I have a master in arts and architecture not listed in the EU directive, issued by a French University 15 years ago. My first experience in a practice was in 1993. I have worked in the UK between 1995 and 2000 and I created my practice in Dublin by the end of 2000, I have a 5 years degree and 16 years of experience but I cannot register through the Technical Assessment Board.
I was willing to pass the exam until I learned about the €13,300 fees. I have applied for registration as per route D2, or Section 16 of the BCA 2007, but no application form are available and the RIAI is looking at every aspect of my situation to block me rather than help me. I feel like an unwanted competition. I have given the last 25 years of my life practicing and studying architecture, and I think that I deserve more respect than that.
Honestly, I do not mind about the title "Architect". What I want is to be able continuing practicing architecture as I was before. But the RIAI has already tried to stop me being listed as an architect last year and it is only by employing my solicitor that the Golden pages legal team ruled that the RIAI request for trying to block me and others was illegal because the registration procedure was not yet in place. But what will happen tomorrow if my application for registration is turned down?
I am looking at the professional ethic here. The issues of certification for compliance with planning and building regulations do not make any sense. Architect opinions of compliance are requested for buildings, but these certificates are frequently issued with only a final inspection and they only ascertain compliance of the design and not compliance of the dwelling. Do you think that someone purchasing a house care about the design or do you think that this person is concerned about the built structure?
What is the point of a cert of compliance if it only covers the design and not the built structure? There are many other issues like this one which reflect a corrupted system where public interests are ignored for the interests of some professionals. I have certified my work since 2003 and my certs were the result of detailled inspections during construction.
I think that the same apply to the registration for reasons that I have already stated. To protect the public, all individuals providing architectural services should be regulated and registered with an Institute which is caring for architecture instead of caring for some architects. I have practiced in Ireland since 2000 but I could not use any of the RIAI contracts or other documents. Don't you think that the RIAI could have improved architecture in the country and protect the public by trying to regulate architects non members. Don't you think that they could have created a code of conduct and other helpful documents for non members to protect the public?
I do not know if my application for registration will be accepted of refused... But whatever the result, I think that more honesty is required about the goals to be achieved...
wearnicehats wrote:you see I find this whole thing completely bizarre. The country in which you ply your trade has passed legislation, legislation that doesn't suit you - but where do you get off thinking that you can ignore it? In the next two weeks I will most likley end up paying more tax than I did last year - perhaps I can refuse to pay on the basis that I didn't pay this much last year or the year before that??
you query my assertion that you think the the world owes you something then state that you "have given the last 25 years of my life practicing and studying architecture, and I think that I deserve more respect than that" - even though you don't meet the criteria no matter how unfair you may think it to be
you state that you left college with an unrecognised degree 15 years ago and seem outraged that, in order to become registered, it will cost you money. I graduated 18 years with a recognised degree. 16 years ago I became a registered architect - at my own cost - and, for the past 16 years I have paid a not insubstantial yearly sum to remain so in 2 different countries. I am not a member of the RIBA because I don't need to be - the ARB is suffcient. I am a member of the RIAI because I do need to be as that is the legislative system in this country. Your concern is money and yet you are probably paying more in solicitors fees than it would cost you to enter into a simple partnership with a suitably qualified peer
You can search about all you want for a sympathetic shoulder and demean those who don't agree with you but ultimately you are only deluding yourself
CK wrote:Well wearnicehats,
You are missing the point again... I have always followed the legislation and I will continue this way...
Please focus on the subject of this thread which is about the registration of architects.
You may think that I do not deserve respect, but personally I think that everyone does... This is probably the difference between you and me...
As an architect you should focus on the system that rules your profession. I am resident and practicing in this country, I pay taxes to the Irish government and that allow me to be critical about it, whatever you like it or not.
With regard to my solicitorâ€™s fees, he is a good friend of mine and I must admit that it just cost me a diner... With regard to your attitude, it just confirms where the problem lies... It is not my skills which are the problem for my registration but people like you eager to protect their own interests whatever the cost, the public interests come only second.
Maybe you should focus on helping for the creation of a better architectural system in this country instead of letting others doing it for you... If architects had been more involved this way, like I always been, we would not have roof coming off apartments blocks in Dublin and newly built estates flooded in Kildare during the last week...
wearnicehats wrote:dude if you are the CK of http://www.ckarchitect.ie the biggest step forward in creating better architecture is for the riai to shut you down immediately
wearnicehats wrote:...is for the riai to shut you down...
CK wrote:Where can I find some or your works wearnicehats? At least I am not hiding behind a pseudo... I am not afraid of my opinion... Considering the way you express yourself and the level of your argument, I think that you are not what you pretend to be... Are you courageous enough to show your real identity?
teak wrote:Seems like no one cares what happens to the architectural technicians/technologists who do not have the design skills to make it aboard the RIAI wagon.
