Disability Access Cert

Disability Access Cert

Postby DASL » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:16 am

Not really a planning issue but:
The Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2009 have been introduced with a new Disability Access Certificate requirement coming in to effect on 1st Jan 2010.

Does the fee of €800 apply to a building irrelative to the number of units it may contain?.

In a residential housing development, is it per €800 per detached house and the same for
a pair of semi’s as they are just one building, or will one Disability Access Cert cover the entire development?.

Any advice or comments gladly welcome.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby henno » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:25 am

i am under the impression that it is for new non-domestic builds. I need to find the relevant text.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby parka » Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:55 am

DAC's are very unclear and there is very little information on what is actually required. I far as I can see they don't differentiate between building types.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby DASL » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:22 am

Thank you for the replies,

Link below to the amended regs if you fancy some light reading!.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Legislation/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,21091,en.pdf

Application form appears straight forward enough, but seems they can invalidate or request revised plans/info etc. Can’t find anything on time limits etc.

Must agree, can’t find any info or guidance either apart from the regs.

Anything one of the opinion that this is just another revenue collecting exercise.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby henno » Tue Oct 13, 2009 11:50 am

Confirmed by DOE by phone that these are regulations which are amendments and 'add-ons' to the original building control regulations. In the original regulations there is a differentiation between domestic and non-domestic builds, so the DAC will be required for buildings which would also require FSC according to the same regulations. Obviously, apartment blocks require the certificate. the certificate is given to the whole building and not just the individual units.

As Part M itself isnt a hugely technical document, i would foresee applications for DACs to be much simpler than FSC applications. I would also like to note that for best possible design for persons with disabilities designers should refer to the Irish Wheelchair Associations "Access Guidelines" document.

http://www.iwa.ie/Docs/IWA-Access-Guidelines-Edition-1.pdf
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby parka » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:39 pm

DASL wrote:Application form appears straight forward enough, but seems they can invalidate or request revised plans/info etc. Can’t find anything on time limits etc.


The application form says nothing about what they actually require.

One instance that comes to mind is how will you describe the use of tonal contrast within a building.
Also, what about upgrade works to an existing building, will there be a requirement to introduce lifts etc.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby parka » Tue Oct 13, 2009 12:40 pm

henno wrote:As Part M itself isnt a hugely technical document, i would foresee applications for DACs to be much simpler than FSC applications. I would also like to note that for best possible design for persons with disabilities designers should refer to the Irish Wheelchair Associations "Access Guidelines" document.

http://www.iwa.ie/Docs/IWA-Access-Guidelines-Edition-1.pdf


I would of thought that BS8300 would be more effective. The IWA book is just guidelines.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby henno » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:13 pm

parka wrote:I would of thought that BS8300 would be more effective. The IWA book is just guidelines.



The IWA document has looked to BS83000 in many areas, but has gone above and beyond some of its minimum requirements to provide a 'best practise' document. It actually also references BS83000 2009.

