32-floor building planned for Dublin

Postby PVC King » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:12 pm

The reason the IFA are to blame is that they instructed all their members not to deal with the compulsory purchase agents. It held everything up by about two years.

Loughrea is a nightmare, I found the rezoning of lands containing the bypass route to industrial use one of the worst and most corrupt rezonings I have ever seen.

It is almost as good as planning being given for a house on the route of the proposed Luas extension to Cherrywood, a full year after the route was agreed.
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Postby FIN » Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:24 pm

i know..makes no sense at all. u would think that our publis reps. would be just slightly smarter if they want to be corrupt. mind u they have been getting away with it for years....
and fair play the planner u gave that house the go ahead. he/she is definately earmarked for the darwin award
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:52 am

i think i talked too soon. some objectors to loughrea by-pass!!!! when will this country learn.

anyway. has this building gone in for planning?
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 09, 2004 11:59 am

Re Loughrea, no doubt the objectors are the buddies of the councillors who rezoned their lands industrial. Claiming that will interfere with my new and hard won access rights. Wheres my flyover to build my ALDI?
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:04 pm

:-)
have no doubts about that. i didn't get my lands rezoned so there is going to be no bypass... class isn't it.
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:05 pm

Originally posted by Diaspora
The reason the IFA are to blame is that they instructed all their members not to deal with the compulsory purchase agents.


sorry i knows a bit back but i thought that cpo are exactly that...there is no option ????
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:06 pm

It would be hillarious if it didn't involve the third most important road in the Country
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:07 pm

well first as far as i'm concerned but then again i'm biased in this regard.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:11 pm

To Quote Dermot Lacy former Lord Mayor of Dublin "You can't move 40 foot containers on the back of a Bicycle"

I am also biased towards particular infrastructural projects.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:22 pm

The CPO process is very fair and transparent there is a first instance assessment. Upon which an offer is made, then a little negotiation. If no consensus emerges an independent arbitrator is appointed and the appointment must be agreed by both parties.

There is then an option of appeal to the High Court on legal grounds but not on the award.

The IFA decided that they wanted more than open market value for members lands, the government caved in to their junior minister and there are rumours that Brussels is investigating.
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:22 pm

people making rash assumptions again..how does he know? did he try it? :-) what was that in relation to?
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Postby FIN » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:24 pm

that seems a bit daft... they should have no opotion but to accept market value. greedy bastards.
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Postby PVC King » Fri Jan 09, 2004 12:25 pm

The Port Tunnel,

He'd certainly make Ripley's believe it if he pulled even an empty container along.
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Postby garethace » Fri Jan 09, 2004 10:19 pm

btw guys, I said I would link this just for the glass and steel, CG visualisation fans here. Enjoy!

CG Architect


Page 2.

Page 3.

Just make sure you are on a fast connection! :-)


I am not too familiar with developers myself, but I did stumble across an article about a Toronto developer, which might prove interesting to thread readers on this topic.

Toronto developer
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Postby garethace » Sat Jan 10, 2004 4:46 pm

Some interesting thoughts about Toronto in that article, had a good read of it this morning. What did you people think at all?
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Postby PVC King » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:08 pm

Re article originally posted by garretace

Toronto developer

Very much so,

A pretty impressive resume. I like the feature on the interior which looks very livible.

Very interesting trends about the blandness of very diverse suburb types.

I also noted the height limit that this award winning architect builds to of 13 storeys.

I would like to see pictures of the exterior of a few of his buildings. Very original no doubt

:)
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Postby garethace » Sat Jan 10, 2004 8:30 pm

Yeah, there were so specific points I meant to scribble down properly while reading it this morning - I will get back to that again, some specific points worth bringing up in this thread I think. I must read the article again, though to remember.
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Postby PVC King » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:16 pm

Any sign of the photos Brian?
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Postby garethace » Thu Jan 15, 2004 3:24 pm

I linked it on the other thread a while ago; I wrote a couple of words and posted up some images here:

BTW, you may need quite a fast connection to see all the photos, and a big display would be handy, or else just wait a long while on a slower connection, as I often have to do. :-(

My ideas about Thom Mayne's work

It is quite simple actually, that architects should play war strategy games like Shogun Total War, in order to become more versatile with the way that they use computer interfaces.

I have been pretty busy of late writing a Photoshop benchmark, to go into a suite of major benchmarks soon. See how it develops, but I wanted to make sure that how Architects might use a Photoshop system in future should be part of 'a benchmark result'.

I.e. quite heavy image working.
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Postby garethace » Thu Jan 15, 2004 6:10 pm

Basically, while a lot of computer software out there claims to be very suitable for architects because it draws/models doors and windows instead of lines and arcs - I believe that software will only be really useful for architects when it finally becomes to model or draw the kinds of things which architects think in terms of - that is numbers of people who are going to use the eventual structure and get around the institution.

If it is possible to control armies of these little guys running around the screne, then why can't that notion be applied to architectural design software? Stupid idea, stupid question - but I think now that computers are reaching maturity, it is time for some refreshing and new ideas. Because people seem to have written them off basically at this stage, and people seem to feel a heck of a lot more comfortable now that 'computers have failed' to help the way that architects design anything.

