Limerick Transport

Re: Limerick Transport

Postby garrettreil » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:09 pm

CologneMike wrote:I wonder what does Garrett Reil think of this sign (nearby to Limerick College of Art and Design)?

Visitors entering the city would nearly have to pull up first at this sign to read it :rolleyes: before deciding to get into the proper lane?

Maybe too much detailed information displayed on the right-hand-side of it?

  • City Centre, M20, N69 (Left Lane)
  • N18, Airport, LIT College, Thomond Park, Castle (Right Lane)

Thanks CologneMike, Garrett here. Do you really need me to answer that! You're right, that type of sign treatment brings tears to my eyes. Unfortunately it's not the only sign in the country that requires pedestrian pace to take in.

On a more serious note, my design research is more concerned with future-proofing our signs for an ageing population, improving the sign design in general (for all road users), and delivering a dual-language solution that actually meets the government's guidelines and regulations (ie. does not sacrifice the legibility of either language). I looked at international research and practise and did initial testing which does suggest drivers are receptive.

The research was conducted with the National College of Art & Design in Dublin, rather than LSAD. Incidentally, LSAD design department was in the Granary in the days when I attended. and that bridge was not yet a sketch!

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:37 pm

CologneMike wrote:I can’t say that I’m too impressed to see the Rossbrien Motorway Overbridge peaking like that as it crosses over the M20 thus creating in my opinion an unnecessary dip that would hide the view of traffic in front of oneself. :(

I can’t make out where exactly does the Galway-Bound-Traffic coming from the City will merge with the M7.

  • On the peak?
  • 200m after the peak?
  • Or will it merge first with the Cork traffic first and then with the M7?


I don't think that dip is going to be too much of a problem really, I certainly hope it won't anyway! :o To me it looks more like a gentle, graduated slope, so sightlines shouldn't be an issue.

The road is obviously on an embankment here to enable it to cross over the M20. It also passes over both the Greenfields Road and Ballinacurra Creek almost immediately afterwards so the road is on a pretty similar allignment over the course of this stretch.

As for the merging point for Galway traffic. I reckon the merge lane will end around 100 metres or thereabouts after the bridge, not too far before the second westbound on slip begins to merge with the M7 mainline.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Oct 22, 2009 2:48 pm

garrettreil wrote:. . . . . . . my design research is more concerned with future-proofing our signs for an ageing population, improving the sign design in general (for all road users), and delivering a dual-language solution that actually meets the government's guidelines and regulations (ie. does not sacrifice the legibility of either language).


Garrett, a lot of interesting reading there on your site.

Displaying traffic information on a road-sign in a concise form definitely requires a bit of thought and good design, try to communicate it in dual-language written form is a bit trickier.

I must watch out the next time I’m passing through Wales as to how our Celtic Cousins have dealt with this issue of dual-language.

In my part of the woods the first traffic sign when entering the country is this. It is understandable to all languages.

Do we have a complete harmonisation of road sign design in place for Europe yet?

For example, many years ago I did not fully appreciate the difference between these two signs when I first confronted them in my neighbourhood, :rolleyes: as they were not part of the Irish set of signs when I did my driving licence.

Image Image

I have to date yet to see them in Ireland (Republic)?

Tuborg wrote:I don't think that dip is going to be too much of a problem really, I certainly hope it won't anyway! :o To me it looks more like a gentle, graduated slope, so sightlines shouldn't be an issue.


I hope so too that the sightlines are not impaired here, then when factors like high speed vehicles braking for low speed merging ones, coupled with poor weather visibility (rain spray) or sunsets (westbound) could make it an unfortunate flash point.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby garrettreil » Fri Oct 23, 2009 2:52 pm

CologneMike wrote:Garrett, a lot of interesting reading there on your site.

Displaying traffic information on a road-sign in a concise form definitely requires a bit of thought and good design, try to communicate it in dual-language written form is a bit trickier.

