Smithfield, Dublin

[lostexpectation]

if there not enough people living around there now to make enough footfall?

[forrestreid]

Think Burke is over-stating the problem cause by the horse-fair.

I lived around that area for a few years, and it was not a huge problem (one saturday a fortnight I think).

Other than the horse manure deposited it was not really a problem...in fact it was one of the few days you had any life in the area - there were tourists taking photographs, etc.

There was a bit of a skanger element of hangers-on, but it was not that bad..I didn't feel threatened anyway- there was always plenty of coppers about.

it is the sort of thing there would be loads of nostalgia about 20 years after it going.

[kefu]

The fair is on first Sunday of every month.
Not going to get into an argument on the pros and cons of it. However, it should be noted that almost every pub in Smithfield and Stoneybatter area feels the need to shut their doors and only allow regulars in that day.

[jdivision]

Re Wax Museum - where so would you put it?
.... signs on as to poor Paddy Kelly going to the wall... I wonder if the wax museum suggestion was also a sign of desperation?

I think they came up with the waxwork idea because Kelly's son and Donie Cassidy redeveloped the old wax works site and were looking for somewhere to put the things afterwards. It wouldn't bother me if they never saw the light of day again, they never impressed me. If you had to have a venue, is the old church on Essex Quay in Temple Bar in use now or still vacant? Maybe there? http://ireland.archiseek.com/buildings_ireland/dublin/southcity/templebar/essex_quay/church_lge.html

[Devin]

Speaking of ghost towns, have you seen what a ghost town Mayor Street / IFSC extension has become while Luas is being put in? Most businesses have decided to shut up and it's gone sooo quiet.

[ac1976]

Speaking of ghost towns, have you seen what a ghost town Mayor Street / IFSC extension has become while Luas is being put in? Most businesses have decided to shut up and it's gone sooo quiet.

I think the IFSC/Mayor Street qualifies more as a wasteland, to be a ghost town would suggest it was once a town.

[tomk]

Speaking of ghost towns, have you seen what a ghost town Mayor Street / IFSC extension has become while Luas is being put in? Most businesses have decided to shut up and it's gone sooo quiet.

I work in the IFSC and don't recall any businesses having shut down along Mayor Street apart from a menswear shop that was quickly replaced by a new beauty salon.. If anything the numbers have increased (The old Excise bar has been turned into three thriving restaurant/food businesses) and 2 bookies have also opened.

[Devin]

I think it was the weekend when I passed. Ely and Excise Bar were both closed, and very little was open on Mayor Square. The place was dead. Maybe it's different during the week. It's temporary of course, during Luas works..

[d_d_dallas]

2 bookies have opened!

god it's almost like Wall St

[gunter]

While they're trying to figure out what to do with Smithfield, could they not stick in a few pockets of trees and the odd bench.

And when we're on the subject of prolonged inaction, does anyone know what the master plan might be for the last remaining fragments of the last early houses on Smithfield? or are they just hoping they fall in on themselves before anyone notices that they're gone!

[tommyt]

Last I heard was the criminal assets bureau were involved in some way with those properties. CAB are usually quick to get this kind of thing on the open market but i presume there is some sort of legal challenge blocking the way

[Peter Fitz]

could they not stick in a few pockets of trees and the odd bench.

agghhhhhhhh! don't encourage them, 'pockets of trees' is as far as the collective imagination of the city council stretches, college green anyone ?

a considered planting scheme please, by a landscape design practice and preferably some firm other than mitchell

[gunter]

agghhhhhhhh! . . . . a considered planting scheme please, by a landscape design practice . . .

That sounds like six hundred quid for the trees and ten grand in consultancy fees, a competitive tender process and two years of dithering!

Could they not just get out the google-earth view, splodge on a few tree until it looks right, print it off as a map and send someone round to B&Q.

They could even fix the paving on Haymarket with the cobbles they'd take out!

[ctesiphon]

Could they not just get out the google-earth view, splodge on a few tree until it looks right, print it off as a map and send someone round to B&Q.

Fine in principle, but it didn't exactly work for Plaza del Robocop on Dame Street.

You'd think it'd be hard to get the random placing of planters wrong, but DCC found a way!

[Peter Fitz]

splodge on a few trees until it looks right, print it off as a map and send someone round to B&Q.

you see the word 'splodge' kind of embodies DCC's planting policy for me & i just don't trust them to decide what looks right !!!

once a tree goes in, assuming it lasts by accident or design for 20 years, aquring a level of gravitas in the process, its likely to remain part of the street scape for the next 50 years+ with obvious potential to significantly alter the appearance of the street / space.

so a little hotch-potch patch-up job in a visual 'wasteland' like smithfield could come to be emblematic of the space and should not be undertaken on a whim!

[gunter]

One of the lesser entries for the 1991 Smithfield competition just envisaged a bit of in-fill, trees and a market!



It's too late for the in-fill, but we could still have a few trees and a market, what's wrong with that?

