Carlton Cinema Development

Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby markpb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:22 am

Image

Image

Image

igy wrote:This was also my recollection, having been in Dr Quirkey's large ground floor pool area a number of years back, which my sense of direction told me was a few metres behind the façade of the Carlton. I think it was recenty enough kitted out as a casino or something, and now it's this '4D' theatre.


I was in there a number of years ago when it was an internet cafe and I have vaguely remember the internet part being in one of the old screens. It was reasonably intact back then.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby cgcsb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:56 am

Isn't the Carlton supposed be demolished and have it's facade cut off and moved down the street? How come we never heard anything about the planning of a 4d theatre. P.S. what exactly is a 4d theatre? I'm very confused.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby lostexpectation » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:13 pm

its quite a small setup actually
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_cD7wewQAk

the 4d is the moving seats :/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GDmR9lCZgw

it has water and wind aswell :)
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby cgcsb » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:04 pm

so it's baisically the same as the simulator machine at DR. Quirkeys except you get wet and cold?
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Mar 20, 2009 2:56 pm

cgcsb wrote:so it's baisically the same as the simulator machine at DR. Quirkeys except you get wet and cold?



yeah the first ride is sponsored by Dublin Bus - it simulates waiting on the quays on a november evening for a late night bus home
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby reddy » Fri Mar 20, 2009 3:04 pm

Surely someone from the city council will stroll up O' Connell St and have a conniption when they see this. For gods sake. This is the country's main street, not funderland.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:55 pm

Does this mean that the planned development is no longer going ahead? I think while there are some flaws in the overall development plan for OCS, anything is better than what is there now. Plus a project of that size, if ground broke today, would have serious positive impact on the economy and jobs... putting us in the right direction to get out of this recession.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby ihateawake » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:57 pm

I am going to burn it. Nobody say anything.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby jdivision » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:38 pm

Apparently Mr Quirkey himself is behind the signage
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Fri Apr 17, 2009 3:42 pm

Any update on what's going on with the Royal Dublin?
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby fergalr » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:19 pm

I dunno about OCS being the main street of the country any more. Seems like that honour might go to the M7 these days. But it's certainly not the main street of Dublin. The capital's civic axis is Lord Edward Street - Dame St - College Green - Grafton Street.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:50 pm

Just an update. The demolition has started on the Royal Dublin Hotel. Most of the back is gone now up to the facade
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby df1711 » Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:04 pm

fergalr wrote:I dunno about OCS being the main street of the country any more. Seems like that honour might go to the M7 these days. But it's certainly not the main street of Dublin. The capital's civic axis is Lord Edward Street - Dame St - College Green - Grafton Street.


id be inclined to agree, the only thing keeping o connell st busy on the gpo side is the people walking up to henry st and on the other side is all the bus stops.if the buses didnt use o connell st footfall would plummet.you just have to watch all the people getting off the buses and walking away from o connell st down henry,talbot and over the bridge.id consider college green to be the centre of dublin these days.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:39 pm

So... demolition is almost over, we know what exactly is going in here yet or will it be just another empty lot for huge ugly ads for dr. quirkeys or that awful 104dimensional theatre?
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby youth-decay » Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:48 pm

according to the herald last week, a decision on this scheme by An Bord Pleanala is "imminent"

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/decision-imminent-for-euro125bn-oconnell-st-plan-1804339.html

"imminent" meaning we will have a decision by Christmas no doubt...
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:14 pm

August is the expected time for a decision.

Meanwhile, as mentioned, the Royal Dublin Hotel has been demolished (with the exception of its southernmost bay to help support No. 42) in anticipation of the construction of a new office block to rehouse Dublin Bus's head office. This part of the project, which slipped neatly under the radar, looks set to go ahead as it was part of a site swap with Dublin Bus. I've yet to see plans for this building, though I think it already has approval (?).

There are doubts that the Bord will approve the Carlton remounting, while the new opening into O'Connell Street may morph into an actual street rather than the proposed 'public space'.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby PVC King » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:23 pm

Lets hope they can find a solution acceptable to all parties, I think we are all weary of the main street in the state appearing gap-toothed. That sign for Dr Quirky's is absolutely objectionable they should be prosecuted.

Fingers crossed Dublin Central can receive a decision that the planners, developers and funders are agreed upon. Tourist revenue in retail is going to be key to that sector in the next decade as domestic consumption levels off; a shopping centre at this location is better placed than anywhere to capitalise on that demand. I just hope that the decision revisions are enough to satisfy conservation observers. Issuing a clear refusal to this scheme permission would not be good and would leave the city back at square 1 sometime back in the 1990's
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Sun Jul 12, 2009 6:59 pm

I totally agree that Dublin Central must happen for the economy and OCS's future. I think it should be something looking towards the future and very grand and cool... but I just do not agree with the ski-slope design I've seen around. Oh well, I guess it would be better than what is there now.

Also, as regards to the dublin bus swap, does this mean that we might finally get rid of Dublin bus current building and maybe (fingers crossed) the Fingal Co.Co. building!?
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:50 pm

Fingal will be gone in its entirety and Dublin Bus re-faced as it is a Protected Structure with a near-fully fledged townhouse surviving behind its deceptive curtain wall. Just a correction from earlier, the RDH has vanished in its entirety, with only the gable walls left standing for the benefit of No. 42 and the AIB.

Looking at the replacement building online, permission was granted exactly a year ago. It's a standard, uncontroversial, anodyne affair, divided into two blocks to give the appearance of two buildings, one wider and taller than the other. Minimally dressed upper floors with expansive double-height retail at street level, the reinterpreted Georgian language works well with the compact No. 41 (left) but is repetitive, bland and wholly uninspired on such a large scale at No. 40 (right).

