Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby GrahamH » Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:03 pm

I'm not pushed either way on the sculpture itself - other than it's yet another rather tiresome 'iconic' churn-out from a sculptzar (is that the equivalant of staritect?) that has little connection with its environment. That's not to belittle the piece itself, but it's just silly dumping it to the side of the river for postmodern 'oh look, that's so loike random Fintan, huh huh' effect. Yawn.

While in the process the breathtaking grace of the barely tamed Liffey at its widest point marching the final leg to sea is compromised with urban frippery. The elegance of the bridges should be allowed speak for themselves, and this piece moved to a more appropriate location - somewhere that actually needs some 'sculptural incident', to use the lingua franca of such artsy planning.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby kefu » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:43 pm

It would make a nicer feature in the plaza at the front of the bland new Convention Centre, for one.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Starch » Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:13 pm

other than it's yet another rather tiresome 'iconic' churn-out from a sculptzar (is that the equivalant of staritect?)


...yeah it is real Sculpstar stuff.......snore
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:41 am

kefu wrote:It would make a nicer feature in the plaza at the front of the bland new Convention Centre, for one.


Is there a plaza in front of the convention center?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lunasa » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:10 am

Maybe he should be further upstream so that Holy Joe can say a decade with Blessed Matt.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby kefu » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:20 pm

You would have to presume that it doesn't run all the way out to the quays. I remember from older more detailed images a little bit of a plaza in front of it. But I'm subject to correction.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:29 pm

The masterplan

http://www.spencerdock.ie/national_conference_centre

doesn't look like it leaves enough space for a 43m statue.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:02 pm

there may be something in the papers at the w/e about this
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:15 pm

Yeah, so it was in todays Times, copied below. The amusing thing is that the local councillor, Daithi Doolan, responding to some of our comments about what the statue looked like it was doing said, yes, to him the statue looked like it was about to start irish dancing. I haven't heard it called that before: "I think tonight I will look at a rag mag and do some step two threes."

He also said that people here were often negative about plans for the city, opposing the bike scheme for example. This is slightly irksome, the implication being that posters here lack ambition for Dublin, when, it seems to me, the opposite is true, we have enough ambition and confidence not to support things just because they are better than nothing, to hope for something great, not just something better. those who oppose the statue aren't generally against large, prominent, public art, but wish for something better situated by a more daring choice of artist, those who oppose the bike scheme generally do so because they believe the size and number of the billboards make it a bad deal for the city, not because they are against bikes. And so on.

From the Times:

A 48-metre (157ft) tall sculpture by artist Anthony Gormley proposed for Dublin Docklands has caused heated debate on architecture websites in the days since images of the planned work were released.

Commissioned by the Dublin Docklands Development Authority (DDDA), the giant metal figure, based on casts taken of the artist's own body, will be sited on the seaward side of the Seán O'Casey Bridge, subject to planning permission from Dublin City Council.

The London-born artist is most famous for his Angel of the North, a massive sculpture that put Newcastle-upon-Tyne on the international artistic map. However, some contributors to architecture discussion website, Archiseek.com have questioned the merits of locating such a large sculpture on the Liffey.

A number of contributors said that there had been too much interference with the visual line of the river already and suggested that the sculpture itself is "gimmicky", while several anonymous contributions suggested that the proposed figure looked like it was urinating.

The sculpture also received a number of positive comments with contributors praising the DDDA for its "vision" and commending previous work by the artist.

Sinn Féin Dublin City councillor Daithi Doolan, who represents the docklands area on the council of the DDDA, said the sculpture would be a wonderful addition to the area.

"Public art is very important for communities and particularly the inner city which has been much neglected in the past. The artist himself is very interesting and it is fantastic how he engages with communities," Mr Doolan said. Archiseek.com had on several occasions taken a negative stance on "positive developments" in the city, Mr Doolan said, such as the city bicycle scheme due to be introduced next year. Mr Doolan said the sculpture was visually impressive and would draw more visitors to the docklands area. "To me it looks like someone preparing to do Irish dancing."
© 2007 The Irish Times
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby alonso » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:44 pm

I don't recall any criticism of the actual bike scheme here? I recall dozens of posts lambasting the advertising scheme for the city, but did anyone say "no bikes. Never. Stop the cycling madness. Please think of the children" Nah didn't think so. Well I think that what Doolan has said is fair enough. At least he's giving an opinion. It differs from my own one, and I'm not sure that the people living around there would regard this type of public art as "very important". And how in the name of christ does he look like he's about to start Irish Dancing?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby JoePublic » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:55 pm

Sorry but this thread is a pile of nonsense. Just typical Irish begrudgery and oh-so-boring Irish negativity against.... everything.

