New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby GrahamH » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:37 pm

That is a most pleasing massing of forms and materials with an appropriate scale. Why can't we have more of this when it comes to urban infill down in the city? Very nice.

spoil_sport wrote:These courts, for me have no more presence than the new eircom HQ across the river, or Dundrum shopping centre.


Alas, this sums it up for me too. Chic and attractive, but little of the gravitas one would expect of the preeminent public building of our times in the city, and immediate descendant of the Four Courts. In concept, it has touches of the Elysian in Cork - not that I wish to taint it unduly with such an association - but also of trends in architecture generally of late, where the form of a building is given the same status, indeed if not less, than the materials it is built of. It is akin to the typical Irish homebuilder, where it matters little what the house looks like, as long as 'expensive' materials are used in its construction and fit-out.

While the Criminal Courts of Justice unquestionably attempts a bold form, it is let down by too many self-conscious, 'high quality' materials, but moreover, a multitude of elements that seem to have been employed to accommodate or showcase them.

I suppose what it comes down to is, should glazing be used to such a dominant degree in a public building in a way that makes it look like every other commercial building in the city? A Custom House constructed of red brick would be quite the spectacle.
GrahamH
Old Master
 
Posts: 4580
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:24 am
Location: Ireland

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby BTH » Wed Nov 25, 2009 5:01 pm

The Montpelier Hill side is much better I must say - though it looks like it was designed by a different architect to the rest of the building!
BTH
Member
 
Posts: 260
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 1999 1:00 am
Location: Galway

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby reddy » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:26 pm

Now that its nearly finished I still like it I must say. The drum form is a nice echo of the civic drums strung along the liffey - down to the new conference centre - while not being a direct interpretation of the four courts.

The round form is an intriguing resolution of the corner - its scale seems well suited to the location.

The materials don't strike me as too bad - that photo in the Irish times has a nice depth and solidity to it - the upper levels aren't fantastic alright but the layering of the materials gives it a depth, scale and a changing texture which most glazed corporate buildings sorely lack.

Have to agree about the public space outside tho - while the hoardings were still up I thought there might be a lovely space created between the curving base and those great trees.

Definitely a few niggling issues but overall I think this is a pretty good addition to the city.

Some nice pics here with thanks to Michael Stamp:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_stamp/4089309643/in/set-72157622768404982/
reddy
Member
 
Posts: 313
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:03 am
Location: Dublin

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby missarchi » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:34 pm

So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby Global Citizen » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:11 pm

GrahamH wrote:That is a most pleasing massing of forms and materials with an appropriate scale. Why can't we have more of this when it comes to urban infill down in the city? Very nice...................



Alas, this sums it up for me too. Chic and attractive, but little of the gravitas one would expect of the preeminent public building of our times in the city, and immediate descendant of the Four Courts....


Very diplomatic !
Global Citizen
Member
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Location: Global

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby Global Citizen » Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:16 pm

missarchi wrote:So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?


Not necessarily
Given that the new courthouse is set aside for criminals,
Global Citizen
Member
 
Posts: 197
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:23 am
Location: Global

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby OisinT » Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:57 pm

missarchi wrote:So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?

No civil matters will be dealt with at the CCJ. The civil courts are in pretty good shape at the moment in the Four Courts, but the criminal matters were in shockingly bad courts in the Bridewell and others.
The old Bridewell and others will be totally refitted for minor civil matters that are currently crammed into tiny courts upstairs in the Four Courts.
OisinT
Member
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:20 pm

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby lostexpectation » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:06 am

Prison vans clog streets at new €140M courts because they have nowhere to park

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/prison-vans-clog-streets-at-new-euro140m-courts-because-they-have-nowhere-to-park-2028839.html
The Courts Service has defended the building -- which was officially opened by President Mary McAleese on Saturday. The service insists it is up to the drivers of all "non-operational" vehicles to find their own parking in the area.

idiots, always though there wasn't much room around the building
lostexpectation
Senior Member
 
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:38 pm

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby fergalr » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:34 pm

lostexpectation wrote:
idiots, always though there wasn't much room around the building


Not much room in the building either. It's extraordinary how little thought has gone into the accommodation of the public. There's seating room for maybe 20-30 people in each courtroom, presuming that they are all the same size. I've been up in Court 19 watching the Lillis trial and practicing my shorthand. That public seating is about a third to a quarter of what the four principal courtrooms in the Four Courts could take when the balconies above the courtroom are included.

My second gripe is the lack of crowd control measures. There are pitifully few Courts Service employees to be seen on landings outside the courtrooms. Not only that but the queues that build up invariable take on the usual anarchic Irish scrum shape in front of the door, because no one has had the wit erect some queuing "tape", like any good bank or cinema would. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if the courtrooms were open to the public when the building opens, like in the Four Courts. In the new building, they are opened at some point around 10:30. What happened to having your punctiliousness rewarded with a seat? (This is a minor gripe from someone who is always on time).

