Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

My choice for placing a new Abbey Theatre

Same site on Abbey Street
36
14%
GPO, O'Connell Street
60
23%
Carlton Cinema, O'Connell Street
94
36%
George's Dock, Docklands
16
6%
Site of Hawkins House
46
18%
Other
8
3%
 
Total votes : 260

Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby fergalr » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:20 am

rumpelstiltskin wrote:Eden Quay shouldn't be a shithole, but you seem to be suggesting that it should be left as it is instead of improved. There needs to be a master plan for the entire stretch of quays on both sides from O'Connell Bridge to the Customs House, ideally involving pedestrianising the whole stretch. A new Abbey Theatre would be an ideal contribution to this process of improvement.


Yeah some places are always going to be shitholes. Especially one with a dead string of shopfronts and a transient population of bus commuters who only come to Eden Quay to leave it.
And its hinterland? The equally dead Lower Abbey St and Lower Marlborough St.

Can we also move on from the notion that theatres are forums where masses of the People come to congregate and watch fine acting? It's primarily an elitist activity. More people use the GPO Arcade than would ever use the Abbey Theatre on the same site.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby gunter » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:42 am

Good old Bolton Street:)

Image

In this one, the white cardboard bit at the front is the GPO, We know this because the great portico of six giant ionic columns are here represented by six tiny round pencil circles . . . . in time honoured architecture-student fashion.

Beyond that, a couple of Laurel and Hardy theatres are stacked in to establish that the proposed Abbey + Peacock transplant works.

As a provocative challenge to architecture students, the idea has a lot of merit, [how did the crits go??] it's just in actual reality that you'd hope someone has the smarts to call stop.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby fergalr » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:47 am

gunter wrote:
Image


So the National Theatre will open onto Henry St?? Maybe we could sell the name for advertising too. The Debenhams Abbey Theatre, for example.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby gunter » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:17 am

Image

This an interesting one proposed for the George's Dock site.

It points up the main problem with this location: the fact that there isn't an actual site here, without squeezing the new building up against the office blocks of the IFSC, or filling in the dock, as here.

Breaking the massing up into individual components and making the theatre complex link across what would effectively be a canal, is a decent idea, but the loss of an existing functioning social space and a successful festival location, would be too high a price to pay and the residue of space around the perimeter would probably have not much amenity value. Also the individual blocks look a bit uninspired.

Still it's a good idea, IMO
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:43 am

fergalr wrote:Yeah some places are always going to be shitholes. Especially one with a dead string of shopfronts and a transient population of bus commuters who only come to Eden Quay to leave it.
And its hinterland? The equally dead Lower Abbey St and Lower Marlborough St.

Can we also move on from the notion that theatres are forums where masses of the People come to congregate and watch fine acting? It's primarily an elitist activity. More people use the GPO Arcade than would ever use the Abbey Theatre on the same site.


Does anyone else find it depressing that on a planning forum, a series of blocks in the dead centre of our capital city are described as being eternal shitholes? It's fine if it's way out somewhere, but to suggest that Eden Quay is condemned to eternal shittiness is absurd. This is right next to O'Connell St, visible from O'Connell Bridge. Are you nuts? If we give up on that we might as well give up on Dublin.

And if you want to get rid of the drug dealers, then moving the Abbey Theatre there seems like a good way to do it. DCC isn't going to be happy with American tourists walking out of the Abbey to see junkies hanging around.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby missarchi » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:51 am

I found a solution that will get used more use and not be elite indoor paintball...

http://www.skirmish.ie/

I still think GPO has potential it all comes down to scale... But I would rather dig deeper
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby missarchi » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:57 am

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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby kevin dillon » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:54 am

Just to return to Eden Quay. Let's up the quays.

A new Abbey can address the river and doesn't have to damage the protected Georgian building at the junction of Marlbough st/ Eden Quay. This building can be carefully integrated into the design. The 'new' architecture can sit overhead maybe and behind (this corner could carry another floor or two or a fly tower element) Maybe take fosters 'skycatcher' off the clarance and pop it over this protected structure.. He He He. (i'm only half joking about the skycatcher - a bit of quality new into protected buildings can work sometimes)

In any case the the new architecture can spring onto the quays through the space occupied by the two 2story buildings to the east which could surely be sacrificed.

I think on balance it's always best to retain as much of the current building stock as possible. So i'd be glad if the protected corner building was retained. If anyone wants an example of how it could work just look at how architects O'Donnell and Tuomey dealt with the irish film centre or their new proposal for the new entrance to Trinity at the Pearse St/ Moss street junction.

