Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby what? » Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:45 pm

Is it just me or are other people as sick of the shamless plugging of ODOS in the sunday times Homes section? I dont think it's an exaggeration to say that they are on the cover every second sunday with write-ups inside verging on thinly vieled advertising for the office.(e.g. from today's Homes section "even before the recession kicked in, Odos architects was one of the practices known for its willingness to talk to anyone about any project".

I cant say I blame the architects much for availing of this valuable publicity in a recession but it seems dodgy to me that when they feature architecture in the homes section it is 90% of the time ODOS work or and interview with ODOS, does Mark Keenan work in ODOS?
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby missarchi » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:08 am

I always wondered how they do it...
I do like there work very much...
What ever happened to the sham?
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby wearnicehats » Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:24 pm

what? wrote:Is it just me or are other people as sick of the shamless plugging of ODOS in the sunday times Homes section? I dont think it's an exaggeration to say that they are on the cover every second sunday with write-ups inside verging on thinly vieled advertising for the office.(e.g. from today's Homes section "even before the recession kicked in, Odos architects was one of the practices known for its willingness to talk to anyone about any project".

I cant say I blame the architects much for availing of this valuable publicity in a recession but it seems dodgy to me that when they feature architecture in the homes section it is 90% of the time ODOS work or and interview with ODOS, does Mark Keenan work in ODOS?


perhaps this will mean they might get an AAI award:rolleyes:
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby gunter » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:32 pm

what? wrote:. . . . ODOS in the sunday times Homes section?

I dont think it's an exaggeration to say that . . . . . . when they feature architecture in the homes section it is 90% of the time ODOS work or and interview with ODOS


Which project was it this time?

ODOS also had a good spread in a recent 'A + D [Building with Fibre Cement]', which I have to say is up there with 'Hot Dip Galvanizing News' as my favourite architectural monthly.

Some pics of that featured project:

Image Image

Image

Image

Pretty sharp project in all fairness, taking into account the before and after

Don't know about the full, etched glass, panel in the in the side elevations . . . . not everyone would want to parade their silhouette around the bathroom, . . . . I suppose it depends on your silhouette ;)
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:01 pm

That is indeed pretty sharp
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby onq » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:52 pm

I have to say this project blew me away, considering the rear returns of most buildings of this vintage are pretty poor.

ODOS work, its clarity of vision, its simple lines without adornment and the elegance of its design <sighs> I hate them so much!!!

Its poor unadulterated jealousy on my part - seriously, these guys are the biz.

I'd like to see them handle more complex briefs and some public buildings.

Does their work "scale up" well, or will it be too "big"/monstrous/brutalist.

Looking forward to finding out.

ONQ.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby bitasean » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:59 am

I annoys me no end, but only because their work is so consistently good and they obviously have a much better grasp of PR than most firms.

I reckon the frequency of their appearance in the ST is a happy marriage between having designed decent projects and actually paying a PR firm to get the articles written, this is how most of the articles end up in the business pages afterall. Nothing underhanded about it just the way newspapers work. I would suggest however that paying a PR company is the easy part and being a good designer with balls and talent is by far the trickier part.

good luck to them I say.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby DOC » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:05 am

Yeah, always struck me they must have very good PR. While it does annoy me (the apparant excessive publicity not their designs), the other part of me says fair play to them.

The other side is that newspapers are always crying out to show off architects wares but amazingly few are forthcoming! Heard this from a PR consultant who deals with architects.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby what? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Unlike most of you, I really dont like thier work - for me its banal, facile and flash. there is no explorative aspect past the formation of a sensational photo, which is their main architectural currency.

The interior planning of thier houses (on the rare occasions I have seen them published) contains some particularily nasty occurances, betraying to me, a willingness to let the integrity of the architecture suffer for the sake of the photograph.

i guess this is why the homes section bugs me so much - there are a lot of serious, thoughtful practices out there yet it is consistantly this flash, facile stuff thats rammed down the publics throats every sunday, with the inevitable result that joe public thinks 'this is architecture'.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby gunter » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:15 pm

I would have thought that what? would have jumped in to defend this project, since the design of those ODOS returns would seem to draw so heavily on that laboratory building in UCD by O'D+T Architects . . . . does it not?

A lot of what?'s criticisms of the ODOS project would seem to stick equal well, or equally badly, to that particular project.

I agree, up to a point, that in order to achieve that level of architectural purity, there may have been some compromises on the functionality side, openable windows and the like, but certainly in this instance that all looks like a price worth paying.

Who'd have thought that the Blue-Peter milk-carton periscope would make a return . . . . as a return ;)
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby what? » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:33 pm

the relationship between the ODOS and OD+T projects mentioned is purely facile, which, is my point.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby DOC » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:45 pm

Could be back next Sunday! :D Hot off the presses:

The Sunday Times Home Section which regularly covers contemporary architecture on one-off homes, is interested in hearing from members (RIAI) for their input into the following pieces due for publication this coming Sunday, 21 February 2010.

