Talbot Street, Dublin

Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby igy » Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:31 pm

Why is (at the least) facade retention never considered for these?
I'm no architect, but surely retaining the facade at the street, then having higher (presumably glass) floors recessed is preferable to complete demolition of the existing buildings?
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby lostexpectation » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:16 pm

was sustainability an issue?
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:39 pm

Well re-use of existing buildings is a core principle of sustainable development.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby notjim » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:52 pm

The new development by the railway viaduct on Talbot St is nearly ready, is create a short new st going north and a small plaza under the railway:

<img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=85", width=230> <img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=86", width=230>
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby PVC King » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:28 pm

notjim wrote:The new development by the railway viaduct on Talbot St is nearly ready, is create a short new st going north and a small plaza under the railway:

<img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=85", width=230> <img src="http://www.archiseek.com/content/picture.php?albumid=10&pictureid=86", width=230>


Good to see a new street going in here; I've always found the area behind very forbidding so opening it up may just integrate the street behind that little bit more. With the amount of hotels and guest houses down here if a street grain similar to Temple Bar were to be created there is no reason why this couldn't become a budget version of Temple Bar for tourists reliveing Temple Bar of the weekend overcrowding it suffers from.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Sarsfield » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:54 pm

The park on Foley St, at the end of the new Street, is closed for refurbishment. This really has the potential to be a lovely area. It already has a nice mix of activity, from apartments, hotels & hostels, offices, the DCC Gallery & Dance Ireland HQ (everywhere needs a few artsy types) on Foley St. and quite a number of nice independent cafe's & restaurants. Not to mention the proximity of Connolly Station & Busaras delivering thousands to the area daily. Sadly, as with much of the North Inner City, the number of strung out junkies hanging around the area really spoils it. If that issue can be overcome it has a lot of potential.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby johnglas » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:37 pm

sarsfield: it doesn't help to call anyone 'strung out junkies' - it's a fact of modern life. We either decriminalise drugs and treat it as a medical and social problem, or actually try and rehabilitate addicts instead of feeding them methadone so we can all just sweep it under the carpet. Why are the visible addicts in the North Inner City and not Ballsbridge? Discuss.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Sarsfield » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:15 pm

johnglas wrote:sarsfield: it doesn't help to call anyone 'strung out junkies' - it's a fact of modern life.


But they ARE strung out junkies. The solution may be up for discussion but the issue isn't.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby johnglas » Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:21 pm

Your language is; they are people and it is sometimes well to remember that. Much of our current ills have been caused by money-grabbing, 'there is no such thing as society' capitalists; does it achieve anything by calling them 'parasites' who have ended up not being 'junkies' in the inner city?
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby ctesiphon » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:27 pm

johnglas wrote:Why are the visible addicts in the North Inner City and not Ballsbridge?


Have you been to Roly's lately? And that's just the 'visible' ones. Not to mention Mother's Little Helper, alive and well in the farmhouse chic kitchens of D4 still, johnglas, make no mistake.

As to your question- they're in the north inner city because that's where the clinics are. They're around Baggot Street too, because there's a clinic there- and that's D4.

There are myriad points that one could proffer in this debate, but none of them have anything to do with architecture or planning, so the conversation properly belongs elsewhere. However, the fact remains that many people don't feel comfortable walking the north inner city - in the last month I've seen defecation, oral sex, violence, vandalism and theft within a five minute walk of O'Conell Street - and I think that's the point Sarsfield was trying to make. You might be right about his language, but so what? I'd argue that the point remains valid.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby johnglas » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:09 pm

Of course it does and I agree with your general point, but language is important and badmouthing any group in society just dehumanises them (and excuses 'drastic' solutions). Of course no-one is comfortable with some of the street denizens you mention, but I thought there was a view about 'designing out' what is thought to be undesirable. My point is we all should be careful about language (without being afraid to say what we think) and in imagining that social problems are always 'somewhere else' or belong to some 'other' group in society.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby BTH » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:25 pm

Johnglas, not to be argumentative and I admire your social conscience and all the rest but really, what is the politically correct term we could use for the unfortunate citizens in question? I can see when you'd describe them as "addicts" or "users" or whatever but in this case the area in question has a lot of in-yer-face, obnoxious and intimidating people who are "on something" hanging around. I'd be tempted to call them a lot worse then "strung out junkies"!

Bact to the subject - the little street that's been created looks pretty good, nothing too exciting just tidy and elegant. It's unfortunate that the buildings shown earlier in the thread were knocked to make way for it though. Worse is the way that the newly exposed pillars of the railway bridge have been treated - simply boxed in and roughly rendered. They look shockingly bad beside the cast iron original pillars.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:30 pm

Yes; that is the big negative in an otherwise appealing development, it would have killed them to make the new pillars match the old?
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Sarsfield » Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:57 pm

johnglas wrote:Your language is; they are people and it is sometimes well to remember that.


Apologies. I'll refer to them as the pharmaceutially challenged in future :rolleyes:

And seriously, I wasn't being disparaging. I'm curious what you think I should call them.

On topic, I don't like the way the new building joins with the older stuff on the Amiens St. site. The styles/colours/finishes clash badly.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby notjim » Mon Aug 18, 2008 8:18 pm

I thought this would be more of a problem than it is; since it meets the old buildings but doesn't follow the building line and is penetrated by the viaduct, it seems to me to work quite well visually, the parapet line matches but the material doesn't.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby paul h » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:45 pm

I really like Talbot st. Its a bit gritty , rough around the edges, and a nice little ethnic mix to liven it up for me

As for the junkies - bit like the pigeons , filthy creatures (for the most part) but you tolerate them as being a part of European street life.

