CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby brianpricer » Thu Feb 04, 2010 8:51 pm

I like it.......anything is an improvement on what is already there.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby missarchi » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:30 pm

I can't tell if that is white stone or render on the side of the building?
Anyway some colour or fake windows would be great...
I find planning bemusing hine:rolleyes:

http://www.ibstock.com/glazed-bricks-colour.asp
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Bago » Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:49 pm

missarchi wrote:I can't tell if that is white stone or render on the side of the building?
Anyway some colour or fake windows would be great...
I find planning bemusing hine:rolleyes:

http://www.ibstock.com/glazed-bricks-colour.asp

That's bizarre just checked out that site an hour ago, some nicer shades here
http://www.ibstock.com/glazed-bricks-colour-select.asp
went on a glazed brick bender
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dreamyshade/galleries/72157622246160801/
http://www.ibstock.com/glazed-bricks-gallery-3.asp

Somehow wouldn't hold my breath for such craftsmanship, chrome, glass and polished granite is all i'm imagining.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby thebig C » Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:25 am

Hmmmm I thought that ABP had rejected this? Was there an appeal? Even with the approval looks like they did their usual trick of knocking a few random floors off. The original was supposed to be about 60m to mirror Liberty hall. So at 49m looks likes a slight trim rather then a ifsc phase 2 crew cut:)

Looking at the render, it looks a bit more squat then I remember. I wonder if they could have retained the extra floors but insisted on setbacks, being staggered gradually away from the Liffey. That might have diminished any overshadowing.

That said, its better then whats there now. The only thing that does worry me, all this investment in Tara St guarantees there will be no chance of removing the Loop-line....which I think, ulike all the crappy office blocks and apartments, is actually the biggest travesty and eyesore in Dublin!

C
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Bago » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:04 pm

Would appear to have 3 floors removed from previous mockups.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Yixian » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:16 pm

ABP asked for this to be shorter and have "less of an impact on the Customs House", so expect.. very little.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Feb 06, 2010 1:57 am

That is the revised design in the images on archiseek.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby fergalr » Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:53 pm

Yixian wrote:ABP asked for this to be shorter and have "less of an impact on the Customs House", so expect.. very little.


What impact could it have on the Custom House? It's across the river!
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Bago » Sat Feb 06, 2010 3:32 pm

fergalr wrote:What impact could it have on the Custom House? It's across the river!
maybe APB has taken on some hong kong feng shui consultants! By their reckonings SIPTU and the liberty would be screwed.
http://ezinearticles.com/?Feng-Shui-of-the-Bank-of-China-Tower-(Hong-Kong)&id=3686619
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby JoePublic » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:58 pm

Revised scheme looks pretty reasonable compared with the original: this is no dublin central ABP hatchet job.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Cathal Dunne » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:32 am

So this building is definitely going ahead? That's great if it is. It has been knocked about by ABP but that's to be expected in a city afraid of anything ambitious. Even this slightly diluted project will be an improvement on the existing buildings and will be a new and welcome addition to the city. It'll help create a few jobs as well which will be good in these depressed times.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby notjim » Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:39 am

Not at all Cathal; I don't think it says anywhere that they have a partner signed up to develop this, I doubt it will happen in the near future. This just means they have planning permission.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Yixian » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:26 am

It's literally identical, just with 25% chopped off the top. Could be worse, although the height was nice.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Paul Clerkin » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:18 pm

CIÉ will now seek a development partner as part of the detailed design phase, allowing for the works to be scheduled. The construction programme is envisaged to take approximately 2 years, and a 10-year planning permission has been granted.

o that could mean several years before start
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby aj » Sun Jun 05, 2011 10:42 pm

looks like they started judging by the demolitions on Tara Street this weekend
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby darkman » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:39 pm

Really? Hope so. Be great to see movement on something significant.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby kceire » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:02 pm

darkman wrote:Really? Hope so. Be great to see movement on something significant.


i've heard these demolitions were simply some tidy up work on the site and that the buildings demolished were demolished under the dangerous buildings act, and have nothing got to do with the major/approved development.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby StephenC » Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:13 pm

I think that is quite likely
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Cathal Dunne » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:13 pm

It would be a shame if that demolition work was only to adhere to the Dangerous Buildings Act. The Tara Street Development has the potential to add another fine building to our skyline, improve the fabric of the Tara Street area (ie, reduce the prevalence of 'dead frontage') and improve the experience of waiting for the train at Tara Street. Having a covered platform will make the wait for a DART more amenable in rainy Dublin,

