Carlton Cinema Development

Postby StephenC » Fri Jun 28, 2002 5:41 pm

They've been doing some renovations. I read it in the paper the other day. The whole ground floor was revamped. Im not if they have done anything to the outside but at least it means they are staying put and not selling their premises off to become an internet cafe or a souvenir shop. I must drop by and have a look....its supposed to be quite nice
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Postby MG » Tue Jul 02, 2002 12:48 pm

I passed the Carlton on Sunday, very strange looking indeed, stonework around entrance covered so it looks clean, false windows inserted. Strangely enough it looks better, excellent to know the that neon Carlton letters still work too.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Oct 09, 2002 10:13 am

I think could be a nail in the coffin of this development, with the downturn adding the rest.

City council moves to protect Rising site
The Irish Independent

Dublin City councillors yesterday passed a motion to protect a safe house used by the leaders of the 1916 Rising even though planning permission for the site has been granted. The motion to designate No 16 Moore Street in the capital's city centre a protected structure was unanimously passed by councillors after it emerged that the historic value of the site had not been brought to the attention of councillors when they were considering the developer's planning application.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=840352&issue_id=8140
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Postby GregF » Wed Oct 09, 2002 11:36 am

It is good to see this house saved and the plaque that was once there should be re installed to commemerate our history. The Shopping mall proposal could still go ahead.......surely the wonderful achitects/developers with a bit of thinking with the old grey matter can incorporate this into the whole proposed plan.......which has been on hold too since they got planning permission.
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Postby StephenC » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:09 pm

Should the house be saved? Does it have any architectural merit?
Aren't there enough monuments to the Rising already...the Garden of Remberance (in need of a spruce up), the tacky murals in the GPO, a whole section in the National Museum, Arbour Hill, Kilmainham Gaol....the list goes on!
Is there any value in holding onto this building because of its slim historical attachements. After all, you could argue that most buildings in Dublin have some dubious claim to fame
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Postby notjim » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:16 pm

i agree with gregf, incorporating the 1916 building can only make the mall more interesting, pictures of the moore street facade make it look very bland.
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Postby StephenC » Thu Oct 10, 2002 4:23 pm

From what I have seen...the whole thing is bland - front and back.
But what is this 1916 building... its starting to take on the form of a Gandon masterpiece. Is it rather just an ordinary late 19 century 4 storey building
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:12 pm

Exactly, just because some guys took refuge in it, probably because it was the only front door they could force.....
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Postby Rory W » Mon Oct 14, 2002 4:41 pm

And so we end up with the Irish solution to an Irish problem - we incorporate the old building into the new one and both look out of context -see National Gallery extn with ballroom for example.

I have no qualms with saving heritage that's worth saving but if it is just an ordinary house then it is probably not woth saving. In years to come if I become famous for something, I wouldn't like my 3 bed semi preserved for the nation!

It's reminiscent of the dispute about one of the houses that James Joyce lived in from a few years ago - Joyce lived in about 30 different houses around Dublin over the space of a few years - are they all equally important?
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Postby notjim » Mon Oct 14, 2002 6:57 pm

yes, but isn't that one of the nice things about the ngi extension, i love the way it has the old ball room in the cafe. nor is it such a uniquely irish thing to mix old and new buildings, though it is something that is done well in the temple bar.
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Postby ew » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:53 pm

Ah yes, the Carlton cinema. Remember this...?Bord Pleananla has just agreed that Carlton Group must sell the property on to Dublin City Council. This compulsory purchase (which had been stalled by the appeal) should kick start the redevelopment of this part of O'connell st.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:00 pm

Excellent news.
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Postby bigjoe » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:08 pm

about bloddy time.
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Postby GregF » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:17 pm

.....but what about the grandiose plans for this ...with shopping malls, hotels etc ...linking the one time cinema to the now ugly but redeveloped to be ILAC centre.....and with a glass canopy over Moore Street to keep all the 'salt of the earth' traders and hawkers dry.
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Postby StephenC » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:33 pm

The whole thing seems to have run out of steam. I havent heard anything about the ILAC centre for some time.

