IMMA / RHK Dublin

Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby johnglas » Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:14 pm

What art? (Couldn't help myself!)
I hope the original doors haven't ended up in a skip, before they're ordered to be reinstated. If they have, then the DCC paddy-wagons should be sirening their way along to Kilmainham. The one thing you can say about arts administration/management is that it doesn't exist; this will have been a panic reaction by one permanently near-hysterical 'administrator' whose idea of 'heritage' goes back no further than the last panic. What's a pair of 17thC doors? This is for CONTEMPORARY arts! The only things (apart from the complex irtself) worth seeing are the former chapel and the dining hall, and they're normally kept locked; shame that's where the art is.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby StephenC » Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:30 pm

Its worth stating that the "original" doors may actually NOT be 17thC or whatever but could well have been put up in 1982. In fact they look pretty mundane. Notwithstanding that, aluminium! Are they for real!
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:53 pm

StephenC wrote:Its worth stating that the "original" doors may actually NOT be 17thC or whatever but could well have been put up in 1982. In fact they look pretty mundane. Notwithstanding that, aluminium! Are they for real!



exactly stephen
it's highly unlikely they are original in the true sense of the word - but the new additions are quite crude
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby gunter » Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:57 pm

foremanjoe wrote:I wish you people would lay off IMMA.

And I wish IMMA would stop giving you people more ammo.

I'm in a horrible position here.

I was hoping that you IMMA-haters would have stopped visiting there by now, but you seem to love going back there just to pick holes in it. I wish I could record a video of some of you walking around the place scoffing to yourselves, and that's without even looking at the art!


It's on my route, there's nothing I can do about it:)

As for visitor numbers and catching gunter on video tape, . . . . . shouldn't be too difficult, I'd be the one there!

IMMA-haters! ! come on now foremanjoe, that's a bit immature. Nobody around here hates IMMA, it's more a matter of pity and anyway the real villains of the piece are not IMMA, but the OPW. They're the one that creamed off the windfall profits from the sale of the former RHK lands on Military Road (in partnership with Eircom) without ploughing anything back into Kilmainham, they're the ones that put in the vast surface carpark at the RHK using the blatant lie that the visitor numbers required it, and they're the ones that now lease half the carpark, on a nod and a wink basis, to their buddies in Eircom, whose brand new office block seems to be about 200 car park spaces short of the level of demand etc. etc.

For the record, I was minding my own business (more or less) when I, unexpectedly, encountered your appalling aluminium doors.

StephenC wrote:Its worth stating that the "original" doors may actually NOT be 17thC or whatever . . .


Don't know for sure, but they were heavy timber doors and they had lots of metal studs and brackets holding them together, which would suggest that they've been there a long time.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby foremanjoe » Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:40 pm

gunter wrote:IMMA-haters! ! come on now foremanjoe, that's a bit immature.


Love it.
Tip o' the cap to you good sir.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:37 pm

Nothing surprises me anymore. What on earth is going on? We all know Kilmainham is a world unto itself out there in the wilds (;)), but even by its wayward standards this development takes the biscuit. I can't imagine that anything other than heavy-handed security is dictating these events. Surely fire standards do not require measures of this calibre for external doors? (and for which, in any event, Protected Structures are exempt).

In hindsight, the doors were installed in the south range earlier in the year, but those hideous setts proved too much of a distraction at the time to notice. For fear of a clout from foremanjoe, I shall say no more on the matter, only than at the launch of John McCullen's new book on the Park, held in RHK last week, there was universal agreement as to just how disagreeable they are.

Image


The same smart paths could easily have been laid across a compacted earth and gravel surface.

Image


William Robinson's calp and sandstone arcades are one of the express survivors of the original 17th century exterior fabric.

Image



Image



Image


Only a fragment of its closest equivalent survives at Dublin Castle. In this case, the calp and sandstone arcade of the Upper Yard's south-western range (as also modified by Master of The Infill, Francis Johnston), was in effect designed by William Robinson, but in reality executed by Thomas Burgh as his successor as Surveyor General in 1712.

Image

Conversely, what parts that were built by Robinson no longer survive, so we must look to the Royal Hospital for the genuine article.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby missarchi » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:13 am

GrahamH wrote:. I can't imagine that anything other than heavy-handed security is dictating these events. [/IMG]


they keep the shams in there... Can't remember one piece of x I would like to have on the mantle piece
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby gunter » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:51 pm

Magnificent photographs Graham, as always.

You're never sure with IMMA whether the irony is intentional. Going to a museum to see the cobblestones lifted from actual Dublin streets is a case in point.

