Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Blisterman » Wed May 12, 2010 3:41 pm

Nelson's Pillar was destroyed in 1966. The competition for the spire was in the late 90's. Had there ever been any proposals for a replacement before then? Were they seriously considered?
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby goneill » Wed May 12, 2010 4:37 pm

Yes there was a competition in 1988 with 20 schemes published by Gandon
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Blisterman » Wed May 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Really? What were the entries like? Any pictures online?
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby PVC King » Wed May 12, 2010 5:04 pm

Was the Fluzzi part of the process or just a seperate monument?
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby trace » Wed May 12, 2010 8:12 pm

Some info here (incl a pic on p153), from Yvonne Whelan's paper, Symbolising the State — the iconography of O’Connell Street and environs after Independence (1922) http://www.ucd.ie/gsi/pdf/34-2/sack-2.pdf
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby goneill » Thu May 13, 2010 10:18 am

The floosie was a seperate monument. As far as I remember its official purpose was as a memorial to a member of the Smurfit family, which caused even greater opposition to it than might otherwise have been the case. As noted in the above document John Kelly TD was especially scathing about it.
More here:
http://www.publicartaroundtheworld.com/Anna_Livia_Millennium_Fountain.html
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby fergalr » Thu May 13, 2010 2:12 pm

There was one plan to rebuild the pillar and top it with a statue of JFK or a statue of either St Mary or the Sacred Heart.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby johnglas » Thu May 13, 2010 4:24 pm

Surely the whole point is that the Pillar needed only to be partially rebuilt; most of it was still standing after the bomb and its remainder column and plinth were (allegedly) demolished on the orders of an Army engineer who must rank as a mindless moron just as much as the bombers. O'C has never quite recovered, imo.
Providence moves in mysterious ways, however, in ensuring that none of the above horrific options was realised.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby saintleger » Thu May 13, 2010 5:10 pm

trace wrote:Some info here (incl a pic on p153), from Yvonne Whelan's paper, Symbolising the State — the iconography of O’Connell Street and environs after Independence (1922) http://www.ucd.ie/gsi/pdf/34-2/sack-2.pdf


That's a great read. Interesting to think that if the terms of the trust had allowed for the replacement or removal of Nelson, we might still have the column today.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby GregF » Fri May 14, 2010 12:56 pm

johnglas wrote:Surely the whole point is that the Pillar needed only to be partially rebuilt; most of it was still standing after the bomb and its remainder column and plinth were (allegedly) demolished on the orders of an Army engineer who must rank as a mindless moron just as much as the bombers. O'C has never quite recovered, imo.
Providence moves in mysterious ways, however, in ensuring that none of the above horrific options was realised.




By right, in keeping with the street's architecture the statue of Nelson, a symbol of British power could have easily been removed from the classical column in 1966 and replaced with a classical statue of Wolfe Tone for the 50th Anniversary of the 1916 Rising. New inscription provided too at the base to mark our independance and right to self determination. But folk wouldn't have had such a gumption to think of that back then - too much intoxicated with the myths of the Catholic Church and 1916 - all happy to celebrate that weeklong violence of 1916 that destroyed the city centre whilst been overlooked by a statue of Britain's most illustrious war hero from above. Until the IRA stepped in with their handy work demonstrating what was to come from them for the next 30 odd years of the Troubles. Too bad, that our independance means nothing today either, Irish folk enslaved again with the massive debts that our inept FF government and their cronies created. The Spire is a fitting symbol, it means nothing but it's aesthetically nice eye candy. The whole makeover of O'Connell Street was a fantastic job however.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby dc3 » Sun May 16, 2010 7:07 am

As one old enough to have been up the Pillar, heard the initial explosion and seen the stump afterwards, may I comment. Could it have been rebuilt from the remains, no I do not believe so, despite appearances in photos. The stump was of course hollow and the tube cracked, of course we were kept back but it was clear that a complete rebuild would have been required.

