Dublin skyline

Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Rusty Cogs » Wed May 03, 2006 8:26 pm

Pepsi wrote:Does anyone know when the tower at the Point Village will begin? Is it this year?


The Irish Times quoted Cosbie last week stating that the whole project would begin very shortly and take three years to complete. I guess that means 2012?
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby phil » Wed May 03, 2006 9:15 pm

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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Pepsi » Wed May 03, 2006 9:22 pm

Does anyone have a link to the Irish Times report that Rusty Cogs is talking about? Thanks.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Morlan » Thu May 04, 2006 1:29 am

The tower, facing the U2 Tower on Britain Quay on the opposite bank of the Liffey, would "form a dramatic marine gateway into the city",


Dramatic? :rolleyes:

I am looking forward to seeing the new Beckett Bridge with the two towers on either side of it - it's a start at least.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby paul h » Thu May 04, 2006 1:30 am

has the design changed or is it stil that run of the mill looking apt tower?
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Morlan » Thu May 04, 2006 2:30 am

That's the one.

While it's a good sketch, it would be nice to see some computer genrated images of it. I'm sure we will see more pictures when the development starts - they usually paste up images of the development on the building site hoardings.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby GregF » Thu May 04, 2006 1:46 pm

I've said it already , but it looks like something that was built in 1960's England.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PVC King » Thu May 04, 2006 1:55 pm

Whats worse they are putting similar up outside London signing up signature architects such as John Rocha whose recent Birmingham development is equally poor; there is another similar tower to clear planning in Bristol.

Dublin needs to be more ambitious than this
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Pepsi » Thu May 04, 2006 2:09 pm

I was shocked to hear that this is actually being built and soon. I know it's not the most attractive looking building but it's a start. The Republic of Ireland will actually have a skyscraper! It's about time.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PVC King » Thu May 04, 2006 3:12 pm

Pepsi wrote:I know it's not the most attractive looking building but it's a start.


Tall buildings of poor quality will make it harder for taller buildings of merit to be built and not easier as detractors will be right to point to poor buildings as good reason not to allow them.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PDLL » Thu May 04, 2006 3:35 pm

Would agree with Thomond Park on that. The building looks like something that fell off an architect's drawing board in some former Soviet state. Dublin has a perfect opporutinty to have high-rise buildings that demonstrate that they have learned from the mistakes of the past. This one really bespeaks the grimy misery of somewhere like Birmingham or Kiev or Minsk in the 1960s. Surely the Celtic Tiger can produce better than that.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Pepsi » Thu May 04, 2006 4:35 pm

It might actually look better when it is built. We will have to wait and see. To be honest I've seen a lot worse... Hawkins House, Ballymun...
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby Pepsi » Thu May 04, 2006 4:40 pm

I really like the new version of the U2 Tower. It's a pitty there isn't more of this type of building going up. I have heard that a lot of people like it in it's updated form.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PVC King » Thu May 04, 2006 5:10 pm

Pepsi wrote:To be honest I've seen a lot worse... Hawkins House, Ballymun...


I take a different view]http://www.panpeninsula.com/site/pp_main.php[/url]

To add insult to injury the above is developed by an Irish company
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby geraghtyg » Thu May 04, 2006 6:36 pm

I find it strange that people oppose high rise buildings when we've had the equivalent of two 70 story buildings over 200 metres tall in Ringsend which are visible outside of Dublin in neighboring counties. The "chimney stacks" are not exactly attractive yet they are there!!! If we can have the equivalent of 70 story towers over a fifth of a kilometre tall in the city, why can't we have some inhabited buidlings???
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby publicrealm » Fri May 05, 2006 12:25 am

Thomond Park wrote:I take a different view]http://www.panpeninsula.com/site/pp_main.php[/url]

To add insult to injury the above is developed by an Irish company



A very interesting link Thomond Park. You can open the floor plans from it - the higher level 'Premier' (Premium?)apartments have over 1,770 sq m floor area and all the higher levels have enormous (by Oirish standards) floor space.

Well done to Ballymore Homes.

(A pity about the 'beautiful people' shown in the 'skylounge' images - isn't that lady Vampirella? ;)
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby paul h » Fri May 05, 2006 1:49 am

[quote="Dublin needs to be more ambitious than this[/QUOTE"]

very true thomond park especially with the huge negative attitude towards high rise
this one should have been of a very high standard like the U2 building
as it could have been a showcase to what high rise living could be in ireland
what we have is an apartment building which can be found in almost every city in the world, no imagination.

this was just granted pp in london, its mixed use hotel, office, apartments etc so maybe unfair to compare
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby GregF » Fri May 05, 2006 12:28 pm

Ah,.... the 'Shard of Glass' as it's known as, I think. Wouldn't it look good down the Dublin docks. I have to say again that we are frightingly conservative here in Ireland when compared to our English neighbours when it comes to the arts and in particular, architecture. We blag on about our bubbly pesonalities and the gift of the gab and all that but when it comes to anything radical regarding architecture we are firmly stuck in the bog. It's kinda shameful really.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PVC King » Fri May 05, 2006 12:35 pm

But doesn't the comparison that the photo displays between the different eras of high rise show the way the maturity that has evolved in relation to tall buildings accross the pond?

