Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby Adolf Luas » Thu Oct 11, 2007 11:16 pm

StephenC wrote:I agree! What a spectacularly over the top statement Adolf Luas to say that Smithfield is seen as a "massive failure". What residents are you refering to? The residents of Council houses at the north end that now have shops, a supermarket, a health centre, a gym, restuarants, bars,cafe, a cinema (soon), and cultural facilities. Or perhaps to mean the Council residents on Balckhall Place who have received completely revamped apartments as well as the above. Or maybe you mean the new residents to the area - ie the ones who werent there before!

Its obvious that Smithfeild isnt perfect and there is still along way to go, particularly the inexplicable lack of attention to the southern part of the square. It has its problems and I would have plenty to say about some aspects of whats happened there. But its not a massive failure!


I have recently attended some weekly workshop meetings organised by the Grangegorman Development Agency prior to an announcement regarding a master plan for the redevelopment of the Grangegorman site which will incorporate the new DIT campus as well as an Educate Together school and a health board facility.
Members of the local community have been exploring different aspects of how DIT will affect and integrate with its immediate environment. The one example that seems to have been repeatedly cited at these meetings of how things recently went wrong is the redevelopment of Smithfield. Of course there have been improvements, particularly Shay Cleary's remodelling of the flats on North King Street that were previously in a terrible state. Although Smithfield Square itself has been improved upon I still think it has failed. Many of the ground floor units remain empty on Smithfield, North King Street and on Brunswick Street. The health centre is, I believe, great. However, a flat fee of 120 euro to see a doctor exists as opposed to the usual 50 euro for all the other GP's in the area. The supermarket, Fresh is also very nice but overpriced. Thomas Reid, the bar, is always almost empty. The Gym has a spectacular swimming pool that is only open to adults. I have to drive my daughter to Finglas for a swim. The viewing tower in the chimney has, as far as I know, been closed for some time. The square is a wind tunnel, quite why another smaller open area in front of the tower was necessary is beyond me. Most attempts at cultural events seem to fall flat on their face, the space is just too long and open.The groovy little sound/lighting building at the southern end of the square has always been totally redundant. The gas braziers that used to be lit every weekend are rarely operational. Whenever I've attended any cultural/musical events at Smithfield I've looked up at the myriad of balconies that overlook the square and would be hard pressed to spot more than half a dozen residents actually watching the proceedings. The apartment dwellers and Smithfield don't appear to connect. The Lighthouse cinema is very exciting, a very welcome development that's been on the cards for years. Less welcome, in my opinion, is a sign currently on one of the units that reads "coming soon. Paddy Power". Aesthetically I think most of the development looks awful and think it will look really terrible in a few years time. That's a matter of personal taste though.
I've lived in the area for 17 years and was genuinely very excited about the whole Smithfield scheme. Some may see it as a success, I'm not being negative I just think its failed on many levels, in particular in terms of what has been given back to the local community as opposed to facilities for people who reside in the apartments.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby GregF » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:03 am

See in James St. yesterday opposite the hospital an old derelict pub went on fire. It looks like an old Georgian which had render applied in Victorian times. It was in reasonable good condition . Now the roof and the top floor are destroyed. It is adjacent to derelicts sites. It once had hoardings around it with the developers promising captions of 'restore, rejuvenate, etc'...or something like that. I suppose the whole lot will be razed now and another rudimenatry appartment block thrown up. Another piece of history lost.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby Devin » Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:56 pm

As we saw in the papers today, these two have now been refused:

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/221294.htm
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/219930.htm

Passed by DCC, there was some good design in the Windmill site, but they were trying to squeeze on way too much development, and that's what tripped them up in the end.


The revised proposal for the "mini-manhattan" site across the road was lodged on the 11th of October. Just one 26-storey building this time, and some lower ones. Details: Ref. 5666/07
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby curly » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:29 pm

What is the next stage for this sorry mess now?

Perfectly workable buildings are being left go to dereliction and it is bringing down the area further.

Perhaps the developers want to trap the state Agency (digital hub) into a bind and get the site for free. 87 companies there now, no office space even though leases have been taken on buildings as far away as Cork street to accomodate demand.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:05 am

3/1/2008

As some may have seen in the news section today, Harry Crosbie has just lodged a planning application for an - unorthodox shall we say - hotel just off Thomas Street behind the Vicar Street music venue. It is to be sited on the footprint of this warehouse building to the rear.

