Luas Central - Which Route?

Luas Central - Which Route? I would prefer...

Route A
114
37%
Route B
127
41%
Route C
25
8%
Route D
27
9%
Route E
14
5%
 
Total votes : 307

Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Gaudi » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:36 pm

Has anyone ever consider putting the Luas into a tunnel under TCD as a solution. Perhaps it would have to go too deep and the risk of cracking would prevent this?

OR doing the unthinkable and put it actually through TCD, across the back of cricket grounds and rugby pitch and possibly through some of the crap old offices that TCD are planning to redevelop, or through the relatively recently social welfare offices.

An Taisce would no doubt love that idea!!

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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby notjim » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:32 pm

The solution is, of course, to reverse the direction that traffic goes around tcd.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby shamrockmetro » Thu Nov 15, 2007 7:26 pm

i have all the answers!!!!! not

i will post some ideas's later.. they just came to me...
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Peter Fitz » Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:00 am

[quote="The Irish Times"]
New public transport bridge over Liffey agreed
Olivia Kelly

Dublin City Council plans to build a new Luas and public transport bridge across the river Liffey from Marlborough Street to Hawkins Street, even though the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) has yet to determine the route of the proposed Luas line.

The current city development plan allows for the construction of a footbridge at the site. South-east area councillors yesterday approved a council management proposal to seek a change to the development plan to allow the construction of the new bridge from Eden Quay to Burgh Quay.

The council is proposing to build a bridge to accommodate a southbound Luas line as well as two bus lanes, two cycle lanes and two footpaths, and hopes soon to seek tenders for its design. The council said it was seeking a "low-key design" to fit in with the surrounding architecture.

However, while the council is pressing ahead with its plans for the bridge, the RPA has yet to say whether this will be the route for the new Luas BX line, which will connect the Red and Green Luas lines across the city centre.

The RPA last year did identify its preferred option as a line from St Stephen's Green to College Green, down Westmoreland Street and across O'Connell Bridge, down O'Connell Street and back up Marlborough Street to cross a new bridge]


"The council is proposing to build a bridge to accommodate a southbound Luas line as well as two bus lanes, two cycle lanes and two footpaths, and hopes soon to seek tenders for its design. The council said it was seeking a "low-key design" to fit in with the surrounding architecture."

You'd want to make it feckin invisible lads. What kind of width are they talking here ? I'd just about accept a slender little job to facilitate luas (in a trade off to confine the damn thing to marlborough st. - even that presents serious design challenges) but this yoke sounds like its set to challenge O'Connell Bridge itself, essentially 4-5 lanes wide.

The rhythm & flow of the liffey's bridges, fairly evenly spaced it has to be said, is to be botched up.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby rperse » Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:37 pm

After seeing the irresponsible plans favoured for the luas connection route im now of the opinion that a complete rethink is needed. I was in favour of a westland row route but am now of the opinion that none of the listed routes best serve what is trying to be achieved.
The main reason for my change in view has come after seeing plans for the lucan luas line. Two termini are possible: either a bizarre loop around stephens green or an ugly pole heavy terminus in college green. Looking at the rpa map of the scheme you have the strong possibility of two luas lines (Green and Lucan) terminating within 600 yards of each other. My suggestion is to link these two lines.
Reasons being:

1)Both metro and interconnector will link the green and red lines
2) A Bridge at hawkins street would be an irresponsible and arrogant decision
3) The practical alternative to hawkins is o'connell bridge/street causing major disruption
4) Due to the dimensions of both college green and wmorel st, i feel neither should be used
5) The one way marlborough system would be confusing and difficult for future integration and expansion

So heres my idea:
Continue Green Luas up Dawson Street, left onto Nassau St and continue up Suffolk St.
Then turning down church lane (if its wide enough, or trinity st) to dame street connecting with lucan line.
Stops at Dawson St, Suffolk St (again if wide enough) and College green/Bank.
This would of course mean Dublin Bus would have to stop using suffolk st/church lane but a useful link from dame st to stephens green is created without disruption to college green/lower grafton street
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby notjim » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:06 pm

so what is missing from your suggestion is the luas line to grangegorman and liffey junction, at the moment intended as a continuation of bx: of course, once you have your crayons out it is easy to suggest ways around this too.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby jimg » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:01 am

Looks like the whole thing is off or at least it's going to be taken out of T21. To be honest, haven argued storngly for the link up, the proposed preferred route is so awful, I'd rather nothing be done than inflict such a dogs dinner of a route on Dublin for the next 100 years.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby notjim » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:21 am

So the Grangegorman/Liffey junction line will terminate on OCS and the Lucan line at College Green? Won't that mean an awful lot of separate depots etc
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby cgcsb » Tue Mar 11, 2008 5:21 pm

there won't be a liffey jnct. line via grangegorman. The rpa weren't too jazzed about having a luas line that goes that far into the northside anyway
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby notjim » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:10 pm