I must watch out the next time I’m passing through Wales as to how our Celtic Cousins have dealt with this issue of dual-language.

Thanks Mike

There's a Welsh sign pictured on my site, not a great photo, but you'll get the idea (if I get a minute I'll post a picture here). They use the British Transport type but with no differentiation between the languages. This pleases some language purists but I my initial tests with Irish road users the Welsh style sign design (with Irish place names) fared very badly, even with Irish language users. Almost 80% of users preferred the colour-differentiation for clarity.


CologneMike wrote:In my part of the woods the first traffic sign when entering the country is this. It is understandable to all languages.

CologneMike wrote:Do we have a complete harmonisation of road sign design in place for Europe yet?

Wow, there's an idea! But can you see the French adopting a German design, or vice versa? Perhaps we could sell them an Irish solution and use 'neutrality' to our benefit? First we'd have to convince them of Ireland's design credentials, and I fear we have a way to go.

CologneMike wrote:For example, many years ago I did not fully appreciate the difference between these two signs when I first confronted them in my neighbourhood, :rolleyes: as they were not part of the Irish set of signs when I did my driving licence.

Image Image

I have to date yet to see them in Ireland (Republic)?

There's something similar on the approach to a narrow bridge near me, and I certainly remember similar priority signs on London's side-streets (where Ii learned to drive). Ours are, of course, in the yellow diamond design used in the US/Australia/New-world style as opposed to any European model, but that's another story!

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:56 am

Rumour flying around here that a section of the new road from Rosbrien to Dock Road is opening today, anybody know if there's any truth in this?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:11 pm

foinse wrote:Rumour flying around here that a section of the new road from Rosbrien to Dock Road is opening today, anybody know if there's any truth in this?


I drove through this today just as the new layout came into operation. Basically if you're heading in on the M20 and you want to go into town, you are now diverted up onto the new bridge via the westbound slip road. Traffic is then diverted across the opposite carriageway and onto another slip that brings you down to the mini roundabout on the Carew Park Link.

Then this evening as I was heading out, the new loop from the M20 to the M7 was open to traffic. It seems they can now plough ahead with removing the majority of the existing roundabout and get cracking on the Galway to Cork slip road.

Anyone heading out that way in the next while would want to take it handy though, because there were a fair share of drivers today who didn't have a clue where they were going. Id say there's bound to be a few mishaps over the next few days!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:18 pm


Labour unveils plans to develop suburban tram system (Irish Examiner)

By Jimmy Woulfe Mid-West Correspondent

PLANS were unveiled yesterday to develop Limerick as a rail-friendly city with its own suburban tram system linking city centre streets.

The Labour Party proposals are aimed at preparing Limerick as a national rail network hub.

Launching the blueprint, Deputy Jan O’Sullivan said Limerick had fallen behind Galway and Cork in preparing for a new era of rail travel.

She envisaged a new era would inevitably emerge when the recession ends and funds for improved travel became available.

"Limerick has not got off the ground yet in this regard and we have to put plans in place now so we will be prepared for future funding," she said.

The plan proposes eight automated rail platforms at a number of disused stations circling the city at locations such as Moyross, Castleconnell, Raheen, Mungret and Dooradoyle.

Ms O’Sullivan, the party’s health spokesperson, said: "This service would enable commuters from a huge area on that side of Limerick to drive to that station for park and ride to complete their journey within the city.

"We envisage trams would be used which would connect the city centre in the same way as the Luas.

"New modern trams which can operate on rail lines and street tracks offer huge opportunities for our city. Limerick into the future must become the hub of a modern commuter network that connects communities and moves people in a safe, reliable, efficient manner that is environmentally friendly."

On the broader travel front, the Labour plan envisages Limerick commanding a key strategic position in the national rail network.

Cllr Joe Leddin said: "Limerick has the potential to become a significant rail hub connecting to other cities such as Cork, Galway and the many towns in between. If, as a region, we are to remain competitive and attractive for companies to locate here then we must work together to integrate our transport infrastructure.