[Peter Fitz]

It's too late for the in-fill, but we could still have a few trees and a market, what's wrong with that?

If you're just talking trees in planters, fine - and a decent market would be great ... but if trees are to be ground planted, and not just in a formally laid out space like smithfield but on any city street, you have to plan !!! obviously the addition of trees will completely change the appearance of the space in time, block facades, sight lines, create vistas etc.

again, 'sure just plant a few trees' sums up DCC's hotch potch approach to the public realm and its just not on.

[gunter]

OK, forget about the trees, can we get some tumbleweed ?

[Peter Fitz]

OK, forget about the trees, can we get some tumbleweed ?

I believe there's plenty drifting about the docklands

[gunter]

old newspaper cutting of Smithfield (April '97) . . . before redevelopment.



Interesting caption!

The way I remember it, apart from the monthly horse fair, the fruit & veg market illustrated was just a spill-out from the market sheds and stores along the west side of Smithfield and was mostly a Saturday morning thing.

But, even with this limited use, and accepting that there may have been an architectural deficit, little urban enclosure, and no towering gas braziers, the space 'worked'!

It can't be rocket science to just stick a open-air market into Smithfield at weekends and just see what happens!

The Meeting House Square market in Temple Bar is fine if you don't mind paying €4.50 for a loaf of bread, but it too small and too arty to really satisfy. The Marlay Park and Peoples' Park, DunLaoghaire markets have their charms but are too far out to make a contribution to the city, and are equally arty and over-priced, IMO.

Is there any reason why a city the size of Dublin couldn't have half a dozen decent unpretentious open air markets within the city centre area, enlivening dead spaces and drawing people into the ghost areas of the city centre?

Why would Smithfield and Newmarket not be the obvious places to start?

[ac1976]

http://www.dublincity.ie/SiteCollectionDocuments/markets_area_framework_plan.pdf

The plan is for an indoor public market, and the Stallholders of the Temple Bar market have already been consulted about this and expressed a willingness to move to Smithfield once the market is available.

I prefer DCC's plan, in the mean time Smithfield square IS ALREADY available to artisan stallholders fruit&veg alike but it seems the stallholders are not interested. Wonder why!?

[cgcsb]

old newspaper cutting of Smithfield (April '97) . . . before redevelopment.



Interesting caption!

The way I remember it, apart from the monthly horse fair, the fruit & veg market illustrated was just a spill-out from the market sheds and stores along the west side of Smithfield and was mostly a Saturday morning thing.

But, even with this limited use, and accepting that there may have been an architectural deficit, little urban enclosure, and no towering gas braziers, the space 'worked'!

It can't be rocket science to just stick a open-air market into Smithfield at weekends and just see what happens!

The Meeting House Square market in Temple Bar is fine if you don't mind paying €4.50 for a loaf of bread, but it too small and too arty to really satisfy. The Marlay Park and Peoples' Park, DunLaoghaire markets have their charms but are too far out to make a contribution to the city, and are equally arty and over-priced, IMO.

Is there any reason why a city the size of Dublin couldn't have half a dozen decent unpretentious open air markets within the city centre area, enlivening dead spaces and drawing people into the ghost areas of the city centre?

Why would Smithfield and Newmarket not be the obvious places to start?

jasus! wasteland or not, I prefere it the way it is now. Judging by the picture, it was an absolute kip

[gunter]

jasus! . . . it was an absolute kip

I don't know, you could get some good stuff there!

. . . and if you spent €4.50 you'd come home with more than a feckin loaf of herbal bread

[Paul Clerkin]

It was a great veggie market - a real loss to the area.

[pippin101]

Yes Smithfield is a wasteland, lived there for 2 years 2005-2007. In fact me and my mates were among the first people to move into the Smithfield Market apartments. Couldn't wait to leave by the end.

Problems
- Far too much retail space provided considering the area is not a major destination. The amount of basement parking aims for thousands upon thousands of shoppers which never materialised.
- Major ASB problem in the area. I witnessed many assults and muggings in my time there. Very unsafe at night. Cops were busting skangers practically on a daily basis.
- Alcoholic treatment centre brings many drunks to the seating area at the south of the square near the Luas.
- Criminal Court brought lots of gougers to the square during the day, though only during working hours of course
- Still a large amount of dereliction, including on the square itself.
- Poor finish to the area - cobblestones not reset down near the Luas and just tarmaced over, braziers never lit anymore, lots of litter.
- Horse market. This is more of a neutral though, as although it brought vast quantities of droppings and litter and noise into the area, I know that it's a tourist draw, and it was only once a month.
- Celtic Tiger feel to the new buildings. Reads was very swanky and expensive, same for Fresh, and the gym under the hotel. Nothing for anyone on a budget that's for sure. Gentrification in its purest form.

Pluses
- Lighthouse cinema: only opened recently but was very impressed, lovely place.
- Jameson distillery is worth a look.
- Cobblestone pub is a gem
- Close to pleasant Stoneybatter area
- Luas is a godsend
- Square and braziers are impressive