I agree with the question: What happens now? Will the CC hand the whole site over to a new developer for a similar type development? Or will it break the site into parcels again? Or will they revive the Abbey Theatre move idea?

There are an increasing number of vacant sites emerging in this area contrary to the purpose fo the IAP.. this is the most obvious but also the Independent offices, the old AIB branch on O'Connell Street. The IAP needs a bit of a heavey handed push from DCC to get things moving again.

Also what about the idea of making developers like Carlton Group pay for unacceptable delays in developing prime or flagship sites in IAP areas? Immsure they will get a more than fair price for the land under a CPO....what about compensating the city for the time they have wasted.
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Postby ew » Mon Jan 20, 2003 1:45 pm

The announcement of the new hotel on Parnell street must be seen as a vote of confidence from Jurys at least.
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Postby ew » Mon Jan 20, 2003 2:38 pm

An appeal against todays decision has been lodged with the high court.
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Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 20, 2003 3:57 pm

About one of the first comments regarding the art deco facades, I belive it is referring to the original proposal to build symmetrical flanking facades on either side in an art deco manner, in sympathy with the original central building. This would involve building from scratch on the derilict site to the right, and re-facing Dr Quirkey's on the left, creating a balanced composition. I have a picture of it and it looks spectacular and highly inventive.

Of course, as this is Ireland, it means it cannot possibly go ahead, it might make sense you'll understand, or perhaps actually look well. Instead we are lumped with a nasty piece of mock Victorian red brick, uPVC windowed Dr Quirkeys, the exquiste Carlton Cinema, and undoubtedly some crude pastiche on the other side, creating a lopsided, poorly finished and unbalanced composition.
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Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:04 pm

I only found out recently that the Fingal Office bldg is to be ripped apart, it's concrete shell to be converted to a hotel, and a new facade to be built. At last! Also DCC are expecting an application shortly for a remodelling of the Royal Dublin Hotel, and to do away with those nasty champagne coloured aluminium oriel windows, which have blighted the Street since 1968.
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Postby ew » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:33 pm

Dr Quirkeys is included in the CPO, Fingal Office bldg is not.
Don't suppose you can post that picture here Graham?
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Postby GrahamH » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:33 pm

At least the Fingal Bldg is in public ownership, and so hopfully things will happen more swiftly.
That picture is actually in Pat Liddy's 'Dublin a Celebration' book, my camera is under repair at the minute, I'll try scanning it once I get the book.
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Postby Rory W » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:39 am

The Fingal building isn't in public ownership - its owned by the McGettigan family of hotelliers and publicans (they who owned the Baggot Inn etc)
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Postby GrahamH » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:47 pm

Of course, sorry, they only leased it to Fingal. I forgot it was a speculative development. Presumably the hotel connection is linked to the proposed hotel.
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Postby J. Seerski » Tue Jan 21, 2003 4:06 pm

Shopping Centre's are notoriously transient in their style and appeal - when the ILAC was built it was seen as a beautiful addition to the city....well, er, and So was Stephen's Green...em...and Jervis is starting to become out of date...

The Abbey idea is the most appropriate and better for the long-term viability of this end of O'Connell Street. Cultural institutions don't close down, usually are well designed, bring money to an area and contribute to the cultural life of the area. O'Connell Street needs something like the Abbey - and if it was moved to the Carlton, the result would benefit both the Street and the Theatre. O'Connell Street needs a good mix, not another shopping centre with more rubbish "high street" stores...........
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Postby Rory W » Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:49 am

What that end of O'Connell Street needs are some night time draws, such as good quality restaurants/bars etc that will draw people to the area after dark, as well as something like the Abbey Theatre, I like the idea though that the upper floors of the Carlton development could be residential!

Don't forget O'Connell Street used to be the entertainment centre of Dublin.

The main trouble with shops/Malls etc is that come 6pm they're closed - give us something with at least 18 hours of life please or introduce Barcelona style opening hours (open until 10pm - fantastic)
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