ESB Fleet Street

Re: South Leinster Street

Postby Devin » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:34 pm

GrahamH wrote:It is so refreshing to see ... a simple, unobtrusive, considerate piece of infill ... not the exploitative all-consuming behemoths we're becoming all too-accustomed to in the city of late.
Tell me about it! You should see what DCC are after granting for in behind Westmoreland Street - the ESB site.

700 submissions to Sean Dunne and none at all for key city-centre sites .... that's the story lately ...
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby d_d_dallas » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:31 pm

Devin,
is that Fleet St? What's gotten through?
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby Devin » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:46 pm

Yeah, the ESB offices, Fleet St. A monster! It’s on its 4-week appeal time at the moment.
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby StephenC » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:55 pm

But you said there were no objectors. Did An Taisce object?

The Irish Times building is another uninspired effort granted permission recently. Its only saved by the fact that most of it is behind the D'Olier St facade.
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby JoePublic » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:14 pm

Devin wrote:Yeah, the ESB offices, Fleet St. A monster! It’s on its 4-week appeal time at the moment.


You might want to turn your monitor sideways to look at these photos of it :-)

http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00157250.pdf
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby alonso » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:33 pm

ah sure tis not so bad. What's on the ground floor? I've always hated that block as it murdered that stretch
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby JoePublic » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:46 pm

alonso wrote:What's on the ground floor?


Retail
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:39 pm

That part of the street is dead what with the car park and anonymous meeting room windows of a hotel - more retail is to be welcomed but they really built to within an inch tolerance of that that site could realistically take.
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Re: South Leinster Street

Postby Devin » Wed Oct 17, 2007 3:26 pm

Re: Fleet St proposal

Those images don't convey the scale of it at all at all ..
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:13 pm

I made that comment based on the chimney of the adjoining building - must pop over later on and see in person...
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby Richards » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:56 pm

The most important thing is that the height of this building MUST not compromise the Bank Of Ireland on College Green! That would be unforgivable!
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby publicrealm » Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:54 pm

Richards wrote:The most important thing is that the height of this building MUST not compromise the Bank Of Ireland on College Green! That would be unforgivable!



I agree that this is the critical point. However, the application included photomontages showing no impact on the Bank of Ireland.

DCC requested further montages from Westmoreland Street and other sensitive areas - again, no impact.

The building will bring life to this part of Temple Bar. It includes a large chunk of retail specifically for that purpose and other features aimed at rejuvenating the area (read the rfi response). I like it.

But wait! It appears, once again, that those clowns in DCC have got it all wrong and that it's down to a subjective assessment of the architecture (and height?). Obviously this will never pass muster on this forum.

Oh by all means we will allow you to buy the site, to consult with the planning authority, to propose much needed uses, but don't dare to try to make it pay?

Sigh.....I despair - everything is knocked here.:(
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby JoePublic » Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:27 pm

It certainly seems that only the most uninspired, mediocre, unchallenging efforts (like that south leinster street building) get the archiseek nod of approval.

But yes very important the height doesn't interfere with the BoI
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby kefu » Thu Oct 18, 2007 10:58 am

That link isn't working. Could you repost JoePublic?
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby JoePublic » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:04 am

kefu wrote:That link isn't working. Could you repost JoePublic?


Hmm it seems to work for me. I just got it from the http://www.dublincity.ie website, planning search. Using search terms 'fleet esb', and look for the 07 planning application. It's in the documents section along with lots of other stuff
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby Fairfield » Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:46 pm

It looks like a pretty good effort to me - way better than anything else in the vicinity.

It’s a pity a few more projects like this don’t come along and take out that multi-storey car park and generally bring a bit of life to this area.

If it doesn't impact on the B of I then best of luck to it.
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby jackwade » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:39 pm

It’s a pity a few more projects like this don’t come along and take out that multi-storey car park and generally bring a bit of life to this area.


Unfortunately there are apartments on the top floor of the car park, which would make redevelopment difficult.
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby GrahamH » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:09 am

Bord says yes to plan for ESB shop in D2

Irish Times 3/7/2008
Edel Morgan


AN BORD Pleanála has approved a proposal to redevelop the former ESB showrooms on Fleet Street, Dublin 2 into an office and retail scheme despite a recommendation by its own inspector to refuse planning permission.

