Smithfield, Dublin

Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby urbanisto » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:22 am

I think the Children's Court is a problem here. Too much space to hang around in before/after hearings.
I also think the area needs more apartments and more of a family focus.
These large preipheral squares rarely work successfully in my opinion. It just too difficult to create enough activity outside city centre.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby fergalr » Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:00 pm

StephenC wrote:I think the Children's Court is a problem here. Too much space to hang around in before/after hearings.
I also think the area needs more apartments and more of a family focus.
These large preipheral squares rarely work successfully in my opinion. It just too difficult to create enough activity outside city centre.


Smithfield isn't as peripheral as you might think. The "legal quarter" is all around it, the Luas runs through it and the Guinness Brewery, Collins Barracks, the Phoenix Park and some great old suburbs like Phibsboro are right beside it.

The quays are at their most pleasant from the Four Courts up to Hueston. It's a sedate part of town, to be sure. But sedate is good. Smithfield needs to be given a point and an immediate hinterland. It has precisely the same problem as O'Connell Street; it's a crossroads to other points with very little to commend it on its own merits.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby gunter » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:40 pm

Image

Smithfield on 'Culture Night' last Friday . . . . a hub of inactivity, but well lit!
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:03 pm

Tut - keeping the rabble at bay was the Smithfield culture event.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Frank Taylor » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:40 am

I used to live in Smithfield 15 yrs ago. It has certainly improved since then. The horse fair is occasional and I only noticed it on a couple of occasions. It makes the area more interesting although the more ISPCA type policing the better. The children's court has to go somewhere and many of the attendees are locals.

Not every area has to be a tourist destination. The population has increased greatly with plenty more private tenants. Population and transport links create a market for more facilities. The planners can be blamed for allowing development that is unsuitable for families and resulting in a narrow demographic of young working tenant residents. This leaves the area quiet during the day.

I preferred living there to temple bar where the noise was too much at night.

To improve smithfield in the future, I would like to see new accommodation suitable for families (large 2/3 bed apartments that overlook green enclosed common play areas, segregated from cars).
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Michae1 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 2:53 pm

In immediate proximity of Smithfield is the Bolton Street area which also suffers from dereliction. The students of third year in Bolton Street spent the year addressing the problem by shifting the proposed site for DIT Grangegorman towards the city to create an urban campus serving the student population and the community.
They have a book launch and exhibition at the end of October but you can see some of the work online.

http://three.dublinschoolofarchitecture.com
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby publicrealm » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:13 pm

Michae1 wrote:In immediate proximity of Smithfield is the Bolton Street area which also suffers from dereliction. The students of third year in Bolton Street spent the year addressing the problem by shifting the proposed site for DIT Grangegorman towards the city to create an urban campus serving the student population and the community.
They have a book launch and exhibition at the end of October but you can see some of the work online.

http://three.dublinschoolofarchitecture.com


Very impressive Michael.

Is it simply an exercise or do you consider it a viable alternative to the MRY Plan for DIT/HSE at Grangegorman?
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby gunter » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:35 pm

Bolton Street, should use their immersion in gritty urbanism to their advantage instead of following UCD into starchitect gazing.

There might be token zany shapes, but is this not 1970s planning?

Do we want Church Street to go underground at Constitution Hill?
Is there someone out there who thinks tunnel portals are not one of the most damaging things you can put in an urban context?
Do we need more grass in the city centre?

All of this stuff has been tried before and it's incredibly destructive of real urbanism. We need to learn how to mend the city, not replace it with Sandyford.

I don't want to be discouraging.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby tommyt » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:53 pm

Michae1 wrote:In immediate proximity of Smithfield is the Bolton Street area which also suffers from dereliction. The students of third year in Bolton Street spent the year addressing the problem by shifting the proposed site for DIT Grangegorman towards the city to create an urban campus serving the student population and the community.
They have a book launch and exhibition at the end of October but you can see some of the work online.

http://three.dublinschoolofarchitecture.com


To be honest I wasn't too enamoured with this. The forensic level of analysis is welcome but I find calling a decent, functional urban neighbourhood with organically diversifying uses a 'wasteland' to be irritatingly bourgeois.
On one level there is talk of Kreuzberg and its invigorating squatter counterculture then we get a fairly typical city 'fix' based on dated ideas of urban renewal.
Don't mean to piss on anyone's chips and I appreciate the huge amount of work a student has to put into such a project but it's analysing urban renewal from a very narrow prism, yet demonstrating an overreach regarding what architecture can deliver for real communities.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby jdivision » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:50 am

StephenC wrote:I agree with tommyt, Smithfield Resi...the horse fair is a sham. Its a disgrace to allow it to continue because of some legal nicety. 1,000 years of history or not. If its necessary to continue a horsefair then it should be at a proper modern facility, just like a mart. And why on earth is it needed in the centre of a city!

On the other hand why should it be moved to down the road from where I live (as planned). It's always been there, why move it? I agree on the welfare front but also believe that a centralised location should facilitate, rather than inhibit it.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby ac1976 » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:28 am

Smithfield Plaza to be completed
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1015/1224256691498.html

anyone know what the completed plazza will look like?
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Yixian » Fri Oct 16, 2009 1:58 pm

No matter what it looks like, without more to *do* there a la the Lighthouse, it won't be seen.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby newgrange » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:55 pm

Can't understand why they don't have a good, top quality, daily covered market a la Granville Island Market up there permanently.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Alek Smart » Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:02 pm

Droool?...sounds like the most bnoring load of old tripe. Who on earth would visit a Legal Museum?