see page 123 for its references and FI

12 References and Further Information

 Building for Everyone, National Disability Authority (2002).
 A Review of the Effectiveness of Part M of the Building Regulations, National Disability
Authority (2005).
 Building Regulations (2000), Technical Guidance Documents Part M, Department of
Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
 Proposed Amendments to Technical Guidance Document, Part M, to give Universal
Access to the Built Environment (August 2006), Irish Wheelchair Association.
 Access to and use of buildings, UK Part M Regulations, Office of the Deputy Prime
Minister.
 Building Lifetime Homes, Joseph Rowntree Foundation.
 Towards and Access Standard for Housing within the Building Code of Australia (April
2003), Australian Network for Universal Housing Design, discussion paper.
 Wheelchair Accessible Housing – Best Practice Guidance, Mayer of London, Greater
London Authority (September 2007).
 Wheelchair Homes Design Guidelines, South East London Housing Partnership and
London Borough of Greenwich, (2006).
 Building Regulations (2006), Technical Guidance Document B – Fire Safety, Department
of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
 Promoting Safe Egress and Evacuation for People with Disabilities, National Disability
Authority.
 Designing for Accessibility, The Centre for Accessible Environments & Riba Enterprises
(2004).
 International Best Practices in Universal Design, A Global Review, Canadian Human
Rights Commission, (March 2006).
 Design of Buildings and their Approaches to Meet the Needs of Disabled People, British
Standards 8300:2001 and BS8300:2009.
 Good Loo Design, The Centre for Accessible Environments, (2004).
 Removing Barriers to Health Care, A Guide for Health Professionals, The Center for
Universal Design and the North Carolina Office on Disability and Health.
 Architectural Heritage Protection, Guidelines for Planning Authorities, Department of the
Environment, Heritage and Local Government.
 Disability Access Provisions for Historic Buildings, Article by Robert Kent.
 Code of Practice, US Department of Justice, Civil Rights Division, Disability Rights
Section.
 Changing Places, Changing Places Consortium.
 Accessible Stadia – Sports Ground and Stadia Guide, The Football Stadia Improvement
Fund and the Football Licensing Authority.
123
Irish Wheelchair Association Access Guidelines
 The Green Guide – The Guide to Safety at Sports Grounds, (1997), The Football
Licensing Authority.
 IT Accessibility Guidelines, National Disability Authority.
 Access Handbook Template, (2005), National Disability Authority.
 Road and Street Design for All, (Draft Document), Kildare County Council.
 Accessibility Guidelines for Buildings and Facilities, Americans with Disabilities, Revised
Act 2002.
 Building Construction – Accessibility and Usability of the Built Environment, ISO
Committee Draft Document, (ISO/TC 59/SC 16N N60).
 Access for Disabled People, Sport England Design and Guidance Notes.
 Disability Act 2005 Draft Implementation Plan, Fingal County Council.
 Manual of Best Practice – A Guide to Including Disabled Children in Childcare and Play
Settings, Disability Equality Specialist Support Agency (DESSA).
 Accessibility Guidelines for Playgrounds, American with Disability Act 2002.



It is a highly commendable document in my opinion, and i feel the new revised Part M will draw on many of its aspect for regulatory purposes.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby missarchi » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:44 am

I admired the Irish reg's now they are reaching biblic proportions...:rolleyes:
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby henno » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:27 pm

missarchi wrote:I admired the Irish reg's now they are reaching biblic proportions...:rolleyes:


would you prefer a system with less regulatory standards?
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby parka » Wed Oct 14, 2009 1:32 pm

I find it worrying that people can't even comply with the current Part M.

The new Part M, while a step forward, is still out of date
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby onq » Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:07 pm

henno wrote:would you prefer a system with less regulatory standards?


Fewer standards does not imply lesser standards.
This current fiasco with DAC's is like giving the police more laws to work under when they don't even apply the existing gamut of legislation available to them.

This step is necessary because of the utterly ludicrous situation engendered by the self-certification regime we work under and a lack of independent oversight ensuring the regulations were complied with.

Independent assessment by pro-active Building Control Officers even up to the standards of the original Part M would have redressed the balance but the current mandatory inspection rate minimum of 12% is a joke.

So here we are with even more onerous legislation because people didn't apply Part M.

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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby Wild Bill » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:23 pm

I don't think we should kid ourselves that this has been brought in because people were not complying with Part M. I think the €800 fee adequately demonstrates the reason for the introduction of this particular piece of legislation, utter greed on the part of a cash hungry Prader Willi Syndrome government.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby BenK » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:47 pm

Does anyone know of the timeframe it will take to get a disability certificate? Is it 2 months like a fire cert? I've been trying to find out information on it but to no avail...
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:29 pm

yeah - about 8 weeks

you can email queries to buildingstandards@environ.ie. They might get back to you
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby Solo » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:08 pm

Hi,
Lodged my first DAC application today with 3 more lined up. Already know there will be problems as the individual in Dublin C.C. has designed an application form not in accordance with the regulations and will email it to you on request, however insisting on the applicant being the signatory and will only post the notice out to the applicant and not the agent. Has nowhere on form for agent details and insisting on applicant certifying drawings and that the drawings will be complied with.