Aztec Properties, controlled by Wexford-based Stafford Holdings, bought the 1960s building for €33 million and is proposing to demolish the four-storey showrooms for a six-storey block with two further storeys set back.

However, An Bord Pleanála has imposed a number of planning conditions, which will reduce the height of the development by one floor and omit a portion of another floor. In granting permission for the scheme, the board overruled its own inspector’s recommendation to refuse permission. The board said it decided not to accept the inspector’s recommendation as it felt that issues regarding height, visual impact and effect on adjoining properties “could be adequately addressed by a reduction in the scale of the development”.

An Taisce appealed the proposal saying the design was trying to cram-in too many floors and is out of scale in an area of historic sensitivity. It said the building adjoins Westmoreland Street which is part of the north/south Georgian axis developed by the Wide Streets Commissioners.

The Fleet Street premises was one of a small number of ESB buildings excluded from the sale of its retail network to Bank of Scotland (Ireland).


© 2008 The Irish Times
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby Pilear » Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:12 pm

i welcome this decision because this development will add life to a dead area in the centre of the city, it is a step in the right direction towards densification of the inner city without having a negative impact on the historic core and its not bad architecture (nothing special but not bad).
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby adhoc » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:43 pm

Coming down Church Lane on the upper deck of a bus, a lift shaft or some such structure is boldly craning its neck above the Bank of Ireland.

Horrible stuff. I haven't yet noticed this from street level - and hope the plans don't allow for it.
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby StephenC » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:18 pm

Oh dear, I see what you mean. Its not actually the ESB offices but the smaller adjoining redevelopment of Amnesty International's office whcih are to say the very least and abomination! How any architect could stand over this bastard of a building is beyond me! And how any planner could have permitted it is equally beyond me. What you see is the 8th storey peeping over Parliament House. You can also see it from Millennium Bridge.

I have seen the planning file but I imagine there were photomontages including a nice red line showing this roof line to be invisble from the street and from various vantage points. And it is invisible from College Green. Unfortunately not so from Church Lane.

A complete travesty!


Still this is a pattern....just look at the new Irish Times building development from O'Connell Street.
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby hutton » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:24 pm

StephenC wrote:Oh dear, I see what you mean. Its not actually the ESB offices but the smaller adjoining redevelopment of Amnesty International's office whcih are to say the very least and abomination! How any architect could stand over this bastard of a building is beyond me! And how any planner could have permitted it is equally beyond me. What you see is the 8th storey peeping over Parliament House. You can also see it from Millennium Bridge.

Still this is a pattern....just look at the new Irish Times building development from O'Connell Street.


Completely agree, particularly re the former Irish Times building and the manner by which it provides substandard vista closure looking south along O'Connell Street - if ever there was a vista closure that should have been given particular attention, this was it :(
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby publicrealm » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:06 pm

[quote="StephenC"]

Its interesting to review the Inspector's report on this. Visual impact was considered not to be a factor:

I note, firstly, that, despite the proposed height of the development and the emphasis
placed on the visibility of the proposed structure by the planning authority and the
applicant, the appeal does not relate in any manner to the question of building height and
visual impact in the streetscape context. The appeal relates solely to the impact on the
building on site and to the need for adequate archaeological assessment. I am of the
opinion that it has been ably demonstrated by the applicant that there would not be a
significant adverse visual impact on the streetscape or on views across the city centre
skyline by the proposal
(ABP 222964)

Of course the practice is to make photomontages from ground level, rather than upstairs on a bus, or from upper floors of buildings
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby StephenC » Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:23 am

publicrealm wrote:Of course the practice is to make photomontages from ground level, rather than upstairs on a bus, or from upper floors of buildings


Just to be clear, the offending 8th storey can clearly be seen from street level on Church Lane. Granted this is an elevated position however one would argue that a proper assessment of visual impact would have considered the view from here (at street level) given the character of this area.
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Re: ESB Fleet Street

Postby archipig » Fri Mar 12, 2010 3:50 pm

Details of planning application:

http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/r ... 7&backURL=<a%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1229436>Search%20Criteria</a>%20>%20<a%20href='wphappsearchres.displayResultsURL?ResultID=1550914%26StartIndex=51%26SortOrder=APNID:asc%26DispResultsAs=WPHAPPSEARCHRES%26BackURL=<a%20href=wphappcriteria.display?paSearchKey=1229436>Search%20Criteria</a>'>Search%20Results</a>
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