Perhaps....perhaps Not....

One of the best visits I ever made was to the Museum of Irish Music and Culture which had a brief existence in The Chief O Neill`s complex.

It was IMO the best interactive and informative exposition of Irish Music to be found in this City.
Sadly,it died a death due to all of the Smithfield Factors so accurately depicted in this thread.
The final nail in it`s coffin came when the Museum`s creators were asked to "Funk it up" and consider allowing it to be used as a Nightclub in order to stimulate night-trade income.

In the current economic and social climate it is debatable whether Smithfield can in fact be saved from the Sandyford effect...ie: demolition and the return of the land to largely agrarian purposes.... ;)
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Yixian » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:13 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8310910.stm

Can't help but feel like Smithfield is the ideal location for a southbank type area in Dublin, but in order to do that it's going to take more than just posh lamps, rather actual things to do and buildings of substance like the above.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Livian » Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:53 pm

There is a path of vacancy all the way from Smithfield to the fruitmarket: The aforementioned land beside the Luas line bring us down to Church St, then jink north through the large vacant site behind the Bridewell Garda station and that virtually brings you to Greek Street (need a bit of the District Court car park to get through to Greek St). There, the unattractive River house on Chancery Street is awaiting demolition. That backs onto the demolished fish market.
Presumably all this will be Namaed in the next few months and surely someone with vision (not me) can imagine some way of better connecting up Smithfield with Capel St/Henry St area so that it isn't as desolate as it is now?
I'm having trouble viewing the Bolton St. students' proposal but it looks a bit more radical than just redeveloping these existing vacant lots in some coherent way.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby newbahn » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:14 am

Hi All,

Does anyone know where I can find details of the Smithfield Sq redevelopment online?

I know the proposed plans and some pictures are on display in a window in one of the empty units in the Sq itself but does anyone where this information can be found online?

Thanks
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Bago » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:07 pm

Maybe smithfield needs a permenant ferris wheel!
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby urbanisto » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:03 pm

Do a search on the City Council's planning search page for Smithfield Public Realm Enhancement. Its an application at present.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Quillber » Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:56 pm

Bago wrote:Maybe smithfield needs a permenant ferris wheel!


don't go puttin' ideas in their head :rolleyes:
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Bago » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:43 pm

Quillber wrote:don't go puttin' ideas in their head :rolleyes:


And the liffey cable car could run like a bicycle chain between the smithfield and point depot ferris wheels.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Devin » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:31 pm

DCC granted themselves permission for the refurbishment / completion of the square - 4569/09. Check out the number of 3rd party submissions to it in 'view documents' ... lot of interest. But no appeal right since it's a Part 8 application. As can be seen in the photo below, work has just started at the top of the square. Some greenery is being put in.

There seems to be no formal copy of the 'Smithfield Quarter Enhancement Scheme' available online, but there's a scanned copy of it here in the documentation with that planning app. - http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00294646.pdf

Nice to see that the Scheme is drawing attention to the significance of the surviving old streetscape at the top of Smithfield (Cobblestone pub etc.) Section 2.0 seeks to "identify, understand and conserve the smaller and finer grain of the earlier C17th/C18th building typologies with their long linear arrangement of the building plots which are embodied in the street-fronted structures at the north end of the Square/North King Street ... This historic streetscape is of huge historical and architectural import as it provides the original scale to the C18th market place."



Image

Image


Image

And speaking of that very streetscape, this horror proposal for Nos. 82-83 North King Street was granted permission by Dublin City Council (never!) last year, appealed by An Taisce and has now been overturned by the Bord - http://pleanala.ie/casenum/235886.htm

It was for a replacement infill building on the site of No. 82, demolition and facade retention of the early-20th century Delaney's pub at No. 83 (which is Georgian behind the facade), then uniting the two under a whopping Supervalu-Portlaoise mansard roof wiping out pitched roofs and chimney stacks to No. 83. If you look through the drawings, it was actually not a bad scheme in terms of accommodation provision, with a design around a courtyard, but as a vision of how to develop historic streetscape grain, it was fairly horrific stuff.

The streetscape here really is of value and needs careful repair and infill, maintaining existing qualities. So much of this kind of thing was lost - on the Quays and elsewhere - that we should carefully cherish remaining areas. They are the essence of urban Dublin. The restoration of No. 81 by architects for their offices stands as an example of what can be done.

The Cobblestone pub ought to put some effort into the presentation of their building. It's in an awful state with painted brick and mismatched half-PVC / half-sash windows and lack of upkeep. Suppose they think because they're a 'cool old kip' pub it's ok to look like that .... a bit of conservation work wouldn't go astray.
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:28 pm

Devin - my (failing) memory tells me there was a scheme for the cobblestone to move out 5/6 years ago and the corner to be redeveloped.....
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Re: Smithfield Wasteland

Postby Devin » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:54 pm

Can't find any recent planning application for it .... maybe it was a mooted scheme published somewhere that never went to planning?
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Re: Smithfield, Dublin

Postby urbanisto » Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:36 pm

Some limited works to Smithfield taking place then. I suppose it is August and even in these straightened times the builders have their traditional holidays.

I see there is also an application for works to the former Chief O'Neills. The plan appears to provide for the reopening of the hotel as "tourist accommodation" which is welcome. The application has been granted 2741/10

The terrace at the top of the square is a big challenge for both owners and the city. A revolving fund would be a very practical way of restoring these buildings to their former glory. DCC's abysmal attitude to the site shouldn't come as a surprise....these buildings have been decaying for years.
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