For a more daring choice of artist, what on earth is wrong with a world renowned scuptor? The belittling of international 'starchitects' on this board strikes me as little more than sore grapes. What should the DDDA constantly be faulted for their new-found ambition?

If I was in the DDDA I'd be close to throwing in the towel - let's just cut and paste some more boring 6-storey square boxes by Irish architects into the remainder of the docklands and be done with the bloody thing. Take the safe easy approach, like the say in the computing industry 'no one ever got fired for hiring IBM'

I think the Gormley sculpture looks marvellous by the way :D. It will, like the spire, be controversial but ultimately accepted as an icon for Dublin. I suspect there are many lurkers on this boards who secretly like it too... Hopefully the project won't be sabotaged by this board and elsewhere.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby tommyt » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:17 pm

JoePublic wrote:Sorry but this thread is a pile of nonsense. Just typical Irish begrudgery and oh-so-boring Irish negativity against.... everything.

For a more daring choice of artist, what on earth is wrong with a world renowned scuptor? The belittling of international 'starchitects' on this board strikes me as little more than sore grapes. What should the DDDA constantly be faulted for their new-found ambition?

If I was in the DDDA I'd be close to throwing in the towel - let's just cut and paste some more boring 6-storey square boxes by Irish architects into the remainder of the docklands and be done with the bloody thing. Take the safe easy approach, like the say in the computing industry 'no one ever got fired for hiring IBM'

I think the Gormley sculpture looks marvellous by the way :D. It will, like the spire, be controversial but ultimately accepted as an icon for Dublin. I suspect there are many lurkers on this boards who secretly like it too... Hopefully the project won't be sabotaged by this board and elsewhere.



Yeah, we are all begrudgers with nothing to bring to the debate:rolleyes: . If you read the thread, apart from a few obviously throwaway witty retorts, the jist of what people are saying is that this represents another half baked DDDDDDDDDA concept that doesn’t have any kind of contextual coherence behind it (similar to your comment on the low rise nature of a lot of the riverside development) that Is driven by a risible ‘city-branding’ agenda and reading between the lines looks like an internecine ego-fued with the corpo over who can deliver a ‘wow’ project rather than a decent built environment. The DDDDDDDDDA are nearing the end of their remit and useful life and have failed to deliver on what was and to some extent still is a once in a lifetime opportunity to create a functional yet innovative urban environment. For example:

Why the hell is there nobody down there living and working on houseboats (especially the inner George’s dock?

With the now obvious lack of recreational space why isn’t there wide-ranging policy initiatives on marine leisure and recreation?

All we ever seem to get in relation to the WATER (Docklands?? Remember??) is the perception that it is an obstacle to development rather than an asset.

The authority is so kow-towed to developer interests we are getting a bog standard regeneration that could have been produced on any brownfield site not a Java island and more's the ptiy
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby kefu » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:58 pm

"All we ever seem to get in relation to the WATER (Docklands?? Remember??) is the perception that it is an obstacle to development rather than an asset."

Absolutely excellent point. It seems in many ways the DDDA would actually rather fill in the river because of their failures with the land they had. Examples include this statue, the site of the Abbey Theatre, the recent Manhattan-on-stilts proposal.
No one here has a problem with star-chitects.
What the issue boils down to is getting cast-off designs from people whose best work is either done/or moving on. Look at the two bridges Calatrava has produced for Dublin compared to the other work - twisting tower etc - that he is now coming up with. Those two bridges, while attractive, already exist in every fifth major city in the world.
The Libeskind Theatre, whilst potentially attractive, will be just the umpteenth building in a near identical style he has come up with. With Gormley, this statue is harmless enough but it's certainly not going to have the iconic status that the Angel of the North does.
Same goes for the constant crap about getting Frank Gehry in to design something in Dublin, nothing will ever compare to Bilbao etc so why should we accept a third-rate version.
Why not try and find some pioneers from within instead of constantly looking outside. When we went with smaller firms in recent times, we have had by far the best results: the National Gallery extension, the Spire, the Boardwalk.
These are the genuinely innovative designs found in Dublin, not hand-me-downs from coffee table book architects.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:07 pm

JoePublic wrote:What should the DDDA constantly be faulted for their new-found ambition?