If the DIT move is to work it needs a Luas line; it also adds huge value to the broadstone bus depot land bank, it is hard to see it not happening.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby jimg » Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:00 pm

It's back to the drawing board for everything that's not already underway as part of the Transport 21 umbrella if you read between the lines of recent ministerial releases. I expect the Green Luas to eventually be extended north and Liffey Junction is as likely as anywhere else to terminate it but nothing will be started before the next phase which could mean 2015. Lucan Luas is not going to happen in the current phase either. We'll get the Interconnector, Dunboyne spur, metro north and possibly metro west, the Luas extensions which are already underway and more buses. I'd be happy enough with that shopping list, to be honest. Outside of rail, the likes of the eastern bypass linking the port tunnel to Leapardstown and the "outer M50" have been explicitly killed for the current transport infrastructure phase.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby cgcsb » Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:37 pm

what stage is this project at? is it defenitely going ahead as planned? is there a timeframe for delivery?
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Peter Fitz » Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:40 pm

cgcsb wrote:what stage is this project at? is it defenitely going ahead as planned? is there a timeframe for delivery?


Do you ever read back through a few posts before posting yourself ?
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Denton » Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:42 pm

With the current economic situation blah blah blah, its best that this project is cancled.

But the money spent on planning it should not go to waste. A route should be fully planed out and selected and provisions taken that this route will be easy to build in future. Ie protecting the infrastructure and free sites along the route in order to build it when we can affod too.


I also think that using the bx line as an excuse to not have a terminus at college green would be a very good option. Terminating at college green could be a mess unless it was held inside the traffic island, which is full of statues as it is. Pedestrainisation of college green is an important thing if it were to continue to westomoreland street. Using the bx line as an excuse to implement pedestrainisation all the way up to o'connell street would be a perfect project but the bx is useless with the metro and even more useless without the D line. So if money is available in future build the Bx as part of the Lucan Luas so as to give a larger reason for fixing up that area that would be more likely to be given a go ahead.


Basically, the Bx can only be built if the lucan luas is built.
The lucan luas is a good excuse to pedestrianise the city centre's main pedestrian artery.
The lucan luas is likely to be cancled, but if pedestrainisation is implemented, even without the bx line, it should be done providing for the 2 lines and bus traffic.

Annother point would be to re-order the one was system in the city centre to avoid college green etc Hard to do with such narrow streets and few places left to go.:confused:
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Busman » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:25 pm

The geometry of the streets is not being used to it's most logical potential, best exemplified by the awkward traffic arrangements around St. Stephen's Green North.

With the possibility of trams arriving into Dame Street, the logical result is for Dame Street to become one way. South Great Georges Street would need to become one way outbound, to prevent the influx of traffic into an area that would not be able to cope. The city central area would need more outbound capacity than inbound, to deter the influx of traffic, and assist the exodus. Traffic bound for the city car parks would still have access, but not at the loss of priority of public transport.

Dublin Bus for their part would need to terminate less buses in the central area, and have less cross city buses, with those cross city buses that remain better coordinated to integrate with other services terminating away from the immediate central area.

Here is a map detailing the most logical traffic flow lines, allowing for one way traffic on Dame Street, to facilitate trams, and keeping the O'Connell Street, Westmoreland Street and College Green axis free from traffic, save perhaps for tour buses, and perhaps for one dedicated single deck central cross city bus service. I would see bus only access between Dawson Street, Suffolk Street and Church Lane.

There is no need at all for a bridge between Marlborough Street and Hawkins Street. I would be against it. Buses should not be encouraged to use that as a cross city artery, it is unsuitable for trams, and would make a mess of the scape of the Liffey and the environment in that prime area.

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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Denton » Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:49 pm

Wow that is a really good network for the buses.

And who ever said cross city had to go through the city? Theres at least 2 routes too the west not using the motorway.


Although that could mean a lot more traffic through Christ Church Terenure etc, which is also looking for a luas:rolleyes:
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby cgcsb » Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:21 pm

There is a cheaper solution for line BX, If the line went underground at Stephen's green and share the tunnel with the Metro upto a point under O'Connell ST., where it would veer east and emerge at the start of Dominick st. Continue up Dominick st and cross over Constitution Hill via a bridge and onto the Broadstone railway alinement and out to Finglas. Everyone's happy, Dublin Bus, DIT and suburban residents associations
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby missarchi » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:39 pm

christchurch should be made a platz...

thanks for that busman! its a start...