Via the quays - our primary set piece.
Now i 'm going off this thread so apologies. Another issue i think essential to the quality of the quays is the old loopline bridge. (We all must accept that it is unrealistic to hope for it's removal) But does any engineer type out there know if it is possible to reduce the the visual impact/ bulk of the loop line bridge? The rectangular latticed box of steel. I really like the bridge but prefer the view of the custom house.

I am aware of the glass and steel curve proposal by some design firm over 10 years ago but think it was a bit cheap and obvious and would have drawn a lot of attention to its dominant curve. Is a more visually minimalised approach possible. To open up the view towards the custom house and docklands as much as we can?.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby GhostWriter » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:12 pm

Firstly apologies, yes I meant Portico and not the arcade (behind).
Secondly the projects are student projects and some of the images are study models (not final designs)
Thirdly they are Student projects, not real since in the space of 6 or 9 weeks it is unlikely to deal with everything.
Fourthly I should have said that the feedback on the 4 sites based on the same brief was:
Carlton - too small
Abbey - possible but required significant compromises in operation
Georges's Dock - too big, solutions lacked compactness and had to deal with 4 different contexts, not ulimately successful
GPO - even with cultural and historical concerns offered a challenging but potentially rewarding intervention.

It should be noted that theatres generally have a lot of blank facades. If they are to make a contribution to the city they have to be mixed with other complimentary uses. If you want an illustration in this look at the side and rear elevations to the National Conference Centre.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby Devin » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:41 pm

Carlton site would still be the best place - if shopping does not pick back up to previous levels the large department store pegged for behind the Carlton facade is not going to be a sucess .. maybe Abbey can be worked in instead ..

Would hate to see it put in the GPO.

Hawkins House site is no use as it needs to stay north of the river.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby lightswitch » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:48 pm

Completely agree Devin, I would hate to see the Abbey Theatre squeezed into the GPO.

Why cant we leave the GPO on O'Connell St to stand proudly as she is?
Surely we need a central post office in the city centre, the GPO serves as a fine public building with enough heritage and history to survive into the future. Perhaps it could be adjusted or developed for enhanced new public services. However in my view the fabric of the building and its context should largely be protected, conserved and unchanged for future generations to enjoy. Havent we ruined enough of our heritage already?

Having said that I completely recognise the important role of the Abbey theatre in the development of modern Ireland, in that context I support a modern design for a new Abbey, just not at the expense of a national treasure. God knows there are alot of derelict sites throughout the north inner city which would benefit from such a scheme.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby fergalr » Fri Dec 18, 2009 4:56 pm

Devin wrote:
Hawkins House site is no use as it needs to stay north of the river.


Why? Most of the people who attend it are from the southside.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby foremanjoe » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:09 pm

fergalr wrote:Why? Most of the people who attend it are from the southside.


Nice bit of baiting there fergalr, no doubt you'll hook a few on that one.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby kevin dillon » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:56 pm

Good point Devin, shopping space may be over supplied so the proposed john lewis and friends may be shelved leaving loads of space behind the old carlton facade. Of course i still think i would prefer Eden Quay but please leave the GPO alone.... its not broke so don't fix it etc.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby missarchi » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:15 am

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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:23 pm

Devin wrote:.

Hawkins House site is no use as it needs to stay north of the river.


curious. why?
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby d_d_dallas » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:42 pm

Indeed, Bertie is gone, so no prerequisite for a certain constituency...
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby Global Citizen » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:20 pm

As I'm not living in Dublin its largely immaterial to me what side of the river The Abbey sits. However, as most of Dublin's cultural institutions are already located south of the Liffey, I think it's important that those already situated north of the river should remain there. This has nothing to do with politics or engendering a silly north v south debate. It is simply a call to maintain some degree of balance on both sides of the Liffey.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby lostexpectation » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:49 pm

why not put the central library there? thus remain a point of information, you keep a small post office and then a museum too, still can't see ambassador being big enough
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby fergalr » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:52 pm

lostexpectation wrote:why not put the central library there? thus remain a point of information, you keep a small post office and the a museum too, still can't see ambassador being big enough


Jesus, I'd completely forgotten about the library! I'm guessing the Council has as well.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:56 pm

nice idea - much as i love the idea of the round room in the ambassador as a great reading room for a library - the gpo would have more than enough room to do a 1916 museum / post office / central library
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:57 pm

d_d_dallas wrote:Indeed, Bertie is gone, so no prerequisite for a certain constituency...


if you really think so, you dont need to join that facebook group - keep bertie out of the aras
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby GrahamH » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:02 am

Absolutely - won't somebody think of the wallpaper!
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby Devin » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:14 am

wearnicehats wrote:curious. why?
Cross between history & the northside desparetley needing to hang on to any institutions of cultural value it has.
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Re: Abbey Theatre to be located in the GPO

Postby missarchi » Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:19 am

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