Thanks to foremanjoe's paranoia about archiseekers showing up at IMMA and not carrying themselves with the appropriate level of deference, we got no advance notice of an event there on 7 November, with the pertinent title of ''What is modern art?''

So near, and yet so far :)

Still, you miss one bus and another one comes along.

[INDENT]Public Forum on Amalgamation
Date: Wednesday 18 November 2009

Venue: Irish Museum of Modern Art

A public forum on the amalgamation of the Irish Museum of Modern Art, the National Gallery of Ireland and the Crawford Art Gallery in Cork, announced by the Government in 2008, will be held at the Irish Museum of Modern Art on Wednesday 18 November. The event is being organised by IMMA both as a means of exploring further the possible impact of the decision on the Museum and in response to the many queries which IMMA has received on the subject from visitors, artists, collectors and other stakeholders.

The forum aims to provide a cross section of perspectives on the amalgamation, both for and against, from a wide-ranging panel of speakers. In addition to drawing together the various strands of opinion on the issue, it will also make available the experience of international colleagues who have operated within, or been involved in setting up, an amalgamated structure and will give interested parties within Ireland the opportunity to contribute to the debate.

Programme

Date: Wednesday 18 November 2009

9.30 Participants arrive. Tea/coffee available

10.00 Chair, Terry Prone welcoming address

10.05 Eoin McGonigal, Chairperson, IMMA.

10.15 Two international directors speak of their personal experience of
operating within/setting up an amalgamated structure

Michael Houlihan, Director General, National Museum Wales

Sune Nordgren, Founding Director of the National Museum of Art,
Architecture and Design, Oslo, currently Project Manager at the Kivik Art
Centre and the Museum Vandalorum in Sweden.

11.00 Noel Kelly, Director, Visual Artists Ireland.
Jacinta Lynch, Director, Broadstone Studios
Patrick T Murphy, Director, Royal Hibernian Academy

11.30 Tea/coffee

11.50 Jim Power, economist
Pat Cooke, Director, School of Art History and Cultural Policy, University
College Dublin

12.20 Mike Fitzpatrick, Head of School, Limerick School of Art and Design.
Brian Fay, artist, lecturer and member of IMMA’s Artists’ Panel

12.40 Lunch (including time for media interviews)

13.45 Anthony Cronin, writer and Saoi of Aosdána

13.55 Hughie O’Donoghue, artist
Jaki Irvine, artist
Jerome Ó Drisceoil, Director, Green on Red Gallery

14.25 Enrique Juncosa, Director, IMMA.

14.40 Tea/coffee

15.00 Round table discussions (or general open questions and answers)

15.30 Feedback from round tables

16.00 Chair draws forum to a close, with summary of conclusions [/INDENT]

What do we think? Is an amalgamation the way to go?

The Crawford has the location, the National Gallery has the pictures, and IMMA has the car park . . . . it could work :rolleyes:
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:43 pm

I may be sacrilegious or just plain barmy but has anyone ever mooted glazing in all or some of the courtyard ? I go there a lot and it's a nice space but completely desolate. The potential for an exhibition space seems obvious. It also struck me watching this year's National Day of Commemoration
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby rumpelstiltskin » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:32 pm

wearnicehats wrote:I may be sacrilegious or just plain barmy but has anyone ever mooted glazing in all or some of the courtyard ? I go there a lot and it's a nice space but completely desolate. The potential for an exhibition space seems obvious. It also struck me watching this year's National Day of Commemoration


Good idea. Or a better idea: why not sell the building to whoever will buy it, and use the money to buy a decent modern art collection for the State.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby notjim » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:21 pm

rumpelstiltskin wrote:Good idea. Or a better idea: why not sell the building to whoever will buy it, and use the money to buy a decent modern art collection for the State.


I think they do quite well with their acquisitions, they only buy contemporary art its true and hope providence will provide as far as the past is concerned, but I amn't sure that isn't the correct policy and within they seem to do very well.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby fergalr » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:41 pm

wearnicehats wrote:I may be sacrilegious or just plain barmy but has anyone ever mooted glazing in all or some of the courtyard ? I go there a lot and it's a nice space but completely desolate. The potential for an exhibition space seems obvious. It also struck me watching this year's National Day of Commemoration


The National Day of Commemoration... could they hold it in a more remote location for fewer people if they tried??
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby foremanjoe » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:45 pm

fergalr wrote:The National Day of Commemoration... could they hold it in a more remote location for fewer people if they tried??


Have you ever been to the midlands fergalr?

A cold shiver ran down my spine just typing that word...
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby fergalr » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:08 pm

foremanjoe wrote:Have you ever been to the midlands fergalr?

A cold shiver ran down my spine just typing that word...


