Tall Buildings in Dublin

Tall Buildings in Dublin

Postby delta_jacob » Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:15 pm

Apart from the U2 Tower, there has not been much discussion of tall buildings here of late....I know many of you here are not skyscraper fans so perhaps thats why, but i have a few questions for buildings which are planned for Dublin, so if anyone can answer them it would be appreciated.

1) Is the redevelopment of Tara St. Station going to go ahead and if so when will it begin?

2) Does anyone have any info/ photos of the designs of the 60m tower planned for Tallaght, the 19 storey in Ballymun and the 40m currently u/c in Smithfield?

3) Has there been any developments re: the approved 90m Tower on Sir John Rogersons Quay?

4) What height is the tallest building in the revised plancs for Spencer Dock going to be? When is work due to begin on Spencer Dock? (There seems to be some activity there at the moment)

and in general, does anyone have any idea how many 40m+ buildings there are in Dublin (including Ballymun + all suburbs)?
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Postby Andrew Duffy » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:21 pm

I'm not so much a skyscraper fan as an admirer. Anyway:

1) Yes, the station will be redeveloped. It is unlikely that Irish Rail will design another building.

2) Irish architects don't publish drawings very often:
19 Storey in Ballymun - Pierse Contracting, this has permission

Tallaght - Is this Shelbourne Development's Belgard Square? If so, it was granted permission and an appeal against it was lodged. It's only 13 residential stories, so it's probably only about 45m tall

Smithfield - Because of much trouble over the height of the tower in this development (Developers Fusano proposed a 23 storey building), the architects have no rendering of the approved 13 storey tower. http://www.hkr.ie/smithfield_page1.htm

3) John Rogerson's Quay. This is a 20 storey, 96m tall office buildin with full approval. However, developers Dunloe Ewart sacked chairman Noel Smyth, who championed this building. That, combined with weak office rentals, may kill it.

4) Only some apartment buildings have been designed for Spencer Dock. The area plan allows for a 60m (revised from 100m) building near the Point, several buildings up to 44m around "Station Square" and a building of up to 44m on the National Conference Centre site.

Dublin's midrise buildings, numbers of stories and structural heights:

Liberty Hall, 17, 59.4m
One George's Quay Plaza, 14, ~58.5m
Millennium Tower, 17, unknown
Central Bank, 9, 45.4m
O' Connell Bridge House, 12, 44.2m
Pearse Tower, 16, 41.5m
Connolly Tower, 16, 41.5m
Clarke Tower, 16, 41.5m
MacDonagh Tower, 16, 41.5m
McDermott Tower, 16, 41.5m
Plunkett Tower, 16, 41.5m
Ceannt Tower, 16, 41.5m
Hawkins House, 13, 41.5m
Civic Office, 10, unknown
K Building, 11, unknown
Guinness Storehouse, ~42m
Irish Life Centre, 10, 38.5m
Nurse's Quarters, St. Vincents, 13, unknown (demolished)
Ardoyne House, 12, unknown
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Postby Blain » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:29 pm

I heard the Tara Street building is supposed to start around this time next year. Don't know what the reason for the delay is, possibly to do with financing or something, but as of now its still going ahead.

By the way, I probably could be called a fan of skyscrapers, I think Dublin and Ireland in general could do with a few of them, provided they're well-designed of course.
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Postby delta_jacob » Wed Sep 17, 2003 2:48 pm

Thanks, you've been very informative.

It's a pity that there is such a flurry of opposition everytime a tall building is proposed for Dublin, althoght i do understand the reasons why so many people have reservations about them. I'm hoping that if the u2 tower goes ahead succesfully then it will perhaps kickstart some action on tall buildings, and rejuvinate that area of the city, although the fact that it is meant as a landmark building could cause the opposite effect.
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:17 pm

The notion of tall in Dublin is an insult - it's more and more proposed to put something "tall" in as a nice landmark - slender and with little or no sq ft-age (example U2 building) - rather than addressing the original idea behind high rise - more economical use of land. Which of course we fail miserably at here in Ireland. We give out about bungalow blight and the unchecked sprawl of suburbia - but we don't seem to do anything about it. And the "high rise doesn't equal high density" argument just doesn't work. I cannot accept a five story building with the same ground foot print as a nine story building has the same density.
But then again - as recently pointed out by Minsiter Brennan - we are a country of 1.5 million cars, but only 1.2 million homes.

Spencer Dock and the Southern docklands were the last realistic hope of addressing this issue but as anyone who looks at Spencer Docks plan, or strolls down Grand Canal Basin - all an utter waste on bland 5+1 super super over priced apartments currently under construction, that will effectively render that area as dull and squashed as the IFSC is at present.
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Postby GrahamH » Wed Sep 17, 2003 9:53 pm

The amount of different figures I've heard for the height of George's Quay, 'oh it's taller than Liberty Hall' 'my brother works there he knows' 'my uncle was contractor, I think he'd know somehow' etc blah blah

I'm glad to see you have the correct figure Andrew!
I had the privilige to view Georges Quay from Liberty Hall, sure you have to look down on it for goodness sake!
Oh how I enjoyed rubbng it in afterwards...
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Postby Andrew Duffy » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:55 am

I'm not sure about the height of Liberty Hall; it's normally given as 59.4m but I think that's from ground to the top of the frilly bit. The above sea level height of 63.4m may include the service shack on top, since the aviation authority need to know the full height rather than structural height.

Incidentally, Tara St will be 63.3m above sea level (lower than Liberty Hall) and 60.8m above ground, implying a ground level of 2.5m. If the ground level at the George's Quay offices is the same, since they are 62.675m above sea level, the above ground height is 60.175m. My guess of 58.5m is based upon what I can see with my eyes.
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Postby GrahamH » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:50 pm

The most often quoted for Liberty Hall is 196 feet - which equates to your 59.4m - whatever it includes...
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Postby aoife c » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:30 pm

I'm a planning student and have been researching doing my final year dissertation on tall buildings in Dublin - in relation to the concept of building up rather than building out in order to combact urban sprawl.
Would really appreciate any comments/ideas that you might have on the subject
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Postby GrahamH » Fri Sep 19, 2003 7:04 pm

There are acres of comment on this in previous threads if you delve back a bit.
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Postby trace » Fri Sep 19, 2003 10:22 pm

It's not an either or of building up or building out, aoife c. But you should ask James Pike of O'Mahony Pike for an interview if you are serious about your thesis. He's very approachable and few people know more about the implications of tall buldings in Dublin.
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Postby aoife c » Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:37 pm

realise it's not an either/or situation, just believe at certain locations well-designed tall buildings are feasible alternatives - variety is apparently the spice of life after all!

Cheers for ur help
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