It appears that in London refinement as opposed to rejection has led to a more varied and attractive sky line; that said they are very selective on where tall buildings have the potential to make a positive contribution.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby phil » Fri May 05, 2006 12:58 pm

I can only seem to find one image of the Point Village Tower online. It is the one that is used on this webpage: http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2006/000103.html

There doesn't seem to be any information about it on the Scott Tallon Walker web-page. Does anyone know of any other existing photomontages or any other details available on-line? Whilst I don't think it looks all that inspiring from the picture that I have seen of it I personally dont think I can base my opinion solely on this image. Its form sort of reminds me of the Millenium Tower on Grand Canal, but it is too difficult to say for sure. I would believe that we can only really have a proper discussion on the merits of this building upon seeing more images of it. I have tried a search on the DCC webpage for the planning application, but to no avail.

Regarding the 'Shard of Glass' image above, I think it is important to look at it in contrast to the Guys Hospital building beside it. Whilst maybe it is possible to appreciate its brutalist form in some respect, it really does not do anything for the area it is in (aesthetically of course, as oppossed to functionally), and I doubt the people living around it would have much enthusiasm for it as a structure. This, I believe, makes designing quality tall structures all the more important. Instead of rejoicing in getting tall buildings like it is some sort or right of passage we should look at them based on their merits, and their ability to last the test of time.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PDLL » Fri May 05, 2006 1:55 pm

It has to be said though, that the very fact that we continue to have a discussion on whether we should or should not go down the tall building road says everything about the way we are as a culture. Is it because tall buildings, like abortion, contraception, secularism, and so on, are the most physical embodiment of a 'modern' urbanised Ireland that undermines the values that have been perceived to be the very foundations upon which the State is built? This is, after all, what is implicit in the concept of a 'right of passage' - the construction of tall buildings seem to be understood to stand as physical landmarks in Ireland's journey towards secular modernity. In Ireland, the construction of tall buildings is not about the physical process of building big, it is more about our national self-perception and the image of Ireland we wish to portray. We have not been able to build big because we seem condemned by whatever factors (colonial heritage??) to think small - to try to curl up into an unnoticeable ball of non-existence on the west coast of Europe. What other reasons could there be for our equivocation when it come sto this architectural form?? Is it because tall buildings smack too much of the perceived godlessness of America. Is it because Ireland - still pulling the dead weight of the Catholic church behind it - seems to have been too influenced by the association between skyscrapers, financial gain and immorality implicit in the opening shots of Dallas in the 80s? Room for a PhD there.

Whatever is the reason, if there are urban planners, architects and social theorists reading this forum in other countries, I am sure they are laughing themselves silly at this discussion. For Christ's sake, lets quite the bullshit and just get on with it. If such buildings can be economically justified and aesthetically designed for the betterment of the Irish cityscape then lets just do it and not spend the next 2 decades revelling in a teenage angst that most other countries buried in the rubble of the last world war.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby damnedarchitect » Fri May 05, 2006 2:16 pm

geraghtyg wrote:I find it strange that people oppose high rise buildings when we've had the equivalent of two 70 story buildings over 200 metres tall in Ringsend which are visible outside of Dublin in neighboring counties. The "chimney stacks" are not exactly attractive yet they are there!!! If we can have the equivalent of 70 story towers over a fifth of a kilometre tall in the city, why can't we have some inhabited buidlings???


Absolutely. It's just typical Ireland: 'Ah sure they've done their time, we're used to them'.
We should think in absolute terms . There are two massive ugly pipes sticking out of the poolbeg peninsula.
What's wrong with a well designed, and dare I say, groundbreaking tall building?
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby phil » Fri May 05, 2006 2:17 pm

PDLL, maybe you misunderstood me. I am saying that we should judge taller buildings on their individual merits, and not simply on the basis of them being taller, and therefore being somehow better for that reason alone. I suppose I am using the Guys Hospital as an example to illustrate what you and TP had said earlier.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PDLL » Fri May 05, 2006 2:24 pm

I think we share a similar approach - hence my remarks on betterment of the cityscape. I would hate to see Dublin look like Birmingham or Minsk, believe me.
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Re: Dublin skyline

Postby PVC King » Fri May 05, 2006 2:40 pm

PDLL wrote: If such buildings can be economically justified and aesthetically designed for the betterment of the Irish cityscape then lets just do it.


Can't argue with that;

A lot of the problem rests with past developments such as Hawkins House etc and proposals such as the first Spencer Dock proposal. I genuinely believe that the SOM proposal for Georges Quay would have cleared planning if it were not for the first Spencer Dock application.

The Dunloe proposal for John Rogersons Quay clearly displays that all stakeholders will sign up to a well designed building in an appropriate site.

The missing link with the exception of the two examples (SOM & Dunloe) has been attractive proposals; an unfortunate reality is that economic viability can go against expensive structures such as the Shard or the Gherkin. I hope that more proposals emerge along the standards of the SOM proposal and that they do so in the docklands area.

It is up to developers to decide if they want to play safe and construct 6-12 storey lego or take some risks
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