Had to design my own form in compliance with regs as the DCC not on web. Fully expect to be invalidated by Building Control tyrant. Seems some of the old Bye-law inspectors are still around insisting on things their way or not at all regardless of what the regulations say. So be warned if applying to DCC Tyrant.

The fee of €800 for even small projects is obviously a revenue collection exercise and having paid through the nose our clients get incompetent, opinionated, tyrants instead of considered professionals performing a very well paid for function.

Another own Goal by the DOE & DCC
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby BenK » Mon Mar 15, 2010 2:22 pm

Cheers wearnicehats. Will be applying to Kildare County Council for one shortly; seems to be little or no info on the website about them and couldn't get through to anyone in Building Control so not anticipating it being a smooth process...
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby onq » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:00 am

Going to be great fun organising my first DAC.
Recently asked to do a change of use from a shop to a restaurant.
Hard enough to get a client to see the need for a fire cert and compliance with the H&S reqs.

Am I correct in thinking the term refers solely to "access" as in getting into a building.
Or does the Cert cover the full gamut of disabled persons requirements, i.e. contrasting floor coverings for steps and ramps, high resolution large notice writing for the partially sighted?

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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby Solo » Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:06 am

onq wrote:Going to be great fun organising my first DAC.
Recently asked to do a change of use from a shop to a restaurant.
Hard enough to get a client to see the need for a fire cert and compliance with the H&S reqs.

Am I correct in thinking the term refers solely to "access" as in getting into a building.
Or does the Cert cover the full gamut of disabled persons requirements, i.e. contrasting floor coverings for steps and ramps, high resolution large notice writing for the partially sighted?

ONQ.


On speaking to the DOE it appears that access means into/out of and moving around once in. So in time a check list will develop as with planning.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby onq » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:31 am

Solo wrote:On speaking to the DOE it appears that access means into/out of and moving around once in. So in time a check list will develop as with planning.


Thanks Solo, but in the meantime we'll have the usual situation, the civil servants in the DOE beign remote from what the public servants in the local authorities are doing.

I p[resume you noticed the phrase "full set of working drawings" on some of the application forms?

I would have thought that a Fire Cert level of information would not suffice for a FC regularisation or DA application.

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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:25 pm

Solo wrote:On speaking to the DOE it appears that access means into/out of and moving around once in. So in time a check list will develop as with planning.


There is a checklist

What you do is take each and every section and clause in Part M and demonstrate compliance with it for the type of building you have. The ambiguity is in how you demonstrate it ie do you say that your risers will be 150mm or do you have to submit a drawing of the stair

I was asked to do one on a one-off basis and declined because, frankly, it's a shedload of work for what people are prepared to pay. If part of an overall "concept to site" services package I do make sure that it's included in the appointment letter and billed as a separate cost

It is, however, a very useful and informative design tool and, if nothing else, will make architects pay more than lip service to universal access.
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby BenK » Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:50 pm

Below is a link to the Fingal County Council web site who at least have something on DACs. It is still a bit ambiguous but it's something...

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/BuildingControlandFireSafetySection/DisabilityAccessCertificate/
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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby onq » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:00 am

Cheers guys.

Something to go on.

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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby onq » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:03 am

BTW we had a long chat to the nice many in DlrCoCo before Christmas 2009 about how this was to be administered - was it part of building control or part of the planning set up - no one had told him by then.

DlrCoCo are usually on the ball - makes you wonder how the rest will fare.

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Re: Disability Access Cert

Postby parka » Wed Mar 17, 2010 3:01 pm

onq wrote:Or does the Cert cover the full gamut of disabled persons requirements, i.e. contrasting floor coverings for steps and ramps, high resolution large notice writing for the partially sighted?

ONQ.


While the DAC's does not say it, You have to show how you are going to provide provisions for all types of disabilities and not just just access and people movement.(Otherwise you'll end up with a set of conditions telling you to to provide them)

While Part M does not make reference to it, you still need to consider tonal contrast, accessible toilet / changing facilities, hearing enhancement systems, type of floor surfaces.

What you are providing is an Access Statement as to how people with disabilities will use the building and what provisions have been provided to ensure they use the building without the assistance of others.
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