Image
© Dublin Central Architects

No. 40 was originally to be faced entirely in red brick, but this was changed by condition upon the intervention of the case planner. The use of brick on such a scale facing a visually independent major commercial building would be unprecedented on the thoroughfare. Brick dressed with stone in a contemporary manner could have been successful, but the lack of faith in modern architects to pull this off without descending into pastiche tends to draw one over to the planner's favoured comfort zone of stone only.

Both buildings are now going to be faced in granite, detailed in a manner similar to the Ussher Library in Trinity, which is quite elegant. The window opes feature an opaque light box to one side which illuminates after dark.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:53 pm

A bit over-simple, but as long as it's elegant then I'm ok with it. Granite buildings are usually very nicely finished. Will dublin bus building be redone with it's original townhouse front? What will be replacing Fingal Co.Co.? This is where Dublin Central was supposed to be moving the Carlton facade right? But with the (permanent?) delay on this are there any other options?
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby Yixian » Wed Aug 12, 2009 7:01 pm

OisinT wrote:I totally agree that Dublin Central must happen for the economy and OCS's future. I think it should be something looking towards the future and very grand and cool... but I just do not agree with the ski-slope design I've seen around. Oh well, I guess it would be better than what is there now.


Agreed, it seems to have shifted a few times though:

Image

and now

Image

I preferred the former in shape but the latter is facing the right direction (towards the Liffey). I'd like to see a tilted circular design though, would be nicer for a park.

Either way, so long as it's big enough, it'll be spectacular and a draw.


Any news on progress? Any ETA? I happen to like O'Connell Street a lot now, but with these developments in place there's no doubt that it's going to be pretty damn excellent in a few years.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby GrahamH » Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:37 pm

Everything that was required of this scheme has been achieved. The Bord delivers yet again.

PLANS FOR a 13-storey building topped by a “park in the sky” at the heart of the proposed Carlton Cinema development on O’Connell Street have been rejected by An Bord Pleanála.

OLIVIA KELLY

The board has directed developers Chartered Land to significantly scale back the overall plans for the development of the 5.5-acre site in the centre of Dublin city, and omit the 13-storey building, before it makes a final decision on permission.

The scheme pays “insufficient respect” to the classical form of O’Connell Street, involves too much demolition, and conflicts with several statutory plans for the area, the board has said.

Chartered Land, which is controlled by shopping centre developer Joe O’Reilly, was granted permission for the commercial and residential development, centred on the site of the former Carlton Cinema, by Dublin City Council last December.

This was subject to a large number of appeals to An Bord Pleanála, including several from groups seeking to protect the National Monument at number 16 Moore Street which was used by the leaders of the 1916 Rising. A public hearing on the development was held last April.

The board has this week written to Chartered Land seeking 16 significant modifications, which must be submitted before November 2nd. Chief among these is the omission of the “iconic building” – a 35-metre structure topped by a sloping public park, which was to be the focal point of the scheme. This element should be removed from the plans and the redesigned buildings should not exceed the height of the Arnott’s scheme – a neighbouring development for which the board has approved a seven-storey scale.

Despite having been granted permission from Dublin City Council, the board notes that the development is in conflict with several of the council’s statutory plans including the Architectural Conservation Area designation. The proposed scheme would disrupt the historic street pattern and was “over-scaled” in relation to the historic buildings around it.

The revised development should retain the original street pattern of the area, the extent of demolition should be reduced, and the existing buildings on Henry Street and Moore Street should be substantially retained.

The board also wants a redesign of the entrance to the development from O’Connell Street. The current proposals are for a 35-metre wide entrance partially fronted by a screen of thin, paired columns topped by a flat canopy, with the entrance buildings cut on a diagonal representing a funnel shape.

This entrance should be reduced to the width of Henry Street and set at right angles to O’Connell Street following “a traditional format” the board said. The entrance buildings should also use more traditional materials it said. Parking for the development should be reduced from 1,100 spaces to not more than 500.

While the letter imposes huge changes, it does state that the site is “general suitable for the type of development proposed”, suggesting that permission would be granted if the necessary modifications are made.

© The Irish Times
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby OisinT » Thu Aug 13, 2009 1:00 am

I don't really know of anything they planned on demolishing that isn't already total rubbish... at least not from what the plans described?!
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby ac1976 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:05 am

Does anyone have a link to ABP's letter?
I assume they rejected the park in the sky because it looked silly and was inaccesable being in the sky, Parks are usually at ground level.
I think there were also objections that the restaurants were at the top levles of the development aswell and hopefully ABP have rejected on these grounds.

It would be great to see this go ahead with some rivisions addressing these and the other issues brought up in the process.
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Re: Carlton Cinema Development

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:45 am

ac1976 wrote:Does anyone have a link to ABP's letter?
I assume they rejected the park in the sky because it looked silly and was inaccesable being in the sky, Parks are usually at ground level.
I think there were also objections that the restaurants were at the top levles of the development aswell and hopefully ABP have rejected on these grounds.

It would be great to see this go ahead with some rivisions addressing these and the other issues brought up in the process.


Oh well god forbid we should do anything different - a park in the sky, just imagine! In Calgary, Canada, there's a park indoors on the fourth level of the skyscraper, and it's marketed as a tourist attraction and is very popular. A city park combined with a magnificent view over the whole city - how is this not a good idea?
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