Block G Spencer Dock

Block G Spencer Dock

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:14 pm

Image


Anyone have any info on this? First time ive ever seen it before. Its on the Treasury Holdings website. 19 storeys apparently.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby gunter » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:27 pm

Who is responsible for this?
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:31 pm

gunter wrote:Who is responsible for this?


I dont know but it looks nice. I guess its part of the overall Spencer Dock development.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby johnglas » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:59 pm

I'm trying hard not to be controversial, but this - nice?! See how effortlessly it dialogues with the old hotel and soars majestically above all this hubbub about context, style, scale, etc. Clearly, all these concerns are just for little buildings!
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby paul h » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:05 pm

Im certainly not qualified but does the sprawling manky looking blob to the left - 'dialogue with the old hotel' :confused:
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby johnglas » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:10 pm

paul h: got it in one!
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby gunter » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:28 pm

paul h: I think johnglas is right, it (the Pricewaterhouse Coopers building) does, in a way, dialogue with the hotel, although I hadn't heard that term in a while.

There is a similar attempt to address the river with a considerable degree of self importance, but neither building up-stages the Conference Centre, which is the only 'public building' east of the Custom House, unless you count the Point.

This 19 storey interloper could be anywhere, of any scale, any height, it could face in any direction, in it's design, there is nothing to suggest that it responds, in any way, to it's context. This is what planning officials are put on this earth to stop.

If this is a foretaste of the 'Liffey Island', we're in big trouble.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby cgcsb » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:29 pm

well it sure is alot more attractive than that hideous thing that was proposed, the national conference center hotel.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:34 pm

The moaners are out in force I see. Its this attitude that has the Dublin skyline in the state it is in. Nothing is ever good enough.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby cgcsb » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:45 pm

Image

is this conference center hotel thing actually going ahead? I thought it was refused
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:48 pm

cgcsb wrote:well it sure is alot more attractive than that hideous thing that was proposed, the national conference center hotel.


I still think the hotel is a fine building..... this is just more bling
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby notjim » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:55 pm

Now the NCC hotel I like, my favourite proposed tower, but this looks like something you would build by a ring road.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby cgcsb » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:20 pm

you mean a ring road like the near by M50 which terminates at East Wall Road via the port tunnel?
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:27 pm

notjim wrote:Now the NCC hotel I like, my favourite proposed tower, but this looks like something you would build by a ring road.



I think that looks better then the NCC hotel. The NCC hotel has a bit of Hawkins House revisited about it :/ Having said that it could work in its location. A nice little cluster of proposals down there now that could give a half decent skyline.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:28 pm

darkman wrote:The moaners are out in force I see. Its this attitude that has the Dublin skyline in the state it is in. Nothing is ever good enough.


couldn't agree more. This site stopped being about critique a long time ago. Now it's just a forum for people who saw a nice building once but can't quite remember when where or why they thought so.

If you can't judge a building on its architectural merits - or lack of - go and join An Taisce.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby notjim » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:30 pm

cgcsb wrote:you mean a ring road like the near by M50 which terminates at East Wall Road via the port tunnel?


Yes, in fact, East Point would be the perfect location for this piece of blandness.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby darkman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:32 pm

notjim wrote:Yes, in fact, East Point would be the perfect location for this piece of blandness.


And the U2 tower and Watchtower are any better?:rolleyes:
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby notjim » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:49 pm

Well I think the Watchtower is a classic ordinary decent residential tower, no big deal but, assuming the materials and finish are good, I will be happy to see it built; the U2 tower, with it pretense towards the iconic, I find incoherent and ugly, I thought the Zaha Hadid was so much better and I was also a fan of the competition winner, the real one.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby johnglas » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:56 pm

Again, not wishing to be controversial, but am I missing something in not believing that a good skyline has anything to do with 'tall' buildings? The docklands can take taller buidings (not all of a uniform height) and there is room for 'punctuation' marks, but as with the density debate, we need to realise that tall buildings are just a virility (sic, or lack of it?) symbol.
And don't knock An Taisce; architecture in townscape cannot just be left to architects (alas).
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby paul h » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:43 pm

I would think that a skyline is formed directly from various tall(er) buildings
example: Dublin city has no skyline , whereas most large cities of planet earth (throw a dart at a map you'll find one) have taller buildings and that is what gives 'em their skyline.