Image



'Monastic no star' hotel for Vicar Street
Edel Morgan

Crosbie Property has submitted a planning application for a 200-bedroom "no star" hotel as part of the Vicar Street music venue which will be almost "monastic" in terms of its facilities, says developer Harry Crosbie.

Designed by Grafton Architects, the hotel will not seek a star rating from Bord Fáilte because it will be "too basic to have any stars", says Crosbie

The press release announcing the planning application says the polished concrete walls of the rooms will be "a homage to Corbusier and Eileen Gray". Crosbie himself describes the rooms as "cells to sleep in with concrete walls and a very good bed with a duvet".

There will be a communal TV room on the top floor. The most lavish aspect of the development will be the €1 million spent on art works by young Irish artists for the bedrooms.

Crosbie says everything else will be "very basic" such as the freight lift which will bring patrons to the residents' bar and check-in area in a "big glass box on top of the hotel" which will look out over the city. The proposal is to locate the hotel to the rear of the the music venue and demolish an existing warehouse on the site.

He says that the "no star" approach is part of a worldwide trend to offer hotel accommodation "at the lowest possible prices".

Packages will be available to people attending shows and concerts at Vicar Street. the new Point Arena and the Libeskind theatre in the docklands, and room rates will start at €50.


© The Irish Times


Grafton Architects' involvement sounds encouraging. Although not everyone's a fan of their house style, I'd certainly welcome a trademark crisp cubular edifice in what is a particularly jaded area as far as contemporary design is concerned - the idiom usually extending itself to red brick boxes with a 'modrin' boxy timber window.

Just a slight concern as to the standard this development may set for the area, given it's little better than a high class hostel; then again that's (rather unfortunately) a decent step up for Thomas Street. Also I cannot imagine it to be anything less than impeccably managed, and there is huge demand for this type of accommodation in which Dublin is lacking. Apparently it's intended as a 'young rocker's hotel'. It's also great to see budget accommodation getting a smart, purpose-built solution for once, rather than the northern Georgian core getting mauled; 200 bedrooms equates to an entire streetscape of saved townhouses! Thanks Harry ;)

It was passing by this morning as the notice went up that brought it to my attention.

Image


Image

(Grafton are so uber-chic they even sign off in lower case...)
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:55 am

NCAD have their new Harry Clarke building by Murray O'Laoire on their Christmas card.

However it states on the reverse that it will open in June 2008. Has it been started?
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby Paul Clerkin » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:56 am

Forget that - you can see it in the background of Mr.Hickey's photograph -they're at the steelwork.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:21 am

They are indeed. It's literally just gone up - was vacant as of a week ago.
What's the glowing tubular yokamabob to the side there?

Cleaning and other works to the Fire Station is also well underway.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:32 am

GrahamH wrote:(Grafton are so uber-chic they even sign off in lower case...)

Just like ee cummings, yes, but also like k.d. lang, let's not forget. ;)

I'm keen to see the design for this. As you say, Graham, the city needs it.

GrahamH wrote:What's the glowing tubular yokamabob to the side there?

Whatever else it is, the word 'unnecessary' springs to mind. It looks like a heated towel rail. Maybe a detail from the Grafton scheme got taken by the breeze and landed on the wrong side of the road?
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby GrahamH » Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:44 am

;)

A towel rail is exactly what sprung to mind here too. Gives new meaning to a warm quality of streetscape doesn't it.

It has the potential to act as an eye-catching linkage between what are rather disjointed campus buildings. Lets just hope it's better executed than Robocop's eh, 'dressings'. It must be with MO'L.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby lostexpectation » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:16 am

like orange hotels then,didn't lecorbusier paint or whitewash all his walls, even the joy and kilmainham are painted.

some more yuppification for thomas street you mean.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby ctesiphon » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:10 am

How is this 'yuppification'?

In recent months there has been general agreement among the members here (I know, I know- the sound of hell freezing over) that Thomas Street / James Street needs work. What that work should consist of is a topic of debate, but I don't think anyone wants the status quo preserved.

Then when something like this is proposed, it's only for yuppies? Come off it. If anything, your comment is far more 'classist' for its assumption that a high quality budget hotel would be of no benefit to the residents of the immediate area. Don't they have friends from out of town too?
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby lostexpectation » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:55 am

the status quo was delivered by property speculators make again place so bad they'll take anything as a replacement, I thought the members here wouldn't fall for that. I thought you thought yourselves as a better class of people.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby hutton » Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:21 am

lostexpectation wrote:I thought you thought yourselves as a better class of people.


