Talbot Street, Dublin

Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:00 am

What has come over Dublin City Council?? Planning application at North Star Hotel opposite Connolly Stn. for 8-storey new hotel building on current surface parking area to rear of hotel. In decision to grant permission newly out, they lobbed three storeys off (Ref. 3931/09).

Also whacked three floors off recent 10-storey proposal for M&S Mary Street loading bay area - 2121/09 (eventually got refused on appeal)

But WTF? They just rubber-stamped every ridiculous proposal that came into them during Celtic Tiger. Such changes like these were unheard of ....... maybe they're finally sick of seeing their decisions savaged on appeal ....
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby thebig C » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:53 am

Devin wrote:What has come over Dublin City Council?? Planning application at North Star Hotel opposite Connolly Stn. for 8-storey new hotel building on current surface parking area to rear of hotel. In decision to grant permission newly out, they lobbed three storeys off (Ref. 3931/09).

Also whacked three floors off recent 10-storey proposal for M&S Mary Street loading bay area - 2121/09 (eventually got refused on appeal)

But WTF? They just rubber-stamped every ridiculous proposal that came into them during Celtic Tiger. Such changes like these were unheard of ....... maybe they're finally sick of seeing their decisions savaged on appeal ....


Devin, its the same old rubbish they always engage in. Lopping off floors plays well with the typically conservative Irish person/voter who generally don't like anything different or daring. DCC have been doing this for years.

Naturally, its lost on councilors, council pen pushers and alot of the public that effectively cutting buildings in half destroys any architectural integrity they have. Either approve or reject them in entireity rather then trying to fit a 10 storey square peg into a 5 storey round hole!!
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby wearnicehats » Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:47 pm

thebig C wrote:Devin, its the same old rubbish they always engage in. Lopping off floors plays well with the typically conservative Irish person/voter who generally don't like anything different or daring. DCC have been doing this for years.

Naturally, its lost on councilors, council pen pushers and alot of the public that effectively cutting buildings in half destroys any architectural integrity they have. Either approve or reject them in entireity rather then trying to fit a 10 storey square peg into a 5 storey round hole!!


what exactly is the point in the consultation process? If DCC advised this developer that 5 floors would be the likely max then the developer's a fool for lodging 8. If they didn't, however, then DCC have led them up an ultimately very expensive path. To lose one floor may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose 3 looks like carelessness (he paraphrased Earnestly)
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby PVC King » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:50 pm

Devin wrote:What has come over Dublin City Council?? Planning application at North Star Hotel opposite Connolly Stn. for 8-storey new hotel building on current surface parking area to rear of hotel. In decision to grant permission newly out, they lobbed three storeys off (Ref. 3931/09).

Also whacked three floors off recent 10-storey proposal for M&S Mary Street loading bay area - 2121/09 (eventually got refused on appeal)

But WTF? They just rubber-stamped every ridiculous proposal that came into them during Celtic Tiger. Such changes like these were unheard of ....... maybe they're finally sick of seeing their decisions savaged on appeal ....


Ciaran Cuffe often spoke of this scenario as being the worst of both Worlds as the developer has their development numbers savaged and the City gets lumbered with a building that is out of scale i.e. possibly attractive at 10 but not designed to be in proportion at 7.

I am of the opinion that the system needs to change to one where the planning fees are not forfeited when a building consent is refused but that similarly to F.I. requests that the design team be afforded an opportunity to re-submit within the parameters of the building lines that would be acceptable.

However why go to refusal in the first instance?

To stop developers doing a graduated reduction and clogging the system I see a great merit in all applications for over 5 storeys having to procure via a council nominated source a montage from selected angles in advance of the initial application to set the boundaries. Given the scale of planning fees is it too much to ask that pre planning consultation phase move from a lottery based on sketches and often only a short meeting to a valuable source of guidance to developers before they pay for detailed designs which may take multiple meetings. I can appreciate that Devin is no fan of looking at a very wasteful multi-application game being played out either; in the current climate it makes perfect sense for developers to have access to planners in minuted meetings (on the record/subsequent application) once they pay hourly rates that reflect the costs of the planners involved.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby fergalr » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:14 am

George_Kaplan wrote: they should give the next-door telephone exchange (on the corner of Gardiner St) a good lick of paint.


Careful what you wish for. It's now lovely custard yellow colour.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:50 am

Only partially of course... the upper floors still have their attractively peeling bright blue
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby Devin » Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:59 pm

thebig C wrote:its the same old rubbish they always engage in. Lopping off floors ......... DCC have been doing this for years.
Em, helllleau, where have you been for the last five years? .. not in Dublin, I take it. Modifying development went off DCC's radar sometime back in 2004. Make hay while the sun shines was it. If you can think of a major scheme DCC truncated / curtailed / redesigned since then, please let me know. Scenario almost without exception went as follows: applicant comes in with ridiculous OTT overdense proposal in spirit of the times→ DCC does dance with rubber stamp→scheme gets hammered on appeal.
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Re: Talbot Street, Dublin

Postby thebig C » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:19 pm

Devin wrote:Em, helllleau, where have you been for the last five years? .. not in Dublin, I take it. Modifying development went off DCC's radar sometime back in 2004. Make hay while the sun shines was it. If you can think of a major scheme DCC truncated / curtailed / redesigned since then, please let me know. Scenario almost without exception went as follows: applicant comes in with ridiculous OTT overdense proposal in spirit of the times→ DCC does dance with rubber stamp→scheme gets hammered on appeal.


Helleau yourself!:) DCC might have been on a hiatus for a few years but from the 1960s-2000s, they lopped floors off pretty much every development.

In the spirit of the Celtic Tiger they began to rubber-stamp, but, now that everybody is anti-developer they are simply reverting to type to vainly show that they are being tough!
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