Lol you know what I mean. It's not exactly equivalent to the Cenotaph on Whitehall.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby gunter » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:22 am

wearnicehats wrote:I may be sacrilegious or just plain barmy but has anyone ever mooted glazing in all or some of the courtyard ?


Hold on there hats, when I wanted to take out the boundary walls, develop the St. John's Road frontage, urbanize the edges of the formal gardens and turn the grounds into a 'town park', weren't you the one that said:

[INDENT]''leave - it - alone''[/INDENT]
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:58 am

gunter wrote:Hold on there hats, when I wanted to take out the boundary walls, develop the St. John's Road frontage, urbanize the edges of the formal gardens and turn the grounds into a 'town park', weren't you the one that said:

[INDENT]''leave - it - alone''[/INDENT]


I was just suggesting that an existing unused space could be utilised with the minimum of effort without necessarily jeopardising the integrity of what's there already. Your suggestion was to allow the city to infiltrate the sanctum of the formal gardens - completely different and worrying scenario
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby gunter » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:24 am

I think the 'sanctum' has been 'infiltrated' by the city already, with more city blocks permitted, my earlier suggestion aimed to acknowledge this by containing and attempting to balance the urban edges and perhaps, in so doing, protect the qualities of the sanctum.

Your suggestion isn't bad either, [works for the British Museum], but as you say, a bit barmy for the RHK :)
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby Service charge » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:34 am

Paid my first trip to RHK last weekend.

I was appalled. The purpose of my visit was to see the exhibition of New York photos. It was a great way to spend an afternoon.

Unfortunately I then went about touring the rest of the 'museum'. I not going to bash on about the lack of exhibitions or their quality.

Rather I was more annoyed about how the building is being conserved and managed.

My first shock was not being able to view the chapel or hall. One of the most important buildings in Ireland and it is closed to public viewing. Yet 100 yards away staff are provided to allow access to utter crap of no long term importance.

Worse are the cars. Cars are directed to drive around three sides of the building to a large car park. So as you take a leisurely walk towards the garden you are forced to walk on the grass to avoid getting run over. I also imagine that the fumes from all these cars driving yards from the building can't be good.

Next to feel my rage was the suits of armor, originally sitting on the gates, now housed next to the toilets. Apparently these have been lovingly conserved, yet one is missing its head and the removal of paint work seems to have done plenty of damage. And it seems not a scrap of research was ever commissioned into their origins.

The rest has been covered in the other threads.

OPW need a good kick in the aras.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby Yixian » Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:00 am

RHK quite simply needs to be used for something else; a public library, a portrait gallery, I always thought a medical museum/gallery would be appropriate, perhaps with lots of various body bits in jars, strange old instruments and what not.

Then the period interiors could be restored.

And perhaps outdoor opera etc. in the garden during the summer? Well lit with good quality tents and a decent removable (or permanent?) stage? Would be beautiful.

It's just about the single worst building in all of Ireland to house the irish modern art gallery.

Like Ciarán Cuffe suggested, IMMA should be in a renovated Guinness Brewery building.

City planning isn't hard it just requires singular visions to trump committee thinking, RHK smacks of some DCC panel unable to decide on how to spend any money building a new structure and plumping with the old "massacre a landmark" option.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby saintleger » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:07 pm

City planning isn't hard it just requires singular visions to trump committee thinking, RHK smacks of some DCC panel unable to decide on how to spend any money building a new structure and plumping with the old "massacre a landmark" option.


I think it was Charlie Haughey who shoehorned it in.
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Re: IMMA / RHK Dublin

Postby tommyt » Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:45 pm

Yixian wrote:RHK quite simply needs to be used for something else; a public library, a portrait gallery, I always thought a medical museum/gallery would be appropriate, perhaps with lots of various body bits in jars, strange old instruments and what not.

Then the period interiors could be restored.

And perhaps outdoor opera etc. in the garden during the summer? Well lit with good quality tents and a decent removable (or permanent?) stage? Would be beautiful.

It's just about the single worst building in all of Ireland to house the irish modern art gallery.

Like Ciarán Cuffe suggested, IMMA should be in a renovated Guinness Brewery building.

City planning isn't hard it just requires singular visions to trump committee thinking, RHK smacks of some DCC panel unable to decide on how to spend any money building a new structure and plumping with the old "massacre a landmark" option.


Would agree with a lot of that, lucid thinking. Incidentally UCD in Earlsfort tce has (had?) an amazing pathology museum not open to the public that is fascinatingly gruesome.

St. Ledge is correct- it was one of CJ's pet projects to get 'something' in there. The idea of the houses of the Oireachtas moving there was mooted for ages.
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