(1) The Great Unbuilt

Contemporary homes which were commissioned or designed, but for some reason, were never built. Home Ireland editor Mark Keenan is looking for computer generated images and strong graphic depictions of distinctive one-off homes which were never actually constructed. It’s a chance to show off the designs no one has ever seen. Ten years ago Keenan did a similar piece which showed the public the unseen designs of Sam Stephenson, Michael Scott and other leading architects. It generated quite a stir. This is for one-off homes only.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby bitasean » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:09 pm

OD+T dont do extensions so why bother comparing an ODOS extension to a completely different kind of project? One involves trying to build the portfolio of a burgeoning practice with limited resources while the other involves carte blanche acceptance of what the architect suggests and a much bigger budget for design exploration and execution of the works.

Cant wait to see the unbuilt section.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby foremanjoe » Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:26 pm

gunter wrote:I agree, up to a point, that in order to achieve that level of architectural purity, there may have been some compromises on the functionality side, openable windows and the like, but certainly in this instance that all looks like a price worth paying.


Is context another one of the elements worth sacrificing in this pursuit of 'architectural purity'?
One of my problems with ODOS' work is a lack of regard for context. Some of their buildings look like they would be more appropriate in Tokyo than, let's say, Grangegorman. Maybe they're just progressive...
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby mark keenan » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:53 pm

Te he...

This is Mark Keenan, I wrote the article.

This mail actually made me finally get off my behind and register with this truly orgasmically excellent (shameless plug?) web site.

Yes it's true we have shamelessly featured one ODOS project after the next over a period of a couple of years. We have also featured many other well known names in Irish architure but yes, ODOS work has been shown in our publication more than anyone else's.

There are a number of reasons for this:


1. Shortage of projects

For obvious reasons very little work has been commissioned by way of contemporary one-off homes in these last few years. We therefore gravitate to the few practices who are producing. While we have featured work by almost every truly great Irish practice over the last ten years, lately there seems to be only a handful wrorking through commissions of the sort that we like to cover.

2. ODOS - its respective talents

In the Home Ireland pages of the Sunday Times, we try to show our readers what's new and great in modern Irish architecture. ODOS work is always original, eyecatching, exciting - all the reasons we want to feature it and why our readers want to see it.

ODOS are also unusually prolific and they come out with one stunning project after another in rapid succession. Do we ignore the likes of Thor Place and The Rathmines Returns simply because we've featured ODOS before? We decided not.

3. Willingness to talk and expose their work to the public eye

- ODOS are among the best self marketeers out there, which is also probably one of the reasons (apart from their obvious talent) why they have so much work coming in.

4. The general unwillingness of other practices to have their work in a newspaper

- Yes ODOS are (as I very pointedly wrote) "willing to talk to anyone about any project." Pointedly said because so many other practices simply won't have their work shown off and actually tend to guard it and hide it as if its the last secret of Fatima.

Indeed over years and years I have approached/implored one award winning practice after another for permission to publish and showcase their work (they know who they are, and I'm not going to have a go at them in a public forum) only to be turned down flat, sometimes rudely so.

Indeed many of Ireland's most talented home designers react to a request for an interview and pictures as if we're looking to give them bubonic plague, pull their teeth, steal their souls, or force them into some hardcore neo Georgian graft round Kinnegad way.

We have turned down others ourselves because they demand to choose the pictures and write/censor the articles. I have interviewed some reflective souls for an hour or more only to come away with nothing but a notebook full of: "I wouldn't say that...." Indeed I once found myself in the ridiculous position of commissioning a sneaky shoot of some top mews work from one top practice which "forbid" us from covering it.

At some point we put up our hands and said.."let them be.."

Numerous attempts by Home Ireland to publicly showcase Ireland's considerable design talent via the various architectural awards have come up against embargos - those which favour specialist magazines of the sort that nobody except architects (certainly not their clients) actually reads. Writers with other general newspapers and glossies have also fumed with me on this one.

Last year the difficulties I experienced culminated in me actually contacting an awards judge and senior Institute figure to request that the issue of publicity value be raised in some way among members.

I argued that Irish architecture just isn't getting into the big picture with the public (our paper for example, is read by 400,000 weekly in Ireland - some 70,000 more than the Irish Times).

The last decade has been a truly great one for Irish architecture but too many Joe Soaps still don't understand the profession's worth. We try to show that and indeed we cover more domestic architecture than any other paper. And if punters don't see examples of great Irish architecture in the papers they read then they're more likely to hire Bodge the Builder to throw up a crap extension instead of paying the same money to a navel gazing young genius in order to end up with something truly special. Something which improves their lives and keeps our ng genius employed.