This building looks faceless, dull ,corporate, just like the rest of the docklands, the only difference is that its a little bit taller than its surroundings.
It's only redeeming factors are that its height attempts to break up the monotony and it's extra few floors give us more elbow room for our large businesses to operate in.
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby StephenC » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:58 pm

notjim wrote: I thought the Zaha Hadid was so much better and I was also a fan of the competition winner, the real one.


The Z.H design is being considered for an adjoining site formerly Tedcastles
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby notjim » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:59 pm

StephenC wrote:The Z.H design is being considered for an adjoining site formerly Tedcastles


Tedcastles was on the north campshire wasn't it, isn't it part of the proposed island or am I confused?
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby johnglas » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:09 pm

paul h: the point was about tall bldgs; Dublin city does have a skyline - try towers, spires, pinnacles, domes, chimneys, etc. Skyline has as much to do with topography as architecture - Dublin is flat. And most public bldgs were of a different scale to domestic bldgs; just have a look at illustrations of pre-modern cities - they very much had a skyline. The obsession of some architects with (very) tall buidings, which you must have to rate (with whom?), just baffles me. Many American and 'developing' cities do have very tall buildings - in the centre - but they also have an endless sprawl of formless suburbs. Where you have an endless sprawl of tall buildings (as in what you see of Chinese cities), there is equally 'no' skyline, because when you are in amongst it you are just dwarfed by it - fine and exhilarating in Manhattan, but elsewhere?
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby paul h » Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:21 pm

.......just baffles me

Likewise the aversion to anything tall baffles me
Many American and 'developing' cities do have very tall buildings

What you mean is - many Asian, Australian, African, North American, South American and even a rapidly expanding number of good old European cities
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Re: Block G Spencer Dock

Postby gunter » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:52 am

wearnicehats wrote: This site stopped being about critique a long time ago.


So what's your critique of this?

To me, what makes this a particularly bad proposal is the total disregard for context.

We shouldn't see this proposal in the context of the NCC hotel, or the Watchtower or the U2 building. These are genuine attemps at 'Landmark' buildings, located at points in the Docklands cityscape where puntuation would add depth and legibility to the urban form.

This Treasury proposal is not about 'punctuating the skyline', it's the first act in the Spencer Dock / Liffey Island bulk-up. We need to see this building in the context of maybe twenty five similar blocks, all hovering just under the proposed new 20 storey height restriction, all jostling for attention and spilling out over the campshire like a random piece of Detroit that got mixed up with the jig-saw puzzle of Dublin.

Schemes like this and the whole DDDA revised Development Plan which spawned it, seem to misunderstand or disregard the essential character of Dublin, and the central role that the grand set-piece of the Liffey quays plays in maintaining that character. The biggest mistake that being made here is in under-valuing this asset. The coherence of the Liffey quays depends on maintaining a hierarchy of civic buildings, bridges, punctuation points and ordinary streetscapes.

With the National Conference Centre taking shape, (whatever may end up being the judgement on it's tilted drum), we can see that this hierarchy is still capable of working for us in the 21st century. If we add into the mix a greater flexibility to add dramatic punctuation in the right place, then this great 300+ year old Quay model, that set Dublin on the road to being a significant European city, can be reinforced and the character of the city reinvigorated, not further damaged.


notjim wrote:Well I think the Watchtower is a classic ordinary decent residential tower, no big deal but, assuming the materials and finish are good, I will be happy to see it built.


I'm happy to agree with that.
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