Carlton Cinema Development

[GregF]

I agree the shops could/should remain open longer....more revenue for the shops .....more employment for people.... and forget about that stupid Sunday religious anti-shopping lark.
The more choices for everyone the better = a cosmopolitan city full of life.

[ro_G]

Somewhere to grab a decent cup of coffee would not go amiss either.

[AndrewP]

Caught the end of an interview on RTE with someone from DCC -either city architect or manager - saying his preferred option for the Carlton site is to move the Abbey there. Surely this is the way to go for O'Connell Street - having a new home for our national theatre there would transform our perceptions of the street at least as much as the Spire. Maybe then we could replace the fast food joints with cafes and restaurants and make O'Connell Street a place to be in itself rather than a route through to the southside...

[ew]

Sounds a great idea to me. But what would we do with the current Abbey Theatre and abbey st. They are part of the IAP too i think.

[StephenC]

Thats odd because the DCC have always previously maintained (at least officially) that they are opposed to moving the Abbey from its current site. Apparently it was this opinion that swayed Sile De Valera when she opted to redevelop the current site.

Personally, it is so blindingly obvious to move the Abbey to O'Connell St and such a rare opportunity to avail of an important site that I think the DCC would be mad not to take it.

As for what to do with the current site.... how about develop it as a 'National Society for the Arts' if you will. Perhaps hold on to the Peacock and redevelop the building over it as a theatre school or academy. That way you still hold on to the tradition of the Abbey (which after all was set up to promote Irish theatre) while giving the site a more suitable purpose.

Or else just demolish it and build a car park...

[GregF]

I think that the shopping mall connecting O'Connell to Moore Street was'nt a bad concept....On refection too the idea of the Abbey moving to O'Connell Street is good as well but I think that may be it should stay put and rebuild a newer and better theatre on the original site where it is now. It could stretch down to the Liffey as was suggested too ...it could contain the old original facade within a new innovative design...(ie glass atrium containing the old facade or whatever). It could be a landmark and an another addition to the wanting River Liffey.
Anyone ever see the area around here and Marlborough Street at night with all the piss, vomit, winos and unfortunates of today's Irish society. It badly needs a clean up.

[ew]

...and that's not just at night...

[StephenC]

That true enough Greg but I think the main problem there is the amount of landowners the National Theatre would have to negotiate with to purchase the river facing block. I think its about 15-20. I am sure most of them will drive hard bargins.

I still think that was the DCCs preferred option. Weren't they planning a pedestrian river crossing between Malborough and Hawkins bus garage...I mean streets and the pedestrianisation of the area in front of the Abbey as is.

Still prefer a move to O'Connell St.

[AndrewP]

Have to disagree with Greg. I think it's totally up in the air whether a new shopping mall, however glitzy looking, would do anything for the street other than drawing more people into it during the day.
The Ilac is a stone's throw away and look at that...
And DCCs complete powerlessness over what kind of shops are opened once retail use is established has to put a question mark over the quality of any shops in the new mall.
Not convinced? A bookies is now due to open on Grafton Street. Grafton Street!!!
The Abbey is currently tucked away in drab building in a lousy location, and I'm not sure of the benefits of bringing it back onto the river. Have you ever tried showing our world renowned national theatre building to an overseas friend? It's an embarrassment.
We've already got theatre/ cinemas/ music venues on and around O'Connell Street. Why not create a critical mass with The Abbey?
A rejuvenated O'Connell street could be grand enough for people to want to stick around after their show, providing enough bodies for a decent restaurant scene (lacking on the north side).

[Paul Clerkin]

Personally I want to see the Abbey and a some restaurants for O'Connell Street. After spending several days on and off hanging around there, somewhere to get a decent coffee would be a plus too.

[ro_G]

I'm sure given it's redevelopment that Hoteliers may take more of an interest in the street now.

[GrahamH]

The main reason for developing a shopping centre/mall on the Carlton site, indeed the reason it was originally proposed, is to draw people to the northern end of the Street. O' Connell Street is being used simply as a route to get to Henry Street, people do not go any further, to the detriment of businesses on the other side/northern end of the Street, as stated in the Area Plan, and is an obvious fact.

Wheras developing the Abbey on the Carlton site is a charming and obvious idea, it simply would not act as a draw to this hugely neglected area, least of all during the day. Even an accociated cultural centre would only draw a couple of tourists during the summer, certainly not Dubliners at any time of the year, again to the detriment of the rejuvination of this area. Aside from the Spire and the repaving, the major issue in the Area Plan is to show there is life beyond Henry Street, and nothing but a retail, restaurant and service providing development is going to do this.

Here's the ill-fated, well designed proposed facade, mentioned before, and contrasted with the current site.

