrote:* walks away whistling *

I'll take it neither.

alonso wrote:Do you drive from Docklands to Church St? I presume you need the car for your work then? No bike? And it couldn't be more than a half hour walk?

I don't need the car for work, but there are days I have literally 2 or 3 large boxes filled with binders and paperwork. (most days actually) I used to walk/bus everywhere and I still do if I'm going anywhere besides work.
I definitely think that city centre ought to be more geared for pedestrians and mass transit, but just to say "ban the car" totally is a bit excessive. Pedestrianising College Green would be fantastic for the city, but needs to include a way to keep traffic flowing
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby alonso » Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:44 pm

Hmmm lots of files on the way to Church st? Sounds like we have a legal eagle here on Archiseek ;)

Anyway yeh I don't agree that we can ban the car from a massive swathe of the city centre but there's ways to make College Green car free. There'll have to be. It's going to be dug up at some stage.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:14 am

alonso wrote:Hmmm lots of files on the way to Church st? Sounds like we have a legal eagle here on Archiseek ;)

good guess ;)
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby damcw » Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:32 am

Even if you banned cars of College Green tomorrow, there is still the matter of the hundreds/thousands of Dublin Buses which use College Green in both directions. If you pedestrian college green without a tunnel like I linked to above, what the hell is going to happen to these buses?


rumpelstiltskin wrote:While that looks ok from the air, when you're there you just get the impression of a bunch of motorways and concrete structures all over the place. It's really unpleasant, and would look a lot worse in an Irish climate. We need to be getting rid of traffic, not building huge ugly concrete things which cut up and uglify the public realm.


Well I've been there, and it was raining, and the thing is barely noticable. Look at it in street view, if it took a couple of those to create an entirely pedestrianised college green, then I think that is a worthy trade off.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.415867,-3.713383&num=1&t=k&sll=40.416691,-3.700345&sspn=0.272119,0.512238&ie=UTF8&ll=40.41599,-3.713218&spn=0.00096,0.002411&z=19
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby pulp » Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:57 am

Dublin is in a fairly unique situation; the centre is made up of small narrow streets and roads but the only way for the vast majority of people to transit is via private car or bus; both using road space that was never designed for this level of traffic. This is an issue of lack of infrastructure and poor planning over the last 100 years. Most cities Dublins size even in far less developed countries have mass transit systems.

There are far too many cars and buses in the city centre but as things exist there is no alternative. We need a number of underground lines including the 2 already planned and possibly another north south from Navan Road via Heuston to Terenure/rathfarnham and possibly a West/East motorway tunnel; combine N4/N6/N7 west of Heuston going underground and surfacing around the Docklands but charge to incentivise people to use the Metro. Then we can pretty much pedestrianise, restrict traffic as much as we like.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby cgcsb » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:14 am

OisinT wrote:I'm actually an urban commuter my main commute is from the Docklands to Church St. but I cannot take public transportation.
You seem to think that to make anything better you just need to ban the car. I'm saying why can't we find a solution that makes the city better without destroying functionality of city centre.

So which is it, don't live in Dublin or don't drive?


Luas red line, Docklands to the Four Courts, or Smithfield, right around the corner from Church Street.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Frank Taylor » Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:25 pm

Image

I've used one of these: http://www.bikehod.com/bike-hod/index.html
and it works pretty well, clips off the bike and you can wheel it into your office.

If I were you I would also drive this journey because it's easier and more comfortable and convenient and because at the end of the day I am a lazy bastard.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby OisinT » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:17 pm

cgcsb wrote:Luas red line, Docklands to the Four Courts, or Smithfield, right around the corner from Church Street.

With 3+ boxes of files and books? I've taken the Luas many times when I don't have too much to carry. Realistically just bringing the court rules with me is a pain!
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby Global Citizen » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:18 pm

damcw wrote:
Well I've been there, and it was raining, and the thing is barely noticable. Look at it in street view, if it took a couple of those to create an entirely pedestrianised college green, then I think that is a worthy trade off.
[/url]


I'm with damcw on this one.
An underpass would be ideal under College Green.
Like the one mentioned in Madrid, similar tunnels work well in other cities.
Avenue du Général Lemmonier in Paris is invisible as you walk unhindered from The Tuilries to The Louvre.
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby weehamster » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:14 am

An underpass would be ideal under College Green.
Like the one mentioned in Madrid, similar tunnels work well in other cities.
Avenue du Général Lemmonier in Paris is invisible as you walk unhindered from The Tuilries to The Louvre.

I agree it would be ideal. Pity Metro North isn't deeper underground
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Re: Pedestrianise College Green for 2016

Postby spoil_sport » Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:29 am

"I agree it would be ideal. Pity Metro North isn't deeper underground"

But it is, someone correct me but AFAIK it is some 25m down under College Green

The underpass thing would be a good idea I think; yes, it would probably cost more than its worth in fiscal terms, and knowing Ireland it would cost twice that again and no one would think to do it in tandem with the metro and have to retrofit it costing even more money and the conservation nazis would get their knickers in a twist; but its good to think big, we need projects with more balls.
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