"The utilisation of our regional rail network as part of the ongoing development of infrastructure in the region is essential."

He added: "With the city and county councils currently preparing their new six-year development plans, I would urge councillors to protect existing rail lines and not allow them to be dismantled. We can see the benefits already for people living in areas such as Birdhill and Castleconnell who now have the option to travel to Limerick by rail as opposed to road."



Sounds great but unfortunately I fail to see how Limerick's low density suburbs will provide the numbers to make this viable.

We havent even got a decent bus service at the moment yet they're already proposing a new tram system!:confused:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:39 am

Tuborg wrote:Sounds great but unfortunately I fail to see how Limerick's low density suburbs will provide the numbers to make this viable.

We havent even got a decent bus service at the moment yet they're already proposing a new tram system!:confused:



Well the infrastructure is there, so I don't see how it would do any harm having the facilties provided for commuters to use it and get out of their cars. Limerick has fantastic rail infrastructure left idle. Infact Limerick has more railines than any other city in Ireland after Dublin. I do agree however we have a smaller population. But there is no stopping the city from expanding.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby tretle » Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:34 am

dave123 wrote:Well the infrastructure is there, so I don't see how it would do any harm having the facilties provided for commuters to use it and get out of their cars. Limerick has fantastic rail infrastructure left idle. Infact Limerick has more railines than any other city in Ireland after Dublin. I do agree however we have a smaller population. But there is no stopping the city from expanding.


Would be great if there was a map you could view with the unused rail plotted on it to see whether its viable.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:31 am

tretle:
They are marked on OSi maps - none of the lines are officially disused, indeed only the Foynes line is actually out of use (also unmaintained since early 2000s). The Mungret branch and Nenagh line have little traffic. Ennis line and Tipperary line are busy parts of the existing rail network.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:06 pm

Image

This is a proposed light rail line, that i made up back in 2007 for a thread on another forum, the red line is existing track, whereas the blue is a proposed line made up by my good self. The pic does highlight the amount of rail lines in the city.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Tue Dec 08, 2009 11:36 pm

foinse wrote:Image

This is a proposed light rail line, that i made up back in 2007 for a thread on another forum, the red line is existing track, whereas the blue is a proposed line made up by my good self. The pic does highlight the amount of rail lines in the city.



Well I would like to see the dart type system put onto the those railines. Population expansion into Caherdavin. Also if Ennis and Shannon are to keep expanding and the North line continues to grow, We need to start investing into this now. Many people from Dublin are now using the Ennis line frequently.


The light rail plan is a good idea, but right now I don't think it's feasilble. If the city centre holds at least another 1000 units, and Caherdavin and Castletroy manage to rezone population twice what they currently have, then it will work. Right now, focus needs to be on the inner orbital, Bus routes, pedestrian bridge (over Shannon) Caherdavin distrubuter road. and Childers road widening.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:07 pm

dave123 wrote:Many people from Dublin are now using the Ennis line frequently.


They would want to take their “wellies” with them! :mad:

Flood may close Ennis to Limerick rail line for months

PAT FLYNN

THE ENNIS to Limerick railway line is likely to remain closed until February after a large section of track became submerged in flood water. The situation has again highlighted a dispute over who is responsible for carrying out flood-relief works.

The line has been closed since December 1st. However, while flood water has receded in most parts of Co Clare, levels at Ballycar near Newmarket-on-Fergus continue to rise and are not expected to abate for up to eight weeks.

Services were suspended for 50 days in February and March 2008 after the same section of the line became submerged. During that closure it cost Iarnród Éireann over €300,000 to provide bus transfers between Ennis and Limerick.

Recurring flooding in the area is resulting from a blockage at a point where water from a nearby lake passes underground into a local river.

Iarnród Éireann has stated that because the railway line is not the cause of the flooding the OPW will need to develop a flood-relief scheme for the area. Iarnród Éireann has already twice raised the line since 1995.