Lastly, there are only four small lifts for the entire building - unless the Law Library and other departments have seperate ones. They are packed with barristers, gardai and joe publics at all hours of the day. Again, not much foresight has gone into the number of people who might stream into the building to watch a criminal case.

Oh... sorry. One more thing. There is an airport-style liquids ban in the building. Didn't I learn my lesson when I had the cheek to bring a store-bought bottle in with me during the week. Nice little monopoly for the canteen and completely over the top security concerns.
fergalr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Howth, Co. Dublin

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby fergalr » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:28 pm

Sneak peek :)

<img src="http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4133/2501105.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2921/2501106.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/259/2501104.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/339/2501102.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25
fergalr
Senior Member
 
Posts: 511
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:33 pm
Location: Howth, Co. Dublin

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby OisinT » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:54 am

fergalr wrote:Not much room in the building either. It's extraordinary how little thought has gone into the accommodation of the public. There's seating room for maybe 20-30 people in each courtroom, presuming that they are all the same size. I've been up in Court 19 watching the Lillis trial and practicing my shorthand. That public seating is about a third to a quarter of what the four principal courtrooms in the Four Courts could take when the balconies above the courtroom are included.


Court 19 is small, I'll admit... but the reason for that is it is usually not meant to be housing a Media spectacle of that size. The amount of old people in there just to see the "story" is amazing. The District Courts are much bigger due to the higher volume they deal with daily. I also don't think Court 19 is any smaller than the main courts in the Four Courts. I would have, however, like to have seen a separate family area.

fergalr wrote:My second gripe is the lack of crowd control measures. There are pitifully few Courts Service employees to be seen on landings outside the courtrooms. Not only that but the queues that build up invariable take on the usual anarchic Irish scrum shape in front of the door, because no one has had the wit erect some queuing "tape", like any good bank or cinema would. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if the courtrooms were open to the public when the building opens, like in the Four Courts. In the new building, they are opened at some point around 10:30. What happened to having your punctiliousness rewarded with a seat? (This is a minor gripe from someone who is always on time).


I agree with you on this. Also, for the amount of screening they're putting people through, you'd think they'd have at least another screening queue.

fergalr wrote:Lastly, there are only four small lifts for the entire building - unless the Law Library and other departments have seperate ones. They are packed with barristers, gardai and joe publics at all hours of the day. Again, not much foresight has gone into the number of people who might stream into the building to watch a criminal case.


The lifts are slow, but I'd imagine when there isn't a huge case on like Lillis they would be ok. Although there are 6 floors, the lifts only service 3 or 4 floors. I almost always take the stairs up unless I'm going to the 6th floor.

fergalr wrote:Oh... sorry. One more thing. There is an airport-style liquids ban in the building. Didn't I learn my lesson when I had the cheek to bring a store-bought bottle in with me during the week. Nice little monopoly for the canteen and completely over the top security concerns.


I believe this has to do with the extra security necessary since the Special Criminal Court has moved into the building also.
OisinT
Member
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:20 pm

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby Service charge » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:23 am

Seeing in today's IT that the OPW owns a large brown field site beside the Law Library I cannot understand the decision to put the Courts by the park.

The site on church street is large enough, I always assumed it wasn't in state ownership.

Putting the courts so far away is draining life away from a poor area of the city and missed a great opportunity to have a legal quarter in the city.
Service charge
Member
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:16 am

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby missarchi » Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:56 am

blind justice?

mark 2

Image
missarchi
Old Master
 
Posts: 1796
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 7:53 pm

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby StephenC » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:47 am

I had the pleasure recently of a tour of the Criminal Courts on Infirmary Road and took a few shots of the interior which might be of interest as I am sure most of you will never get to see inside ( )

All familiar with the exterior

Image

The Great Hall..a really impressive space. The quality of the materials is particularly high.

Image

Image

Image
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2483
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Re: New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

Postby StephenC » Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:53 am

All the courtrooms are accessed from the balconies of the Great Hall

Image

Image

Image

The quality of the finish throughout is very high. It feels like a building that will last. Also a good balance struck between functionality and need for gravitas.

The interior of a courtroom...Mr Justice Carney's I'm told although the original intention was that judges would alternate the use of courtrooms. Each Courtroom served by a small annex holding judges chambers (not seen) and separate staircases for the arraigned and juries.

Image

Image
User avatar
StephenC
Old Master
 
Posts: 2483
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Dublin

Previous

Return to Ireland



cron