Hmmm but then again i've yet to see a group of pigeons surround a petit asian girl scared out of her wits at 8am trying to make her way to work* in the pissing rain and demand money

*whose taxes help fund the jobless bums
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby GrahamH » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:38 pm

Some pictures of the new development - to be titled 'Joyce's Walk'. The entrance buildings are yet more identikit offsprings of Dunnes of Henry Street™, but in a slightly more palatable context methinks...

Image


Simple and elegant nonetheless. The brick further down has a more pleasant quality. The new street is more of a passageway really. Some more tree planting wouldn't go amiss, and the pavement could be wider.

Image


As BTH and notjim have mentioned, the treatment of the previously concealed bridge piers has been horrific. Left as they are they're just plain ugly, and if to be painted (likely) they're crying out to be graffitied. Really, such appalling treatment of the public domain. I cannot believe this, the most obvious element of the entire project to get right, has been so clumsily butchered. It pulls down the entire street. Some simple yellow brick cladding is all that was required as even a basic solution, matching that of the elevations further down the street.

Image


The new shopfront fronting Talbot Street is elegant.

Image


Which is more than can be said of those of Billy and his friend - what ridiculously scaled and detailed concoctions.

Image

Was Planning so bowled over by the generous concept of a new thoroughfare that they just waved through all these details? Nonetheless the upper facades look very well, but their new faux Georgian makeover is dubious and poorly considered. For a start surely these buildings had plate glass sashes originally? (before the 70s aluminium went in). Equally the new glazing bars are too thin relative to the chunky sash frames, while the lovely deep orange of these machine-made Victorian bricks has been replaced with a pink colourwash more suited to dodgy Georgian townhouse restorations in the Midlands. Personally I find this a growing problem with Victorian brick - it's one thing to clean it, but to colourwash it and thus lose its original character is not on. Going by their appearance you could now date these buildings more accurately to 1997 than 1887.


There are however some other decent jobs going on on Talbot Street. If ever there was an example of the transformation that can be effected on a city just by getting modest facades and fenestration right, this is it. It really cannot be said enough.

Image

Beautiful job (whatever of the old shopfront). And the ever-increasing scourge of cumbersome double-glazed sashes has been resisted here. In fact I'd say this is now a rarity relative to the popularity of factory-churned clunky tmber sashes flooding the market now.

What a difference. And look at the elegant simplicity of the lightly cleaned orangey brick.

Image


Another recent decent job further down - the colour's a tad dodgy, but passable.

Image


And again the retention of original sashes (if not quite a restoration of them).

Image


Great to see good solid improving jobs like these on a secondary street like Talbot Street.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:55 am

GrahamH wrote:Some pictures of the new development - to be titled 'Joyce's Walk'.
Jaysus the imagination would bowl you over. (The major Joyce connection around here that causes this and another street to be named after him is that the former 'Nighttown' off Talbot Street is mentioned in Ullyses.)

The official name for the street which is now universally known as the Italian Quarter is the stunningly inspired and poetic "Millenium Walkway".
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby notjim » Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:15 pm

Of course, the correct thing is to call it Corporation Walk.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:12 pm

Guineys look to demolish their store


Guineys looks to build new city store
City News Home
Herald.ie

By Cormac Murphy

Monday November 17 2008

FAMOUS Dublin retailers Guineys are seeking a drastic makeover for their city centre store.

The clothes and homewear specialists are seeking to demolish their four-storey premises on Talbot Street in Dublin 1. They want to replace it with a seven-storey building with a new-look Guineys store and offices.

The owners have applied for planning permission to Dublin City Council for the development at 79/80 Talbot Street, which backs on to Beresford Lane.

Recession

If approval is granted, the 3,039sqm scheme will have retail in the basement, ground and first floors. It will have offices on the second to sixth floor.

The scheme provides for three new pedestrian entry points off Talbot Street, as well as a new access point off Beresford lane.

Guineys has always been associated with good value and it is one business which could see an upturn in fortunes through the recession.

Michael Guineys opened its doors for business in April 1971, at 93 Talbot Street.

Within months, a second shop was opened in Parliament Street. In the second store, the retailers entered into a new area of business, namely carpets and furniture.

A further store was opened in October 1973, this time on Thomas Street.

In 1977, the Thomas Street and Parliament Street stores were closed down and an outlet on North Earl Street was opened.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:57 pm

Here was that proposal ..... a lesson in maintaining the scale of the streetscape. It's been refused - 5101/08

Image


Image
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Rory W » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:48 pm

Jesus what a shocker - rightly refused imo
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby fergalr » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:57 pm

Oh look! Set back glass top stories! What an innovative idea...
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby George_Kaplan » Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:16 pm

Where abouts was that Mal Mart on Talbot St? I took a photo of it about 10 years ago, and spent a few very entertaining minutes walking around inside, but can't remember where exactly it was. Is it where Supervalue is now?

As for Guiney's: why didn't they just submit a realistic planning application in the first place... instead of chancing their arm and wasting everybody's time. While they're at it, they should give the next-door telephone exchange (on the corner of Gardiner St) a good lick of paint.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:49 pm

The refusal of the Guineys building has been appealed, lol! - http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/232655.htm


Edit: Actually just noticed on the ABP page that the application was withdrawn .. so the appeal falls too.
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