If I was in the DDDA I'd be close to throwing in the towel - let's just cut and paste some more boring 6-storey square boxes by Irish architects into the remainder of the docklands and be done with the bloody thing.


The DDDA have created one of the blandest city quarters in the western world. The fact that this appears to have finally dawned on them does not mean every random gimmick they come up with should be universally accepted as they attempt to salvage the situation.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby lostexpectation » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:34 pm

I think the forum has been very unfair to gormely, although people have said they are primarily criticizing the DDDA, it would have better if your made the more clear well you allowed the comments to be used in the story...

the guys is on top of his game, these sculptures are complex, well thought out and cutting edge, (but not just for the sake of it, who would have thought of using steel and steam for a sculpture...?)

Image
Image

im not sure its the right place though your right it would better on a plaza on even in the center of the georges dock the idea that its going to be in the centre of the liffey is what most irksome.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby henno » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:55 pm

the use of his own form reproduced in his work, in this particular case in gigantic scale, reeks of megalomania to me...........
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:15 pm

I'm a fan of his work generally (though not of the Angel of the North) and I think this one looks promising, inasmuch as anyone can tell from the images seen so far. But as I said before the design was unveiled, my main problem with this is its location.

Also:
tommyt wrote:...the jist of what people are saying is that this represents another half baked DDDDDDDDDA concept that doesn’t have any kind of contextual coherence behind it [...] that Is driven by a risible ‘city-branding’ agenda and reading between the lines looks like an internecine ego-fued with the corpo over who can deliver a ‘wow’ project rather than a decent built environment. The DDDDDDDDDA are nearing the end of their remit and useful life and have failed to deliver on what was and to some extent still is a once in a lifetime opportunity to create a functional yet innovative urban environment.

QFT.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby notjim » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:36 am

lostexpectation wrote:im not sure its the right place though your right it would better on a plaza or even in the center of the georges dock the idea that its going to be in the centre of the liffey is what most irksome.


The Abbey Theatre, a 43m statue and the rubble from the Connolly Ramp: Oh Georges Dock, what did you do to deserve this?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Rory W » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:03 pm

JoePublic wrote:Sorry but this thread is a pile of nonsense. Just typical Irish begrudgery and oh-so-boring Irish negativity against.... everything.

For a more daring choice of artist, what on earth is wrong with a world renowned scuptor? The belittling of international 'starchitects' on this board strikes me as little more than sore grapes. What should the DDDA constantly be faulted for their new-found ambition?

If I was in the DDDA I'd be close to throwing in the towel - let's just cut and paste some more boring 6-storey square boxes by Irish architects into the remainder of the docklands and be done with the bloody thing. Take the safe easy approach, like the say in the computing industry 'no one ever got fired for hiring IBM'

I think the Gormley sculpture looks marvellous by the way :D. It will, like the spire, be controversial but ultimately accepted as an icon for Dublin. I suspect there are many lurkers on this boards who secretly like it too... Hopefully the project won't be sabotaged by this board and elsewhere.


Nothing wrong with a world renowned sculptor - it's just Gormley is repeating the same design (based on himself - no egomania here then) all over the UK - just because the UK are doing it doesn't mean it's a good idea for Dublin - to use your own analogy why cut'n' paste something from all over the UK. Secondly it's hardly a great work of art (unlike the angel of the north) rather it seems to be self-effacing (the shame of failure of CHQ perhaps) rather it resembles a bunch of bike frames.

