Irish say no to PVC windows

Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby GrahamH » Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:36 pm

One can never vouch for individuals goneill, but below is a good starting point. Testimony is everything.

http://www.igs.ie/Resources/Skills/Skills-Search-Result-List.aspx?craft=joiner+cabinet+maker&searchMode=2
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby Devin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:38 pm

Image


Image Image
BEFORE



Image
AFTER

Thisisnotsshop art gallery on Benburb Street have replaced the sash windows in their building with PVC. I want to think it's just an installation for the Fringe Festival but I've a feeling they're going to be left in. If so, the ironic reference to the tradtional neighbourhood shop that previously occupied the building (top picture) will be lost.

Who did this? It can't have been the people who set up the gallery a few years ago, can it? Because they maintained some historical continuity for the old shop in the name of the gallery and by keeping its architectural features - shopfront and windows. They would not have replaced symbolic sash windows with single-entendre white plastic windows, would they?

Either way, this is a philistine intervention and a blow for art and architecture.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby gunter » Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:21 pm

Image

These two houses look like they could be a complete (early 20th century?) brick-by-brick rebuilding of two houses depicted by Rocque in 1756, (if he actually existed).

Image
detail from Rocque's map when this section of the street was called Gravel Walk.

Image Image

The houses retain the small gabled returns, the massive central chimney stack and the corner fireplaces of the pre-Georgian 'Billy' plan and I'd be very interested to see if either of these houses retained any other discernable features from their probable, early 18th century, manifestation.

Which type of poxy replacement windows these house have is also interesting.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:32 pm

Very interesting indeed. Galleries tend to be quite accommodating in allowing access (certainly on Francis Street anyway) - not least as they tend to be the most transient of tenants. Sure! Here's the ladder for the attic! These are definitely worth a closer look.

Benburb Street is essentially the last street in central Dublin with terraces of virtually untouched traditional living-over-the-shop merchant houses and terraces - something which planners do not appear to have copped. Because so many of these buildings are sadly not Protected Structures, and because of the shameful lack of protection afforded to such buildings - or rather any rigorous policy that buildings such as these be restored on the part of the planning authority - means nearly all of these buildings will be demolished or at best mauled in the coming years. The only reason they have survived the boom is due to site assembly aimed at their ultimate replacement.

The hideous PVC windows are but the first step in this degrading process. It looks like it was the new owners of the building who put them in Devin, as it was for sale in the first picture. Presumably the gallery is a tenant? I really do not see why we cannot have an amendment to the 2000 Act that planning permission must be applied for when replacing windows in any pre-1900 building (at the earliest). A number of countries employ a similar blanket protection in respect of all changes to pre-1940 building stock; surely this wouldn't be difficult to implement simply in respect of windows. Our historic buildings rely on fenestration so heavily for architectural expression - it's crazy they're being put in the hands of the likes of the above.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby Devin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:15 pm

There was another interesting higgledy piggledy group to the west of these, demolished in the early '00s for the Collins Square apartment scheme. I have a picture somewhere ..

Gunter, your pic of thisisnotashop with a for sale sign reinforces my feeling that the art gallery didn't put the windows in - ie. it was a new owner.

The old shop was a classic. Mr. Downing wore a white coat. Closed about 2003.

It's hard to say if the two on Rocque are on the precise site of the existing houses, as there's much less to go on, but they're roundabout there anyway.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby Satrastar » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:33 pm

Does cylinder glass have any kind of legal protection/listed status? Or is it okay to destroy it and completely replace sash windows with modern, double glazed sash windows
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby GrahamH » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:42 pm

It does indeed have protection, Satrastar, but only if your building is a Protected Structure or is located in an Architectural Conservation Area. Even the replacement of the glass, never mind the entire original window, will be deemed as materially altering the character of the structure, therefore requiring planning permission (which would be refused).
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby BillJ » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:30 pm

The windows topic has slowed to a trickle... here's another few panes of cylinder glass being lost (although in general the conversion from office to residential and restoration to original room spaces is great).
52 Merrion square is in the process of being converted to a single dwelling (2006 planning app.) but inevitably some panes are lost to careless builders.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby Art Worker » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:16 pm

Thisisnotashop was not responsible for the PVC windows. The gallery was rented, and on the ground floor only. Thisisnotashop didn't make any changes, other than cosmetic, to the building. The landlord was responsible for the removal of the original sash windows and other original interior architecture. He has since been in a bit of trouble for some of his other properties: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0626/1224273368340.html
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby StephenC » Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:06 pm

Lots of scum bags out there eh.

Fair play for clarifying the situation.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby gunter » Tue Jul 13, 2010 2:52 pm

GrahamH wrote:
One of the most glittering arrays of historic glass in Dublin can be seen in the below terrace day and night. For some reason it's always so marvellously apparant. Anyone know where? :)

Image



Image


Is it first floor windows of no. 29 Molesworth Street with the Masonic building reflected?
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jul 13, 2010 3:49 pm

Foster Place Graham?
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby GrahamH » Tue Jul 13, 2010 4:04 pm

Ha - is this still on the go. D'other guy got it Paul!

Top marks gunter. This winner of this month's prize!

Image

You can use them to erase pesky parapets.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby hutton » Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:54 pm

GrahamH wrote:You can use them to erase pesky parapets.


Lol :D
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby apelles » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:20 pm

Sorry.
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Re: Irish say no to PVC windows

Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:16 am

Just encountered a lovely first-hand reference to the 19th century fashion, in its very infancy, of cutting out glazing bars from sashes in favour of expansive sheet glass. Suffice to say, at this early stage, the reference relates to the most prestigious building in Ireland, where major furnishing and redecoration was taking place at the same time:

October 27th 1825

To Francis Johnston Esq.

I enclose herewith [...] requisitions which have been received from His Excellency the Lord Lieutenant's Private Secretary viz.

To have the Glass taken out of the lower part of the Windows in the West Wing of the Vice Regal Lodge and to put in muffed or ground Glass in place thereof.

Estimated at: £14.2.7½



This is interesting, as we rarely hear of polished broad cylinder glass or 'muff' glass being used in Ireland prior to the adoption of the much better cylinder sheet glass which exploded in use here after 1850. Crown glass was actually better than muff glass in its raw state, unless it was polished or 'ground' as indicated above, which was expensive.

£14 in 1825 was neatly the equivalent of about £1000 sterling today. Given that the 'west wing' of the Viceregal Lodge in 1825 constituted only the three-bay section highlighted below, as built by Robert Woodgate in 1802, and if we presume the works were confined to the three gound floor windows, this was an expensive business - remembering labour was much cheaper than today.

Image

Still, perhaps not as expensive as we might have imagined polished broad glass to be.
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