Grafton Street, Dublin

Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:35 pm

snapping steel...

not grafton st but close

this was snapped then they took its brother too!
now you would never know all in todays work...

someone must of really hit this to snap it???
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:27 pm

Nooooooo! Not a heritage lamppost!!!
Why is it always the good ones, why?!

*shakes fist*

That's crazy - it's been sheared right off with what could only be an angle grinder or similar surely...
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Starch » Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:55 pm

it's a pity that whoever did that, didn't take out that bin too
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:00 pm

I was thinking exactly the same :D
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby ihateawake » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:10 am

This street looks pretty awful for what its meant to be... any plans to repave it, like O Connell? Could it be done when metro works are taking place? Seems once they create this "plaza" at the top, it would look very odd unless they used the same nasty red (wtf?) crap.

Cant find any pics to illustrate, but jeez... sure people know how bad it is in places.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby DGF » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:24 am

Read in the Irish Times today that the keys were handed back to the owners of the 'Habitat' building on Suffolk St. Attempts to lure in a new trader have failed so far. The article suggested that some high end fashion names were put off because of the poor mix of retail in Grafton st. and the overall quality of the urban environment. The street has been going downhill for years and is in desperate need of upgrading - new paving is pretty much a basic requirement. As for the old 'heritage' lamps, black bollards & street furniture in general... please lets see something more contemporary next time around?
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:49 am

I disagree. Done properly, with well manufactured and well informed contextually 'Dublin' furniture and paving design, a so-called heritage look could work extremely well on Grafton Street. Far from it downgrading the street, being the only thoroughfare in the city centre with such a treatment would inject it with a new status.

Barcelonaisation across the board is both as tiresome as it is as unimaginative as people tend to claim the historicist approach is.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:32 pm

I agree with Graham, chinese granite & stainless steel bollards should be out of the question for Grafton St.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 03, 2008 12:49 pm

And in fairness some of what's there at present is of a good standard. Okay the globe heads a tad civic 80s improvement scheme-like, but still of good design and well proportioned. Merely giving these attractive pedestrian-scale standards, some of which may be original but most reproduction, a coat of dark green paint and elegant new lamps with glittering white halogen bulbs would transform the street. In this new era of cutbacks across the board, there is simply no need to go lavishing funds on an entire suite of modernist furniture for Grafton Street, complete with happy-clappy banner poles and other such notions. Obviously litter bins and signage will be required, and an appropriate paving scheme, but keep things simple and elegant.

The problem is we're used to appalling standards of reproduction in Dublin, ranging from the silver lampposts of the quays to the factory monsters capping the very icon of the city: the Ha'penny Bridge. Bizarrely, two perfectly lovely lanterns on the side elevation of City Hall have just been replaced with two more of these hideously manufactured tin cans, complete with CFL globe bulbs, making the side door of City Hall now bear more resemblance to a vulgar one-off in the countryside than the entrance to one of the most important attractions in the city. Really quite extraordinary how resources can be so misdirected, and to such ignorant effect.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:11 pm

and to be honest, the red paving isn't the worst thing i've ever seen in my life. Ok so its a little garish but did inject some colour into a grey 1980's Dublin and whether we like it or not, it has served to define Grafton St. and its environs as a distinct quarter in itself.

Having said that, it is time for it to go - difficult to know what should replace it, perhaps a sandy coloured paver or some such. Any suggestions ?
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:46 pm

Belfast City Council are undertaking a revamp of all the main shopping streets. They are using some lovely coloured flagstones set off with granite. Looks very smart.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby DGF » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:12 am

Well, I'm still not convinced about the 'heritage' approach. For a street that is constantly touted as Dublin's premier shopping quarter, the reality is that the public domain in Grafton Street is badly maintained with patchy paving and a mishmash of public furniture. The debate over the very poor choice of litter bins has been well aired in this forum. To me, the globe lighting and the flower baskets look is just a little too Victorian park for my liking. The red paving did look new and exciting in the dull 1980s but definitely time to stop patching it up and go for a more comprehensive overhaul.

I'm not saying we need more chinese granite and steel furnishing - these are not the only choices available - and Grafton Street certainly deserves to have an image of its own. I've always thought that it would be great to get away from the central carriageway with a 'pavement' on either side which was adoped with the original paving scheme. I presume this was adopted because of the practicalities around deliveries but it would be great to see a scheme developed which was not so obviously based around the needs of motorised vehicles.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:21 am

I agree....some creative use of the street would be great....maybe a pattern. I like the old lamps though....they suit the street very well I think. Absolutely no need for bollards through. Traffic guys are obsessed with them these days it seems
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:31 am

I admire the red bricks but I don't know if they are suitable long term...
pattern would be nice mabye for graftonplatz
we can go further than 1700 into history it is possible...
I would be against ordinary lamps
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:33 am

Yes the bollards are an obstruction on such a busy street and unduly cluttering. A particular nightmare at Christmas (though then a street to be avoided at all costs in any event).