Even though Dublin has a high commercial property vacancy rate, it still would be possible to proceed with this predominantly office-based development. This is due to the fact that there has been precious little new and thus higher building-quality office development in Dublin in the last three years. Modern companies demand high standards in terms of energy efficiency, ICT facilities and so on. Much of the current vacant office space in Dublin do not meet these standards and would need extensive renovation to do so. Moreover, with the likes of BNY Mellon and the Central Bank looking for large new offices, the Tara Street Tower could be what they're looking for.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Jun 30, 2011 4:17 pm

An article in yesterday's commercial property section of the Irish Times supports my post above. A lot of vacant offices in Dublin are of insufficiently high quality or size to be attractive to companies looking for space. Most of them now demand Grade A or A1-standard offices and many of the buildings currently sporting "To Let" signs simply do not measure up to that standard. Conversely high quality offices like Montevetro and Trinity Central have been snapped up by tenants and purchasers. Given that the Tara Street Tower will probably be Grade A1 and that we have a lot of organisations looking for a large quantity of space (eg, the Central Bank, BNY Mellon, Marketo) then there's an opportunity here. CIÉ could start work on the site early next year and have it finished by the end of 2014. There's a good chance the economy will have recovered a bit by then and that there will be tenants ready to move in.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby PVC King » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:06 pm

I agree you need to take account of building obscelecence; certain occupiers will spend so much money on a fit out that they need a 15 or 20 year term to depreciate it; at the end of the term they do not want to renew and commit to a refit of a building that would have a configuration designed for 30-40 years prior to their second term expiry date.

To capitalise on a two speed market the trick is to have the site ready to go and a build that can be done completely in 2 years so that office agents can market off plan. Ireland isn't just open for business its got an army of educated professional graduates and the best real estate incentives in the OECD. How long it takes European politicians to stop kicking Ireland around like a football is the unquantifiable variable......
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Cathal Dunne » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:15 pm

PVC King wrote:

To capitalise on a two speed market the trick is to have the site ready to go and a build that can be done completely in 2 years so that office agents can market off plan. Ireland isn't just open for business its got an army of educated professional graduates and the best real estate incentives in the OECD. How long it takes European politicians to stop kicking Ireland around like a football is the unquantifiable variable......


So you would agree with me that Tara Street Tower should probably be developed in the short to medium-term?
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby PVC King » Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:58 am

I think that this strategically located business space opportunity should have detailed project management consultancy undertaken to have a phasing plan produced that can be delivered within a two year period; this is something that should be done across a number of live planning consents.

All of these oppportunites should be actively marketed; occupational demand should decide what gets developed and when it gets developed; this is not just a Dublin thing, outside core markets like Shanghai, Sydney and London the days of safe speculative development with no pre let in place prior to ground being broken are firmly suspended. That however does not mean that well located parcels of land need to rot indefinitely; what could produce a higher return on new investment in a high number of locations?
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby Cathal Dunne » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:59 pm

PVC King wrote:I think that this strategically located business space opportunity should have detailed project management consultancy undertaken to have a phasing plan produced that can be delivered within a two year period; this is something that should be done across a number of live planning consents.

All of these oppportunites should be actively marketed; occupational demand should decide what gets developed and when it gets developed; this is not just a Dublin thing, outside core markets like Shanghai, Sydney and London the days of safe speculative development with no pre let in place prior to ground being broken are firmly suspended. That however does not mean that well located parcels of land need to rot indefinitely; what could produce a higher return on new investment in a high number of locations?


I take your point that the commercial property market is more cautious and less active than before the global financial crisis but the Tara Street Tower would have significant strengths. It is located in the heart of the city, has excellent transport links, would be built to the highest standards, has large floorplates and has a landmark quality. Moreover if construction began next year, it would be coming to market in 2014/15 when the economy should be a lot stronger domestically and internationally. Therefore there should be demand for such a property at that time and CIÉ would reap a significant profit.
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Re: CIE's €100 million Tara Street Station construction

Postby PVC King » Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:25 pm

I agree that as scheme it would work very well; from an urban regeneration point of view it would be real progress. The time just isn't right for construction of offices without a pre-let in place. Dublin if it is organised can through marketing designs and then building on the basis of agreements for lease; stay well ahead of the curve.


The first thing that needs to change is the elimination of large properties from the alteration to the rent review position. How can anyone go to site when they don't know what their income stream will be after the first five years? A sensible rent limit needs to be set say €25,000 p.a. and let corner shops survive but not create complete paralysis across the wider built environment field.
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