As for suggestions as for replacements, in 1966 there were umpteen, mostly for columns topped with statues of Christ, the Blessed Virgin, Patrick Pearse, Eire etc etc. Just as well there was no money, as what we have now might be pointless but is at least inoffensive.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby gunter » Sun May 16, 2010 11:05 am

goneill wrote:Yes there was a competition in 1988 with 20 schemes published by Gandon


From memory, there were some screaming howlers in that one
. . . . must have a look around for it :)
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Blisterman » Wed May 26, 2010 4:08 pm

I could have sworn this site used to have the shortlisted competition entries from the 90's, in the unbuilt Ireland section. Has it been removed, or am I thinking of a different site?
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby helloinsane » Wed May 26, 2010 5:43 pm

I remember seeing some of the pillar models in various architects' offices in the mid nineties. I also think one of our star firms proposed restoring just the exploded portion, hanging from some form of gantry.

Anyone got a copy of Shane O'Toole's book hanging around?

http://www.amazon.com/Collaboration-Pillar-Project-Shane-OToole/dp/0946641064
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby gunter » Wed May 26, 2010 6:21 pm

helloinsane wrote:I remember seeing some of the pillar models in various architects' offices in the mid nineties. I also think one of our star firms proposed restoring just the exploded portion, hanging from some form of gantry.


Ah yes, that was the O'D + T 'Russian constructivist' pile driver.

. . . . I quite liked that one :)

Image
splendid
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby helloinsane » Wed May 26, 2010 6:27 pm

Fantastic stuff indeed. We've all come a long way.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby gunter » Wed May 26, 2010 9:17 pm

I particularly like the way the head of the reconstructed column is pinned together:

Image

A nice touch.

. . . . . other1988 classics included 'Hellraiser 2'

Image

:)
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby alonso » Wed May 26, 2010 9:39 pm

was it just the top part on the gantry or was it that PLUS the remaining stump below?
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Blisterman » Sat May 29, 2010 12:55 pm

I'm writing a dissertation on the proposals to replace Nelson's Pillar, exploring what proposals could have been and why it took so long to replace. So thanks for the help so far.
I got a copy of the book "Monument in the city" which contains some of the competition entries from the 1988 competition. There's some pretty awful ones. But, one I really liked was the Ronnie Tallon/ Michael Warren entry. I'll scan some of them in and put them up here, when I get a chance.

Also saw the three shortlisted entries from the 90's competition. I'll just say, they definitely chose the best one.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby isairishmc » Sat May 29, 2010 2:23 pm

The spire Dublin's most prominent conductive tower it would make my hair stand on end.
The spire is the manifestation of the precarious nature of competitions and stages.
It shows true competition draws condemnation and adaptation. It is only after the tide has leveled that calm sets the mood for future generations. Architecture and objectivity is the colloquial requiem of neo-religious globalized architecture that is the existing condition yearning but not learning from lessons of the past.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat May 29, 2010 3:09 pm

Some awful suggestions in that book - haven't looked at it in years - some would have dated horribly.
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat May 29, 2010 3:47 pm

Image
Fred Conlon, Derek Dockrell, Eileen McDonagh

Image
John Doherty, Peter Twamley

Image
John Keoghan

Image
Michael Kinsella, Daniel McCarthy

Image
Ronald Tallon, Michael Warren

Image
Aiden O'Connor, David O'Connor, Gerda Teljeur
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby Tayto » Sat May 29, 2010 4:15 pm

isairishmc wrote:The spire Dublin's most prominent conductive tower it would make my hair stand on end.
The spire is the manifestation of the precarious nature of competitions and stages.
It shows true competition draws condemnation and adaptation. It is only after the tide has leveled that calm sets the mood for future generations. Architecture and objectivity is the colloquial requiem of neo-religious globalized architecture that is the existing condition yearning but not learning from lessons of the past.


The head shops may be closing, but their legacy remains.:cool:
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby PTB » Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:39 pm

I spotted an 1988 pillar entry in McCullough Mulvins book Work today. They proposed a ramp down the entire length of O'Connell street, reaching a peak by parnell street, sloping to ground level where the pillar was and sloping continually into the liffey. This would have brought a channel of tidal water up in front of the GPO. There's a small image that someone else can scan and upload
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Re: Were there ever proposed replacements to Nelson's Pillar?

Postby green_jesus » Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:58 pm

It's such a shame that the Nelson statue wasn't removed and replaced with a gold harp or something.

Maybe that would have saved it from destruction.
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