Liberty Hall redevelopment

[AndrewP]

Even if you hate Liberty Hall, the brief is for a building TWICE THE SIZE! They know they won't be allowed go much higher so that means pretty much twice as bulky. You'd want to have a lot of faith in SIPTU to think a fat, 20-storey noughties version of Liberty Hall is going to be any kind of improvement...

[JoePublic]

Yep I really can't imagine the socialist/trade union movement being up to the task of providing the outstanding architectual landmark that should be required to remotely justify a building of this size on the site.

Oh wouldn't it be nice if liberty hall could be cpo'd, flattened to the height of its Eden quay neighbours, and SIPTU packed off down to the docklands or somewhere...

[notjim]

JoePublic: they will never leave, this was the site of their HQ during the glory days of the great lockout and the neither king nor kaiser photo!

I will certainly miss this building.

[JoePublic]

I don't think the majority of Dubliners will miss this hideous monstrosity (I've never heard anyone have a kind word for it except on this board).

I just hope what we get instead isn't worse. Let's hope the planners are up to the task of sending SIPTU back to the drawing board as many times as are necessary to get a design of the required standard. The required standard being extraordinary, giving the impact this building will have.

[Peter Fitz]

I will certainly miss this building.

Sad to see it go too & quite worried about this as Andrew mentioned ...

"the plan envisages a tower which will double the floor space from about 5,500 square metres to 11,000 square metres"

So are we looking at Central Bank proportions here !?

Mounting an external lift shaft on the north east corner would free up substantial floor space ...

[igy]

this is dreadful. Liberty Hall is an icon and better than anything new in the docklands or elsewhere

Sort of agree with you on this one, I quite like the towers there at Ulster Bank / Tara St station, but otherwise most of the 'high rise' in the area is just crap.
I quite like Alto Vetro though, it's interesting that they even bothered with a "high rise" on such a small plot.

[Lotts]

What planning permission is needed for this?
Is the plan to knock and clear the site - and then gain permission for the new build?
Or is permission needed to knock it in the first place?
Anyone know?

[shanekeane]

well you can be assured that several different types of planning permission will be required, because it's unofficially part of irish law that politicians should be bribed as many times as possible for each project.

[StephenC]

You need planning permission to demolish buildings.

[PTB]

We'll live to regret destroying our 60s architetural heritage. There's practically nothing going to be left in a few years. Hawkings house will be gone, Liberty hall will be gone and the county hall in Cork is as good as gone.

Shame really. I dont know what the finished building will be like, but I have the feeling that it will hardly be as good as Liberty Hall.

[Pepsi]

cork county hall gone? sure it was only done up a few years ago.

[Paddy]

A photo of the original building before the glass was changed and the mosaics covered over

[Paddy]

sorry about that its a bit big but I can not work out how to undo it!

[Peter Fitz]

Excellent Paddy, I've often looked high and low for a good image of Liberty Hall in its original state ... and you've one in colour no less !

Can I ask where you got it from & if you've any more to add ? a shot from further back would be great.

The original glazing changes its appearance entirely, lovely crisp lines.
It's really worthy of retention & a restore/refurb, head & shoulders above its 60's sisters, O'Connell & Hawkins.

[Morlan]

Can I ask where you got it from & if you've any more to add ? a shot from further back would be great.

There's this one from earlier in the thread

[Peter Fitz]

thanks, i'm familiar with that one alright morlan ... I had a lovely shot, taken from a capuchin annual i think, of the original building against the setting sun, could never find the damn thing though when i went looking. Thats the first decent colour shot i've seen.

[weehamster]

While the B&W photo makes it look ok, the old colour photo clearly shows it to be the ugly building that we all know and love (to hate). I can clearly see now why they 'tried' to make it look better with the changes to the windows etc...

I'm afraid I have to say I look forward to having it replaced. But big question is, with what and will the replacement be as bad or even worse.

[GregF]

Ah the Liberty Hall will be missed . It's looks good from down the quays looking up the river. The new 14 storey structure down Pearse Street kinda pays homage to it. I hope a new replacement will be just as much a landmark.

[JoePublic]

I don't really buy the argument about it looking much better than Hawkin's house. Yes it's not as ugly as Hawkins house, but it is FAR more visible from many places in the city.

Oh how good it will be to see the wrecking ball come in...

I remember reading that the footprint of the tower is one quarter of the site. If they built at a uniform height on the whole site at a reasonably low height (maybe 6 storeys plus obligatory setback?) could they achieve their goal of increasing the square footage? I'm not against highrise, but this just was never the place for it - wouldn't it be great if this mistake could be corrected.

[Peter Fitz]

Can't agree weehamster & joe ...

The original glazing gave it a lightness of touch, the reflective stuff (added only after a number of the original's were blown out) can look ok from a distance but is just tack up close.

There is no comparison between liberty hall & hawkins.
The former is proportionate & reasonably slender with extensive glazing reducing its impact while the latter is cumbersome & bloated with shocking integration at street level, creating an acre of dead space.

Either way, both are to come down in the coming years, i doubt liberty's replacement will be any better.

[AndrewP]

There's no way the replacement will be less obtrusive.

Todays Irish times,


The building brief for the plan envisages a tower which will double the floor space from about 5,500 square metres to 11,000 square metres. That target could be achieved by building slightly higher than the present 16 stories while also building out.

© 2007 The Irish Times

[cubix]

Yeah but exactly how much higher are they talking, 20 stories 25 maybe.im happy to see the back of it and how can you say its replacement wont be much better?its old and dilapated and needs to come down

[Paul Clerkin]

they'll double the area by building to the same height but over the entire site

[JoePublic]

Here's an off-the-cuff calculation with these assumptions: liberty hall is 16 stories, remaining buildings are 4 stories, liberty hall takes up one quarter of the site area. Maybe these assumptions are faulty.

Current site therefore has 28 (16 + 3x4) liberty hall 'units'. By building an 8 storey ugly box they could have 32 (4x8) liberty hall units, plus savings on the service core (which I understand is one of the big problems in the current layout).

So the question is which is worse: a new 8 storey ugly square box, the current 16 storey ugly rectangular box, or a new 16 storey fatter ugly rectangular box.

:-)

[Paddy]

I have to agree with Peter Fitzpatrick, I think its such a different building now from the original design. I got the images from the Architect Desmond Rea O'Kelly,his wife took them. I just finishing a documentary film I made about the building. I also noticed how hard it is to come across images of it in its original state, funny for a building that is so prominent. I'd love to see that shot you were talking about Peter if you ever dig it out or if any one else has any images I would appreciate if you would pass them on.
For me it is a simple elegant design that has been allowed to fall into an awful state, I think if it were restored or if more people saw it as it was it would be more loved. I agree that we will regret knocking these buildings that have not been given a chance to age properly while been maintained. Its only 40 years old!
I too am not so hopeful for the new building, the beauty of Liberty Hall is that it does only occupy a small portion of the site and is not greedy in the skyline, imagine the bulk of the whole site going up to the same height.