No wonder they're putting up such a fight behind the scenes.
CK wrote: But for me, at 41 years old it would be difficult... I have given the last 22 years of my life to architecture, and I don't know what else I could do...
CK wrote:Many of you are probably young, and it will be easy for you to adapt to a new profession... But for me, at 41 years old it would be difficult... I have given the last 22 years of my life to architecture, and I don't know what else I could do...
CK wrote:Is there anyone on this board aware of a group of architects in Ireland being created to defend their rights for continuing practicing and certifying their works despite not being registered? I am aware of CIAT, but they are not based in Ireland and if their system is well adapted to the UK, I don't think that it is very useful for the R.O.I.
CK wrote:The problem is that if nobody defends the rights of all architects or persons delivering architectural services non member of the RIAI... These persons, these architects are said to be permitted to practice, but the reality is that they will soon be wiped off.
The problem is that nobody cares... The RIAI is asking â‚¬6500 for registration through the Technical assessment board, â‚¬13,500 for the register examination and only a 2 or â‚¬300 for their members...
The BCA 2007 clearly states that all applicants should be charged the same fees for registration. In the UK or France or even in the US, the fees for registration are always below â‚¬2,000 or dollards.
They are obviously trying to dissuade through financial means.
I am not sure if I am at the right place to talk of such an important subject. People like wearnicehats seem to be more into jokes rather that serious conversation...
It is one of the problems that I experience... I do not have any institute to back me up... I am not part of any group to denunciate the irregularities that are carried out...
It is not normal that someone like me and others in my situation may found themselves in the impossibility to practice, because unable to call themselves architects and unable to certify their work, despite having a sound knowledge of architectural services...
If it was only about protecting the public, then we would not be requested to pay â‚¬13,500 for an exam when everybody knows that professionals and trades from the construction industry are struggling to make a living...
I am now trying to apply through another route... But other arguments are presented... I feel that after 9 years working in the country, and despite clients delighted with my services, I may have to close my business and apply for unemployment benefits because some people pretend that I am not qualified to continue working... Some people who are obviously willing to take over the clients from my practice...
CK wrote:The problem is that if nobody defends the rights of all architects or persons delivering architectural services non member of the RIAI... These persons, these architects are said to be permitted to practice, but the reality is that they will soon be wiped off . . . .
foremanjoe wrote:The register is designed to protect the status of the RIAI and its members; the idea of the protection of the consumer is simply a thinly-veiled attempt to disguise this fact.
The current crop of successful architects will be ring-fenced and an 'Establishment' will be formed and reinforced.
foremanjoe wrote:John Wayne would say it's time to circle the wagons boys, but I have no doubt that Sean O'Laoire has an Irish translation for this expression.
He's good at that kind of thing.
gunter wrote:There is this whole deeper dimension to architecture, or there's suppoed to be. One of the things we're meant to learn is that there is this public realm aspect to architecture that superceeds just the satisfying of the requirements of the client, so that when he comes to you and says he wants a dormer bungalow, you have to find a way of showing him how you can satisfy all of his requirements and design him a comfortable family home . . . with architectural integrity, you're not supposed to just give him a dormer bungalow.
henno wrote:CIAT is a representative group for Architectural Technologists, not Architects.
The register is designed to protect the status of the RIAI and its members; the idea of the protection of the consumer is simply a thinly-veiled attempt to disguise this fact.
The current crop of successful architects will be ring-fenced and an 'Establishment' will be formed and reinforced. These architects will propogate themselves and architecture in Ireland will stagnate. There is some evidence to suggest that this has already happened, and I don't mean simply the demise of the building boom.
They've been talking about registration for twenty years, this didn't exactly come out of the blue. You seem to be a very competent building technologist, but is that the same as architecture?
There is this whole deeper dimension to architecture, or there's suppoed to be. One of the things we're meant to learn is that there is this public realm aspect to architecture that superceeds just the satisfying of the requirements of the client, so that when he comes to you and says he wants a dormer bungalow, you have to find a way of showing him how you can satisfy all of his requirements and design him a comfortable family home . . . with architectural integrity, you're not supposed to just give him a dormer bungalow.
Nobody wants to get into a slagging match about who can and can't design, but in the past I have worked with two guys who were not qualified architects, but who practiced as architects. Both were exceptional business men, good organizers, good with clients, but to be honest about it, neither one of them cared too deeply about design, and I'm pretty certain neither one of them ever lost a night's sleep agonizing over the architecture of a project that just wasn't coming together.
CK wrote:Hi Henno,
Both of them are producing architecture... Can you explain the difference between an architect designed building and an architectural tech designed building?