I have a funny story I was going to the airport this afternoon trying to get the cheapo 16a I missed it by 200 mts infront of central bank... I jogged in temple bar had no change managed to stop buy something get some change..
missed the bus in westmorland st driver would not let me on keep jogging and manged to beat the bus to the stop in the north of ocon st... all in a days work :D
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby cgcsb » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:56 am

http://www.rpa.ie/en/projects/luas_city_centre/line_and_stop_design/Pages/default.aspx

the project is moving ahead. Slowly but surely in spite of recession
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby PVC King » Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:39 am

Project Overview Luas Line BX
Luas Line BX is the proposed cross city Luas Line that will provide a link between the Red and Green Lines and importantly, will allow an onward extension to Broombridge via Grangegorman and Broadstone. It is intended that a Railway Order application will be made for the combined Luas Line BX and Line D in 2009.


Does anyone know was the application made? Has a unified system come a little closer 4 years late?
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby Frank Taylor » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:29 pm

No railway order yet - although there was a public 'open day' this summer and there is talk of an application next year. DCC said last year that they had decided with the RPA to delay line BX until after the Metro North works are finished in the area. Also they want to build their new malborough st bridge. They estimated last year that the metro works would be ready by 2013 - allowing luas BX to start then. I am guessing this is based on the original transport 21 estimate of 2013 for Metro North completion. At this stage, project bidders are expecting that construction will begin in 2012 and take 6-7 years. So I guess that line BXD might complete by 2020/2022.This is an optimistic estimate given our current circumstances.

As we're 10 years away from high speed/capacity cross-city, public transport, we should really sort out the buses in the meantime.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby PVC King » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:15 pm

Frank

Thanks for your clarification; absolutely ridiculous situation. What could be easier than implementing the orginal Luas route to make sure it is a joined up system. How this got put off and the Citywest extension built one will never know.

With the public purse the way it is and the utter collapse in residential development depriving the proponents of merto north any angle on that scheme then the link up will clearly not be on the cards for at least another decade unless the head comes out of the sand. Why is the simple solution such as joining two seperate Luas lines never acheivable in Dublin?
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby onthejob » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:32 pm

Don’t mean to depress you further but the following is taken from the Independent of the 09/12/09:

No new rail projects until finances get back on track
By Paul Melia
Wednesday December 09 2009
No new rail projects will go ahead until we have more money, the Government admitted yesterday.
Transport Minister Noel Dempsey said that money had been allocated to just two projects -- the Metro North and DART underground in Dublin -- and that all other schemes would be delayed for the foreseeable future.
This means that plans to extend the Luas light-rail system to Lucan, Bray, and Broombridge near Cabra have been put on hold, while the Metro West project linking Tallaght to Dublin Airport will also be now delayed.
The Metro North and DART underground alone are expected to cost in excess of €6.5bn, and all of the projects in the Transport 21 public transport programme were expected to be completed by 2017.
Also expected to be delayed are the Navan train line, while the Tuam to Galway line is likely to stay at the design stage.
Speaking at the opening of the extension of the Red (Tallaght) Luas line to the docklands yesterday, Mr Dempsey said all projects would be brought through the planning process but that building work would not begin until money was available.
Committed
"Both of them, the Metro and DART underground, are in the capital programme going forward," he said. "The Government is absolutely committed to both of those programmes.
"There's a couple of other Luas extensions that will open over the next couple of years, and further ones that are in planning," he said.
"We intend to ensure we can bring all of those through planning and design and then we will build when we have the money to build.
"It's not going to be possible to build within the same timeframe. They will be built as soon as we have the finances."
The 1.5km journey from the Luas stop at Busarus to The Point took just over seven minutes on the first night of operation for the Luas extension into the city's docklands.
Eager young fans going to the Lily Allen concert at The O2 arena crowded onto the tram for the speedy journey.
Trams were also ready to pick the thousands of fans up after the concert and take them back into the city.
The Luas extension to Cherrywood is expected to open in the second half of next year, while an extension to Citywest will open in 2011. Both are part-funded by the private sector.
The Luas Docklands (C1) extension will carry 1.8 million passengers a year. There are four stops -- George's Dock, Mayor Square, Spencer Dock and The Point.
Public consultation on the line began in January 2001, and the final route was selected in November 2003.
Work began in February 2007 after planning permission was secured, and it cost €90m to build and was completed on time and within budget.
Direction
Journey times from Tallaght to The Point will take 52 minutes, while trams will run in the opposite direction every six and a half minutes at peak times and every eight minutes at all other times on weekdays.
Railway Procurement Agen chief executive Frank Allen said he was delighted the first new extension to Luas was ready to go into service.
- Paul Melia
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:36 pm

Citywest is (for most part) being funded privately, even before the current state of finances that was the appetising route for Govt.
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Re: Luas Central - Which Route?

Postby d_d_dallas » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:38 pm

sorry - post made before onthejob's
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