BTW I'm a huge fan of the Spire (still am given it's shortcomings)

The DDA are just throwing Starchitects and Sculpstars at it at this stage rather than developing something new, wild and controvercial of their own which is their biggest failure in my opinion
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:05 am

PLAN FOR GIANT LIFFEY SCULPTURE


Madam, - I refer to the report in your issue of August 23rd on the proposal to erect a work by the sculptor Antony Gormley in the Dublin Docklands.

Your illustration suggests that this structure is to be actually stuck in the river Liffey, and that it is to be approximately 50 metres high - taller than the Custom House. Why is our beloved river Liffey being subjected to a relentless onslaught in an apparent attempt to clutter it up with as many "things" as possible?

We have a proliferation of new bridges. We have the boardwalk which serves to further clutter the river space and is ill-conceived and out of sympathy with the other architectural elements of the river such as the walls and bridges. I understand that the river is also threatened with some sort of overhead transport arrangement in the not too distant future - which would be needless and visually disastrous. And now the Gormley piece.

I find it impossible to discover who exactly makes decisions on such as the foregoing; and do these people have nothing more important to do for our city than try to destroy the magnificent Liffey? I believe that there are sensitive and intelligent people in Dublin City Council, but where are their voices now?

What I take to be quotations from Gormley regarding this work are the current mumbo-jumbo employed by many visual artists and mean absolutely nothing - nor should the public be intimidated by them. An art statement should not require a verbal statement to justify it.

This is not a rant against Gormley's work in general - I have some admiration for his Angel of the North. But why are we in Dublin being subjected to this monstrous and arbitrarily oversized depiction of the human figure, in which I can find no artistic merit despite the pathetic art-jargon accompanying its presentation to the public in your newspaper?

I hope the citizens of Dublin come out in their thousands to object to the granting of planning permission for this project.

- Yours, etc,

ALICE HANRATTY, Member of Aosdána, Henrietta Street, Dublin 1.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby sw101 » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:26 am

i like the fact that she's dismissing a statement from an artist about an art piece with a statement about an art piece from an artist.

"member of", not "representative of". one hopes.
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Morlan » Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:02 am

I will personally be submitting a formal objection to this.

Paul, any chance of a poll?
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby Sloan » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:45 am

This article appeared in last weeks Southside People.
Major sculpture planned for Docklands
THE artist Antony Gormley has released an artist’s impression of a proposed major public artwork for Dublin Docklands.
The planned work is an open structure of a human form that will be situated at the River Liffey, close to Sean O’Casey Bridge.
The Dublin Docklands Development Authority (DDDA) commissioned the work and at up to 48 metres high, it will be constructed from an open latticework of steel covered with black bitumen.
Its open weave design will allow light to permeate through and allow visibility in all directions.
The artist described it as being “like a charcoal drawing against the sky, changing as your position changes in relation to it”.
The sculpture will appear different depending on where it is viewed from within the city and the light levels at different times of the day and in different seasons.
Paul Maloney, Chief Executive DDDA, said that the announcement comes at an important time for the Docklands.
“The delivery of the Docklands Arts Strategy is now well on its way with the appointment of Antony Gormley for this sculptural commission, closely following the commencement on site of the new Grand Canal Theatre and the commitment of a site for our national theatre, the Abbey at George's Dock,” said Mr Maloney.
* The DDDA intends to lodge a planning application for the work before the end of the year.
Subject to planning permission, construction is likely to start during 2008 and, once on site, the work will take approximately ten months to build and will cost in the region of E1.6 million.
It’s expected that the name of the artwork will evolve during the design and construction of the sculpture.
Anyone who wishes to submit a name for consideration can do so through the Docklands website at http://www.dublindocklands.ie or by contacting the Docklands Authority office, 52-55 Sir John Rogerson’s Quay, Dublin 2.

Those wishing to cast/vew votes can also go here http://www.polldaddy.com/p.asp?p=98339
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby weehamster » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:52 pm

Thats it? My god that is depressing looking. :( I expected the sculpture to be hopeful looking at least.
For something that size it should be placed in the middle of Dublin Bay & not on the liffey

P.S.
Is it me or does it look like its about to take a pee. :rolleyes:
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Re: Giant sculpture to be located in Liffey

Postby jdivision » Mon Sep 03, 2007 1:55 pm

No apparently he's about to start Irish dancing according to the Shinners
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