New Court Complex - Infirmary Rd

[GrahamH]

That is a most pleasing massing of forms and materials with an appropriate scale. Why can't we have more of this when it comes to urban infill down in the city? Very nice.

These courts, for me have no more presence than the new eircom HQ across the river, or Dundrum shopping centre.

Alas, this sums it up for me too. Chic and attractive, but little of the gravitas one would expect of the preeminent public building of our times in the city, and immediate descendant of the Four Courts. In concept, it has touches of the Elysian in Cork - not that I wish to taint it unduly with such an association - but also of trends in architecture generally of late, where the form of a building is given the same status, indeed if not less, than the materials it is built of. It is akin to the typical Irish homebuilder, where it matters little what the house looks like, as long as 'expensive' materials are used in its construction and fit-out.

While the Criminal Courts of Justice unquestionably attempts a bold form, it is let down by too many self-conscious, 'high quality' materials, but moreover, a multitude of elements that seem to have been employed to accommodate or showcase them.

I suppose what it comes down to is, should glazing be used to such a dominant degree in a public building in a way that makes it look like every other commercial building in the city? A Custom House constructed of red brick would be quite the spectacle.

[BTH]

The Montpelier Hill side is much better I must say - though it looks like it was designed by a different architect to the rest of the building!

[reddy]

Now that its nearly finished I still like it I must say. The drum form is a nice echo of the civic drums strung along the liffey - down to the new conference centre - while not being a direct interpretation of the four courts.

The round form is an intriguing resolution of the corner - its scale seems well suited to the location.

The materials don't strike me as too bad - that photo in the Irish times has a nice depth and solidity to it - the upper levels aren't fantastic alright but the layering of the materials gives it a depth, scale and a changing texture which most glazed corporate buildings sorely lack.

Have to agree about the public space outside tho - while the hoardings were still up I thought there might be a lovely space created between the curving base and those great trees.

Definitely a few niggling issues but overall I think this is a pretty good addition to the city.

Some nice pics here with thanks to Michael Stamp:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_stamp/4089309643/in/set-72157622768404982/

[missarchi]

So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?

[Global Citizen]

That is a most pleasing massing of forms and materials with an appropriate scale. Why can't we have more of this when it comes to urban infill down in the city? Very nice...................



Alas, this sums it up for me too. Chic and attractive, but little of the gravitas one would expect of the preeminent public building of our times in the city, and immediate descendant of the Four Courts....

Very diplomatic !

[Global Citizen]

So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?

Not necessarily
Given that the new courthouse is set aside for criminals,

[OisinT]

So this means that architects will now be going to the green st to defend high court appeals?

No civil matters will be dealt with at the CCJ. The civil courts are in pretty good shape at the moment in the Four Courts, but the criminal matters were in shockingly bad courts in the Bridewell and others.
The old Bridewell and others will be totally refitted for minor civil matters that are currently crammed into tiny courts upstairs in the Four Courts.

[lostexpectation]

Prison vans clog streets at new €140M courts because they have nowhere to park

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/prison-vans-clog-streets-at-new-euro140m-courts-because-they-have-nowhere-to-park-2028839.html
The Courts Service has defended the building -- which was officially opened by President Mary McAleese on Saturday. The service insists it is up to the drivers of all "non-operational" vehicles to find their own parking in the area.

idiots, always though there wasn't much room around the building

[fergalr]

idiots, always though there wasn't much room around the building

Not much room in the building either. It's extraordinary how little thought has gone into the accommodation of the public. There's seating room for maybe 20-30 people in each courtroom, presuming that they are all the same size. I've been up in Court 19 watching the Lillis trial and practicing my shorthand. That public seating is about a third to a quarter of what the four principal courtrooms in the Four Courts could take when the balconies above the courtroom are included.

My second gripe is the lack of crowd control measures. There are pitifully few Courts Service employees to be seen on landings outside the courtrooms. Not only that but the queues that build up invariable take on the usual anarchic Irish scrum shape in front of the door, because no one has had the wit erect some queuing "tape", like any good bank or cinema would. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if the courtrooms were open to the public when the building opens, like in the Four Courts. In the new building, they are opened at some point around 10:30. What happened to having your punctiliousness rewarded with a seat? (This is a minor gripe from someone who is always on time).