Ah now, talk about making assumptions :p
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby ctesiphon » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:50 am

lostexpectation wrote:the status quo was delivered by property speculators make again place so bad they'll take anything as a replacement, I thought the members here wouldn't fall for that. I thought you thought yourselves as a better class of people.

Actually, I'm scum of the earth and I'm well aware of the fact, but my low breeding shouldn't mean I can't dream the dream with the big boys and girls from the right side of the tracks.

Seriously- 'a better class of people'? For the second time in as many posts, let me say Come off it. The only people I'd say I'm better than are people who make sweeping generalisations regarding people they know nothing about.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:53 am

Devin wrote:Image

Thomas Street generally needs to be designated an ACA. Many of the terraced buildings that make it what it is have no protection – only the weak old ‘Conservation Area’ designation.

Take this group (above) between Frawley’s and St. Catherine’s Church. None of them are protected structures. They have a wonderful array of pitched roofs and gables at the rear, very characteristic of the old city (including what appears to be a rare cruciform roof to No. 30). But that could all be lost at the moment because they have no protection. And they could well the subject of landbanking arising out of the Frawley’s closure/sale …... jdivision, maybe you know?


Discussion on Frawleys should probably be on this thread. You know the way some posters get angry and then there will be bears.

As Devin said above, these buildings are not on the protectred structures list.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby johnglas » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:27 am

Why doesn't DCC acquire (by CPO) these semi-derelict bldgs on Thomas St (a disgrace for a capital city) or alternatively force the delinquent owners to refurbish and maintain them? Their current values must be very low and any compensation should be based on their current usage, state of repair and potential cost of reinstatement or demolition.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:09 pm

johnglas wrote:Why doesn't DCC acquire (by CPO) these semi-derelict bldgs on Thomas St (a disgrace for a capital city) or alternatively force the delinquent owners to refurbish and maintain them? Their current values must be very low and any compensation should be based on their current usage, state of repair and potential cost of reinstatement or demolition.


johnglas, the old arguement used to be that ' . . the Corporation couldn't possibly buy every old, endangered, house in the city . .' I don't know how they answer the question now that there are so few left.

The loss of originally gabled houses, in Dublin, is the built heritage equivalent of genocide.

A formerly gabled house, i-e, a curvilinear gabled house, altered in the late 18th century to conform to prevailing taste (there has to be a thread coming on the legacy of Luke Gardiner), is just regarded as a bad 'Georgian' house, and sure this city has loads of good 'Georgian' houses.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby jdivision » Fri Mar 07, 2008 12:25 pm

Just to point out that Crosbie's hotel plan was rejected. Devin I'm not aware of landbanking around Frawleys but he certainly owns a couple of other places around there and if I was him I'd be doing it.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby hutton » Fri Mar 07, 2008 3:57 pm

jdivision wrote:Just to point out that Crosbie's hotel plan was rejected. Devin I'm not aware of landbanking around Frawleys but he certainly owns a couple of other places around there and if I was him I'd be doing it.


Im glad to hear that nasty "hotel" :rolleyes: plan was rejected - it was a real BFG - Big, and F****** uGly!
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby johnglas » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:07 pm

gunter: I couldn't agree more - why regeneration has to equal acquire, accumulate, run down and demolish I've never been able to understand. The backs of the houses shown in your thread above are as 'romantic' and characterful as you'll get anywhere. Even the fronts are a nice tutorial in building history.
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby missarchi » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:44 pm

dublin 8 cubes of new york and some finance???
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby jdivision » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:56 pm

jdivision wrote:Just to point out that Crosbie's hotel plan was rejected. Devin I'm not aware of landbanking around Frawleys but he certainly owns a couple of other places around there and if I was him I'd be doing it.



Just to add, there's a funny story told about how Carroll got planning to develop apartments on a site around there but decided he'd build offices instead and got a change of use. The potential tenants got a bit of a shock when they were shown around and suddenly heard animals screaming. It was right next to a slaughterhouse!
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby gunter » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:10 pm

The flats behind Thomas St. are a bit rough, but a slaughterhouse! is that going a bit far?
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Re: Thomas Street & James Street, Dublin!

Postby hutton » Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:11 pm

jdivision wrote:Just to add, there's a funny story told about how he got planning to develop apartments on a site around there but decided he'd build offices instead and got a change of use. The potential tenants got a bit of a shock when they were shown around and suddenly heard animals screaming. It was right next to a slaughterhouse!


Lol. I suppose he didnt make a killing on that one so :o

*gets coat*
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