The perfect example of what we should have on Grafton Street is pictured below, currently hidden away on Kildare Place. A curiously grand installtion on the part of DCC.

Image

These beautiful lamps are sited atop typical Grafton Street posts of c. 1900. Also minus the ridiculous extension poles of Grafton Street, they are perfectly proportioned, and would look extremely gracious as proud upstanding specimens standing isolated on crisp new paving with no flower bakets hanging out of them. Iconic is not the word.

The lamps are also 'native' to Dublin, being reproductions of the O'Connell Bridge and Grattan Bridge lamps of the 1870s and 1880s. Accurate, well-informed, contextual and thoroughly appropriate.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:44 am

raise your hands in favour...
and say I...

approved by the archidail:D
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby spoil_sport » Thu Sep 04, 2008 11:52 am

NO!
Perhps there should be a competition to design such lamps, because the standard issue "modern" stainless steel shite wont do it (agreed GrahamH) but this heritage stuff... I mean bloody hell, we're not tring to dress the set of a period drama here, "contextual" or "appropriate" etc, does not mean it has to look the exact same as it did in 1870. What if we were to find an "accurate, well-informed, contextual and throughly appropriate" and contemporary piece (Appropriate to the fact that we're in the 21st century). I find it hard to imagine my new hover car parked infront of a heritage lamp. I'm sorry GrahamH, I'm not trying to pick arguments with you, I just find myself with too much time on my hands this week.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby gunter » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:00 pm

What exactly is wrong with Chinese granite? The granite doesn't know it's Chinese. Half the cobble stones in Dublin are Welsh, but nobody goes round insulting them.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:17 pm

what about irish blue limestone...

Material: Irish Limestone
Architect: Foster & Partners
Landscape Architects: Townshends

In May 2001 More London Development awarded Stone Developments the supply contract for stonework, paving and landscaping at the More London project, one of the largest and most presgitious limestone based projects produced by the company. The completed project holds 30,000m2 of Flame Textured Irish Blue Limestone paving. In addition it includes heavy section Irish limestone for an amphitheatre (‘The Scoop’), balustrading, benches/seating, cladding and water features. The fourth and final phase of the project is due for completion in 2009.

lets get a heavies in flame grilled;)

which gets me thinking I only want 15,000 of the green stuff but 30 will do
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:18 pm

It depends on the variety of granite, gunter. O'Connell Street's (if even Chinese) is a particularly warm and textured version. The white finely grained type however stains very easily and looks very bland and washed out. City Hall plaza a prime example. Also a minor detail being its importation from the other side of the world, and from potentially dubious sources.

spoil sport why do you always have to be such a spoil sport. Tsk. I'm not saying an historical style as an idiom is contextual and well-informed etc, I'm referring specifically to the above design, which in contrast to all the other repro rubbish around the city is actually accurate, of good design and informed by precedent.

I don't dispute a modern style would work well on Grafton Street, nor anywhere else for that matter. I'm saying it would be a personal preference for this particular street, be apt in its low-scale pedestrian context, and would continue the established style of the thoroughfare in a more informed and aesthetically pleasing fashion than what we currently have. You're jumping to conclusions.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby spoil_sport » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:32 pm

I can only draw conclusions from what is written....
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby missarchi » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:35 pm

spoil sport lets do a deal I have a better place for your competition lamps...

metro north or the underground... ask the RPA or CIE

I just want shamrock lamps around the green wink wink

I'm trying to do a deal with Waterford crystal for exclusive rights:p
but they have not got back to me...

Have a go at the RPA CIE and see what response you get...

its in moredublins interest
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:36 pm

DGF wrote:I've always thought that it would be great to get away from the central carriageway with a 'pavement' on either side which was adoped with the original paving scheme.


I disagree, I think the current layout does a good job of regularising & elevating a street that is almost laneway like in parts. Agreed that the number of bollards & obstructions in general are not necessary.
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby TLM » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:34 pm

Are there any firm plans to re-pave and upgrade Grafton St? I know it's now an ACA...
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Re: Grafton Street, Dublin

Postby Peter Fitz » Thu Sep 04, 2008 1:51 pm

No firm plans that i'm aware of but hopefully its somewhere on the radar in DCC. All side & related streets should be repaved also imo and any paving scheme should be extended to lower grafton st., as i said earlier the red paving does a good job of defining the entire area as a distinct city quarter, we shouldn't loose that distinction.

As an aside, not only is there a Dublin in California, but there is also a Grafton Street in Dublin, California ;).
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