Oh well, it just means a few less billion for AutoDesk I guess! :-)
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Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 19, 2004 9:01 pm

Maybe someone could start a service where you could send cad-drawings via the net or on a DVD-Rom and a sufficiently large computer could do the calculations.

Behaviour profiling would be very useful in designing large-scale projects.

It would also be very useful to Health & Safety practicioners.

The question is would you use Matt Groonings
profile for the Irish ala the St Patricks day episode?
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Postby garethace » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:48 pm

AI, well what Medieval Total war does, is it adjusts the AI for various units of soldiers - like some behave with a lot more cowardice than others do. On the other hand, some stay and fight, when perhaps they should actually run. You are expected to understand this yourself, and as a general you are expected to make the necessary adjustments.

I don't know if I mentioned this in the past, but WWI relied heavily on improvements in defensive war, which were not met by equal but opposite improvements to offensive war.

I.e.

* Tinned food, soldiers fought through the winters.
* Barred wire, stopped cavalry charges, which broke up dead-locks.
* Hydraulic canon firing - no need to reset aim, meaning continuous rate of fire of heavy artillery.
* Telephone - allowed better distribution and organisation of resources along a long front, making breakthroughs more difficult.

Medieval warfare was beautiful - the archers when first introduced could just win on their own - so cavalry was needed to break up the archers, while spearmen were needed to resist cavalry.

PowerRes is something similar to what you said, about submitting work online to do large calculations

http://www.respower.com/news_2004_01_16_max6

I can see, that would be the best direction for rendering and certain AI software like we are discussing.

But in fairness, given the description of Medieval Total War gaming strategy above - I think that the best way to approach something like a building for the public, say it be part of a campus like in UCD, DCU or Trinity - or an extension to the National Gallery of Ireland, or an Olympic Swimming Pool, or a new National COnference centre - is simply to thing of the people using the institution as dynamic units.

Doing so, by using computers to highlight pedestrian flow patterns etc, you could anticipate a heck of a lot more about a design, than simply worrying about the colour of the f*** blinds, mullions, carpets, which are nice to get right, but what architects devote much too large a portion of their time doing.

I can never help when looking at these pictures;

http://www.hughpearman.com/articles3/dublin5.html

how much of the medieval pedestrian narrow street idea has been brought into the architecture there. How people move through the architecture - not like some really static wonder structure like a Mies van der Rohe. I guess people like James Stirling were also instrumental in bringing back some of this dynamic experience of architecture.

Then I see pictures like this one;

http://www.totalwar.com/community/bat9.htm

And I am automatically reminded that the old architecture in those days was much more inhabited, vibrant with lots of characters and busy people. Than the experience you get nowadays of medieval, which is normally something rather desolate and barren, renovated by the OPW! :-) Yeah, they had the budget for the nice paving, but something is missing.

Whenever, I come across bits of medieval embedded into parts of cities, that are still in use - I think that medieval architecture, streets and spaces really do still live. I think FIn mentions Italy being a place where that is the case - I know if I ever went there to visit, I would be looking at the architecture from that point of view.

I am not sure what kind of public liability clauses they had in medieval times though, for people falling from ramparts etc, but it was much more fun!
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Postby PVC King » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:59 pm

I think the Medievel lords had the odd citizen getting chucked of the ramparts built into their AI strategies!!!!

But it really does beg the question why this type of profiling isn't done.


If you want certain documentary changes you go to Hackets or Oxwood. They give new perspectives, this if it came to pass would be revolutionary in terms of extending perspective.

A bit like the clarks shoes add of about 10 years ago with the two different conveyer belts of babies.
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Postby FIN » Tue Jan 20, 2004 11:11 am

yeah it was italy. i was there last year for a medieval festival. it was in some small town about an hour outside rome. like paddy's day but much more interesting. had a play basically played on the street. horses carring knights etc. it was class and to see the interaction between the users and the streets was facinating. i will try and find the name of it for u. the little town came alive. we got to see most of the architecture of it because as i said it was a kinda play that brought u around different churches culminating in a finish in the main square. how even ther large churches interacted with the people and the smaller houses.
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Postby garethace » Wed Jan 21, 2004 6:38 pm

Yeah, I really like the connection between medieval war fare, movement of troops etc and Beaux Arts architectural master plans, which was so great an influence on Louis Kahn.

Kahn is one of these very problematic, poetic kind of guys to get into - so most people just do a very large detour.

But my biggest problem with architectural ideas and the way they can be presented in education etc - is that poetic ideas, do not necessarily have to be understood in poetic ways - you can always use some kind of lever to 'get you into the groove first', and then just embellish it as much as you like then.

I like the notion of medieval total war game - because it presents in a very no-bs fashion - an idea about space and architectural design I have grappled with for a while.

That small tiny individual people, negotiate the environment around them, on foot, through both space and time - that give the necessary time, energy levels and direction - you can move people around quite a lot.

I am thinking about books by Edmund Bacon here, who tried to deal with Medieval urban planning etc. But the problem is, that when most students hear about 'Medieval urban planning' they go 'what a bore'.

Fin has illuminated the topic quite well too.

I mean, take this argument that architects constantly use - that cities are designed by vehicular traffic engineers - it just begs the question of 'where were the pedestrian traffic engineers'.

Hiding behind a bush, I have no doubt.
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