[Paul Clerkin]

ewwwww its all a bit po-mo isnt it

[redeoin]

Good point - I like the way the artist's impression does away with all of those messy people;)

[AndrewP]

A mall would draw people in, all right - during the day. O'Connell Street would become just another 'high street' (hate the term, but with all these UK multiples, what else do you call them?). And like Talbot/Mary Street would be deserted at night, apart from the odd tourist coming up to admire the Spike and probably getting knifed in the process.
O'Connell Street needs mixed uses that would give it life right into the night.

[emf]

Mature trees seem to have 'appeared' in the artists impression also!!

[phil]

Does anyone know when the row over the Carlton will be resolved? I just read that piece about the Abbey possibly moving there. I would be in favour of that move.

[shadow]

"A mall would draw people in, all right" Malls by themselves do not draw people anywhere. It is what they contain or rather it is what is at the end of the mall. The greater regional impact of a redeveloped ILAC and its resulting linkage to Henry Street, pushing activity towards a higher density Parnell Street is what potentially this area is about. O'Connell Street is merely the facade to this, and other things such as the Abbey. If the Abbey moves to the Carlton Site the street could echo to the resounding noise of a modern cultural hub with the Gate and Savoy providing the other anchors. Therefore O'Connell Street would in truth be the Mall.

[Sue]

February 12 is when that Carlton cinema CPO comes into court. If DCC lose, I imagine they'll head to the Supreme COurt. If they win, I can't imagine Carlton taking the same trip. They'll just pocket the market value of the property, surely.

[jdivision]

Dublin City Councillors are tonight considering whether to debate a section 183 motion regarding the Carlton cinema site.
From yesterday's Sunday Business Post:

By Neil Callanan

The Save No 16 Moore Street campaigners have asked the members of Dublin City Council to suspend standing orders at tomorrow night's council meeting in order to debate the agreement drawn up between council management and developer Joe O'Reilly regarding the Millennium Mall site on O'Connell Street.

Dublin City Council has a legal agreement with O'Reilly that it will not implement the compulsory purchase order (CPO) on the Millennium Mall site if he purchases all of it and develops it in line with the O'Connell Street integrated area plan. If the proposal is allowed to be debated, councillors will use Section 183 of the Local Government Act 2001, which deals with any proposed disposal of land by a local authority, to debate the agreement.

The campaigners have already sent notices to councillors to comply with the legislative requirement that at the first meeting held "10 days after the day on which such notices are sent or delivered, the local authority may resolve that the disposal shall not be carried out or that it shall be carried out in accordance with terms specified in the resolution".

The legislation states that if the council decides that land should not be sold then "the disposal shall not be carried out".

The campaigners want the local authority to comply with its original plan to advertise the site for sale on the basis of an open tender. They also want 16 Moore Street to be turned into a museum. Architect Paul Clinton, who owns much of the site and is currently challenging the CPO, has drawn up plans that would see the existing building converted and the houses on either side providing exhibition and cafe facilities.

The campaigners are upset that O'Reilly's submission on the future of the building said that commemorating the retreat and surrender of republican leaders could be thought "excessively morbid or 'martyrological'."

The campaigners' move is hugely significant as at a briefing to councillors in May, management told them that the legal agreement with O'Reilly would not have any effect until adopted by the councillors under a 183 motion.

The Save No 16 Moore Street campaigners point out that in the county development plan it is an objective of the council to preserve the property as a commemorative centre marking the events of Easter 1916. They also point out that it is the policy of the council to seek the conversion of the building "into a museum which will be owned, run and administered by Dublin City Council". The key point in that statement, the campaigners say, is that the building remain in the ownership of the city council rather than be sold on to O'Reilly.

Dublin City Council wants a substantial retail, commercial and residential development built on the Carlton cinema site in accordance with the city's development plan.

[Blisterman]

There was talk a few years ago of turning the closed Carlton Cinema on O Connell's Street into a big shopping centre. Nothing seems to have been done. Is this still going ahead?
Are there any plans for renovating the building? It has the potential to be a really nice building. All it needs is the right renovation, and it could be an architectural highlight of Dublin, in my opinion.

What I'd like to see done is, for them to make a new entrance, get rid, of the box, where the marquee was, and put some windows in the upper stories, rather than the boards with terrible looking blue dissolve on it. The big CARLTON letters should be kept.

[jdivision]

There was talk a few years ago of turning the closed Carlton Cinema on O Connell's Street into a big shopping centre. Nothing seems to have been done. Is this still going ahead?

Search the site and you'll find extensive discussion on this including all details

[alonso]

no 16 Moore street has just been declared a national monument. The saga goes on and on

[PVC King]

Declaring a building where the 1916 rising leaders may or may not have surrendered is a complete joke; no-one was born there, died there or did anything of any substance at this location. There is no architectural merit to this building and it will ensure a gaping hole in the capital's main thoroughfare.

Tokenism on a heretofore unseen scale

[fergalr]

Welcome to Ireland!!