Lastly, there are only four small lifts for the entire building - unless the Law Library and other departments have seperate ones. They are packed with barristers, gardai and joe publics at all hours of the day. Again, not much foresight has gone into the number of people who might stream into the building to watch a criminal case.

Oh... sorry. One more thing. There is an airport-style liquids ban in the building. Didn't I learn my lesson when I had the cheek to bring a store-bought bottle in with me during the week. Nice little monopoly for the canteen and completely over the top security concerns.

[fergalr]

Sneak peek

<img src="http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4133/2501105.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/2921/2501106.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/259/2501104.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

<img src="http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/339/2501102.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/>
Shot with <a target="_new" href="http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=6300&make=Nokia">6300</a> at 2010-01-25

[OisinT]

Not much room in the building either. It's extraordinary how little thought has gone into the accommodation of the public. There's seating room for maybe 20-30 people in each courtroom, presuming that they are all the same size. I've been up in Court 19 watching the Lillis trial and practicing my shorthand. That public seating is about a third to a quarter of what the four principal courtrooms in the Four Courts could take when the balconies above the courtroom are included.

Court 19 is small, I'll admit... but the reason for that is it is usually not meant to be housing a Media spectacle of that size. The amount of old people in there just to see the "story" is amazing. The District Courts are much bigger due to the higher volume they deal with daily. I also don't think Court 19 is any smaller than the main courts in the Four Courts. I would have, however, like to have seen a separate family area.

My second gripe is the lack of crowd control measures. There are pitifully few Courts Service employees to be seen on landings outside the courtrooms. Not only that but the queues that build up invariable take on the usual anarchic Irish scrum shape in front of the door, because no one has had the wit erect some queuing "tape", like any good bank or cinema would. Of course, this wouldn't be a problem if the courtrooms were open to the public when the building opens, like in the Four Courts. In the new building, they are opened at some point around 10:30. What happened to having your punctiliousness rewarded with a seat? (This is a minor gripe from someone who is always on time).

I agree with you on this. Also, for the amount of screening they're putting people through, you'd think they'd have at least another screening queue.

Lastly, there are only four small lifts for the entire building - unless the Law Library and other departments have seperate ones. They are packed with barristers, gardai and joe publics at all hours of the day. Again, not much foresight has gone into the number of people who might stream into the building to watch a criminal case.

The lifts are slow, but I'd imagine when there isn't a huge case on like Lillis they would be ok. Although there are 6 floors, the lifts only service 3 or 4 floors. I almost always take the stairs up unless I'm going to the 6th floor.

Oh... sorry. One more thing. There is an airport-style liquids ban in the building. Didn't I learn my lesson when I had the cheek to bring a store-bought bottle in with me during the week. Nice little monopoly for the canteen and completely over the top security concerns.

I believe this has to do with the extra security necessary since the Special Criminal Court has moved into the building also.

[Service charge]

Seeing in today's IT that the OPW owns a large brown field site beside the Law Library I cannot understand the decision to put the Courts by the park.

The site on church street is large enough, I always assumed it wasn't in state ownership.

Putting the courts so far away is draining life away from a poor area of the city and missed a great opportunity to have a legal quarter in the city.

[missarchi]

blind justice?

mark 2

[StephenC]

I had the pleasure recently of a tour of the Criminal Courts on Infirmary Road and took a few shots of the interior which might be of interest as I am sure most of you will never get to see inside ( )

All familiar with the exterior



The Great Hall..a really impressive space. The quality of the materials is particularly high.

[StephenC]

All the courtrooms are accessed from the balconies of the Great Hall







The quality of the finish throughout is very high. It feels like a building that will last. Also a good balance struck between functionality and need for gravitas.

The interior of a courtroom...Mr Justice Carney's I'm told although the original intention was that judges would alternate the use of courtrooms. Each Courtroom served by a small annex holding judges chambers (not seen) and separate staircases for the arraigned and juries.