However, the OPW has said: “In view of the fact that the railway line is the only significant beneficiary, the OPW will not be managing or commissioning a study or any proposed works for the area.

“Our financial allocation for such works has been further eroded as a result of cutbacks and savings in public expenditure.”

Clare Fine Gael deputy Pat Breen believes confidence in the reliability of the rail service is being eroded even before the expansion of the Western Rail Corridor.

“This same section of the rail line was flooded previously in February of 2008, and at that stage commuter rail services between Ennis and Limerick were disrupted for 50 days.

This track was lifted in 2004, and when this flooding occurred in 2008 I was advised by Iarnród Éireann that a further substantial lift would require major civil engineering works and they were to investigate the feasibility of having this work done.

“The OPW at the time was also to undertake a feasibility study to look at the whole catchment area and to include hydro-geological studies so that a future plan could be developed. I have seen little evidence of any action being undertaken in the meantime.”

© 2009 The Irish Times
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Dec 17, 2009 12:08 am

CologneMike wrote:Flood may close Ennis to Limerick rail line for months



Hmmmmmm, the provision of new infrastructure in the Limerick area over the last while has been dogged by incompetence it seems!

The above embarrassment comes on the back of the madness at Rosbrien and the recent confirmation that it could be as late as next April before the M7 Limerick - Nenagh scheme is fully open to traffic! :eek:

To give a bit of background, construction started on the Limerick - Nenagh stretch back in December 2006. After numerous reports of funding problems, disputes with sub contractors over payment and more worryingly, construction problems at Drominboy bog in Lisnagry, May 2009 was belatedly announced as the opening date!

However it became clear early this year that the deadline would not be met and the completion date was subsequently put back until December. The contractors finally came clean recently and admitted that the on-going issues at Drominboy would further delay the opening until "early in the new year". I emailed the NRA last week and got a reply today which stated that the road will open "no later than April"

So lets get this straight, it will have taken three and a quarter years to build 28 kms of motorway and widen 10kms of the Nenagh bypass! What an utter disgrace!

The Portuguese contractors overseeing this shambles must be the most incompetent shower ever to attempt a road project here!:mad:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:52 am

Tuborg wrote:Hmmmmmm, the provision of new infrastructure in the Limerick area over the last while has been dogged by incompetence it seems!


Though in this particular case, the incompetence is going on for the last 145 years!

Irish Examiner: Is this Ireland’s oldest infrastructural problem?

Flooding remedy: Five-and-a-half tonnes of spuds ;)

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Dec 17, 2009 11:24 pm

Is this Ireland’s oldest infrastructural problem?

Irish Examiner 25 February 2008

Last week Irish Rail said it hoped the OPW can find a long-term solution as it is reopening the old Galway to Limerick line shortly.

OPW spokesman George Moir said engineers were working on the problem: “Our engineer said it is caused by a swallow hole and after heavy rain this year the water is not running off as normal. He will be back with recommendations.”



Yeah right! :rolleyes:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby slinky2000 » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:29 pm

Tuborg wrote:
So lets get this straight, it will have taken three and a quarter years to build 28 kms of motorway and widen 10kms of the Nenagh bypass! What an utter disgrace!


I was thinking about this the other day, I've drove past Nenagh every weekend from limerick for the last 6 years and I could swear the construction has been there since I started down here!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:39 pm

slinky2000 wrote:I was thinking about this the other day, I've drove past Nenagh every weekend from limerick for the last 6 years and I could swear the construction has been there since I started down here!


Yeah its getting fairly depressing at this stage alright! I had to drive to Dublin early Sunday morning and incredibly the N7 between Limerick and Nenagh looked like it had not been gritted or if it had, it was done abysmally!