Coincidentally, before I saw this item raised here, I had just approached the RIAI with the suggestion of regular "mass mail outs" to members on various subjects on which we at the Sunday Times Home Section are seeking input for forthcoming features.

For example, this coming Sunday we're doing a piece on "Unbuilt Ireland - the homes which never were" (ODOS is barred this time) and a piece on hemp house building. Anyone eager to submit work or impart professional wisdom on either can call me at 01-4792438. The results have been encouraging for us - the former has actually had a very good response and is likely to run to two part series.

At the Sunday Times we want to bring our readers exciting, contemporary homes. So come on in ....if you're hard enough...

PS: And to Mr/Ms What?'s specifically ...

(a) No I don't work in ODOS.
(b) Pray do tell who you are - if you're an architect, you might have better work for us to publish....
(c) Yes I agree, it is really annoying ..... so I propose we solve this heated matter once and for all, by proposing a dual embargo from both institutes on ODOS to prevents them from banging out one top class project after another...or to at least slow them down just a little.

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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby OisinT » Tue Feb 16, 2010 7:56 pm

foremanjoe wrote:Is context another one of the elements worth sacrificing in this pursuit of 'architectural purity'?
One of my problems with ODOS' work is a lack of regard for context. Some of their buildings look like they would be more appropriate in Tokyo than, let's say, Grangegorman. Maybe they're just progressive...

The one off they have there is amazing in person, I would have to totally disagree. I think the few modern places really look amazing compared to some of the ugly run down stuff in the area.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby foremanjoe » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:12 pm

I remember reading an article on the house in Grangegorman (in the Sunday Times Home Section of course) and there was a humorous reference made to the observations of a child who, when asked about the house, replied that it reminded her of a fridge. This was glossed over as if to say "Kids, how funny and innocent they are..." but I couldn't help but note the similarity to the tale of the Emperor's New Clothes, where it is also a child that eventually points out that the Emperor is, in fact, naked.

If you can't see it, then you just don't get it...tsk.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby DOC » Tue Feb 16, 2010 9:48 pm

Maybe What? works for ODOS? ;)
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby gunter » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:00 pm

This is getting surreal

. . . . and now foremanjoe is using the Emperor's New Clothes analogy

foremanjoe wrote:. . . . I couldn't help but note the similarity to the tale of the Emperor's New Clothes . . .


. . . . the man who gave us this, from another thread:

foremanjoe wrote:. . . . I wish you people would lay off IMMA


:)
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby foremanjoe » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:29 pm

Nice one Guntah.

Your disregard for context is most appropriate considering my argument against ODOS.

The full text of the comment you referenced above was:

"I wish you people would lay off IMMA.

And I wish IMMA would stop giving you people more ammo.

I'm in a horrible position here.

I was hoping that you IMMA-haters would have stopped visiting there by now, but you seem to love going back there just to pick holes in it. I wish I could record a video of some of you walking around the place scoffing to yourselves, and that's without even looking at the art!
"
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby GrahamH » Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:56 pm

Is it their house style I wonder to take inspiration from previous commissions?

Image



Image

Ooops, I posted reality. My apologies. Back to sweet, sultry twilight.

Image

Phew.
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby KerryBog2 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:24 am

That return reminds me of the Citicorp building in MidTown.
http://www.emporis.com/application/?nav=building&id=citigroupcenter-newyorkcity-ny-usa&lng=3
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby missarchi » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:22 am

"" green n purple like a floopy disk drive...

http://www.nmauk.co.uk/nma/do/live/homePopulate

journalists are caught in a rock and a hard place just like architects...
oreally... half a billion schools for thought...
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby what? » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:33 pm

Mark K.

Interesting to see it from the other perspective - I can believe that the point you give about certain architects being snotty about having thier work in the Homes section.

However I imagine that there are also a lot of talented, less established architects out there that would give thier eye teeth to be featured. I think the move for open call for submissions is a very positive one and should open the door to more variety in the section.

regardless of your/ my opinion on the quality of ODOS' architecture, the almost exclusive featuring of one architect can only undermine the integrity of the section.

I think the ST homes section is extremley important to Irish architecture, as it is probably the most important interface between the general public and Architecture in the country. hence my frustration at the lack of variety in the work featured. (when it did vary it became a very interesting read i.e. grainne hassetts house in the woods)
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Re: Shameless plugging of ODOS in Homes Section

Postby mark keenan » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:57 pm

Thanks for that. ; )

I'm glad the thread was opened.

Interestingly a rather excellent extension by FKL was the cover project of that particular issue...

And as I said, we are indeed open to all ideas. At the moment we're looking for eyecatching unbuilt one-off homes for a two parter called "Unbuilt Ireland" running this sunday and next sunday. These can even be college projects designed by students or trial projects by young practices, just so long as the graphics are usable.

But once gain, the big picture is that there are only a handful of practices out there completing contemporary domestic work at the moment and still fewer who will let us publish their work.

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