I witnessed a couple of drivers coming dangerously close to losing control, while others were braking abruptly on the treacherous surface for no apparent reason! It certainly wasn't the happiest motoring experience I've ever had! :(

How I wished that the M7 had been open, which of course it should have been. The annoying thing is that the new motorway passes tantalisingly over the current road on 3 occasions between Annacotty and Nenagh! So frustrating!! :rolleyes:

Pictures below of the situation at Drominboy bog on Christmas Eve, taken by Berty

Bridge south of Dalys Cross towards bog of doom

Image

Standing on the Bog looking East

Image
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:34 pm

Just to clarify because it's hard to tell with the covering of snow. Those are not earthworks in the 2nd photo above. They are heaps of aggregate (stone) that will be used as a base upon which the other layers of road material will sit!

In this case it will be laid on top of the re-inforced concrete structure that was built across the boggy section to provide stability for the roadway. That's how they are hoping the plan will work anyhow! :o

Below: the concrete slab under construction last summer, also from Berty

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Griff » Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:26 pm

Not sure if this article from the Leader has already been posted - sorry for double up if it has..If there was one project that I would love to see every politician in the region get behind it would be this one....hand in hand with the boundary extension of course.
Actually a 3rd item on my 2010 wish list would be to give every encouragement needed to get M&S into the Opera centre... the rest will follow - its not that I like them - its just they are the type of heavy weight brand that would drag in the others...


UK company launches plan for Limerick Luas
€200m system would link county villages with city centre
December 2009
By Anne Sheridan

PLANS are being developed for a possible Luas line running through Limerick city and county, if €200m in funding can be raised from private enterprises.
A Liverpool company, Trampower, which tendered for the Luas line in Dublin, is behind the venture and has already pitched their plans to City Hall for consideration.
Labour's Deputy Jan O'Sullivan has also been made aware of the plans, and she has urged local authorities in the Mid-West to ensure rail formed part of their city and county development plans.

The plans will be put to private investors and decision makers at a business meeting in the new year, by which time a feasibility study, business plan and an economic appraisal will be carried out.

Prof Lewis Lesley, technical director with Trampower, which carries the motto "Getting People Back on Track", believes the plans could have huge benefits for the future of Limerick's ailing city centre, which has been hit by the rise of suburban development.
"The tram would be at no cost to the taxpayers and could turn O'Connell Street into a European-style shopping mall, a bit like Grafton Street in Dublin," said Prof Lewis.
In terms of completion – pending the acquisition of funding – he said the "best case scenario" could be the construction of the Luas in two to three years.
In preliminary studies, it has been predicted that the service could carry 50,000 people per day, and potentially five million to 12 million per year.

A similar proposal for a "Gluas" or environmentally-friendly line in Galway city has a target of carrying between four million and 10 million passengers per year.
Brendan Holland, chairman of the Gluas, said the system they were hoping to develop in Galway would be capable of using the existing line between Galway and Limerick.
"It's not rocket science to see the benefits, it's just common sense
"It has been proven that a light rail system would be physically possible and financially viable in Galway and seeing as Limerick is a bigger city, it would stand to reason that it would make equal sense to also have one there", said Mr Holland.

Prof Lewis added that students in the University of Limerick could then potentially travel directly from their doorsteps in Castletroy, continuing on to Galway, if the plans come to fruition.
The Luas line could stretch from four or five locations in County Limerick, including Cratloe, Castleconnell and Patrickswell, with a possible three or four stops along O'Connell Street in the city, leading on towards Thomond Park and Moyross.

City-based architects Elliott Maguire Landers (EML) are also taking a keen interest in the plans.
Dee Maguire of EML said the development of a line in Limerick "is not outside the imagination. It would reinvigorate the city and ease traffic congestion."
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby tretle » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:48 pm

Griff - Thanks for the heads up, no idea how I let that info slip past me :)
It is very obvious that this would be a great deal of help for the city and after the labour party emphasized the importance of existing unused lines in limerick and how they could be utilized for tram use it does not surprise me that a private entity can see the potential.
I think Limerick city council need to help these guys out as much as possible.
Its fun to imagine what a pedestrianized O'Connell street along with tram service might look like, and further down the line how a pedestrianized redeveloped arthurs quay might compliment it.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Griff » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:36 pm

tretle wrote:Griff - Thanks for the heads up, no idea how I let that info slip past me :)
It is very obvious that this would be a great deal of help for the city and after the labour party emphasized the importance of existing unused lines in limerick and how they could be utilized for tram use it does not surprise me that a private entity can see the potential.
I think Limerick city council need to help these guys out as much as possible.
Its fun to imagine what a pedestrianized O'Connell street along with tram service might look like, and further down the line how a pedestrianized redeveloped arthurs quay might compliment it.


Another fact that I didnt know about is that there used to be a direct railway line from Cork to Limerick. There was a junction at Charleville with a line from there directly to Patrickswell where it joined with the line from Kerry and led into Limerick. Presume this line is totally gone now. Also there was a small link from the Station at Birldhill to Ballina/Killaloe. Good map here..http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e4/Map_Rail_Ireland_Viceregal_Commission_1906.jpg
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:36 pm

Tuborg wrote:How I wished that the M7 had been open . . . . .


McNamara firm must pay cost of bog road remedial works (M7 Limerick-Nenagh)

M7 runs through 'bottomless' bog in Co Limerick :D


McNamara can't pay €62.5m judgement (Irish Glass Bottle site)


So we take it that he is now more or less bust? When will this M7 stretch eventually open?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:36 pm

CologneMike wrote:So we take it that he is now more or less bust? When will this M7 stretch eventually open?


The news on this just gets worse and worse. If the report in todays Irish Independent is accurate, it will be the end of the year before the road is fully open! The contractors really are taking the piss at this stage!

Unfortunately the article isnt particularly well researched with very little new information on the exact details of the problem. I must say I find it incredible that the media in general have taken such little interest in this on-going saga. The NRA and Bothar Hibernian have been fobbing everyone off, repeatedly offering the same soundbites and excuses over the last year or so. Those who have to endure the N7 on a regular basis really do deserve a proper explanation at this stage!


'Bottomless' bog delays road plan

By Barry Duggan

Monday January 11 2010

A MAJOR road will not be opened until the end of this year -- more than 15 months behind schedule -- because of a 'bottomless' bog.

The Limerick-Nenagh N7 dual carriageway was due to have been completed in May of last year, but the National Roads Authority (NRA) said it would not be finished until the end of this year because of unforeseen delays.

The 38km route will cost the taxpayer €424m, but the cost of having to construct the route over a seemingly endless bog near the Limerick-Tipperary border will have to be borne by the contractors Bothar Hibernian.

It is understood that tens of thousands of steel-reinforced concrete piles have been driven into Drominboy Bog at Lisnagry to support the road at a cost of millions of euro.

Only a small section of the route traverses the bog, which locals claim is "bottomless".

Local tales include heavy machinery being swallowed by the bog, which is able to absorb huge amounts of rain.

As a result, Sean O'Neill of the NRA said the final 15km of the road would not be completed until the end of the year. He said the problems presented by the rural bog were "the major engineering challenge".

Challenge

"The contractor has to deal with that implication," Mr O'Neill said.

"There is a challenge in the bog area, but that is a known condition. It's not like the bog showed up yesterday. We defer to the contractor as it's their responsibility to get the job done."

Mr O'Neill said that the NRA anticipated that major sections of the route would be open by March.

The project consists of 28km motorway standard and the widening of the Nenagh bypass to dual carriageway standard.

The route, which is hoped will ease traffic congestions in the Mid-West region, has been hindered in recent years over payments to local contractors, staff lay-offs and engineering challenges.

Irish Independent

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby foinse » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:55 pm

Tuborg wrote:I must say I find it incredible that the media in general have taken such little interest in this on-going saga.


It's happening at the wrong side of the country for the national media to care about it, If this was happening in Meath, Kildare, Wicklow on a road leading into Dublin then it would be all over the nationals, but it's about 200KM too far to the SW for them to care.
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