Convention centre

[SeamusOG]

It's interesting to see that Irish Rail are still involved down there. That might help to explain their keenness for routing the proposed "interconnector" through the location.

I wonder just how closely they've looked at route options which do not go through Spencer Dock.

I recall there was a proposed underground route between Connolly and Heuston in the mid 70's. We haven't heard much about that in recent years. Irish Rail's continued involvement in Spencer Dock might help to explain that.

[dean]

The site is not 81 acres which would represent almost 33 hectares. That is the size of the entire Spencer Dock site. This convention centre design appears too small for a major convention. The design is multi story which is poor for a convention centre. I wish the Point Depot site was chosen.

[Peter Fitz]

IE maintain that Connolly does not have the capacity for the additional traffic the interconnector would bring & so are routing it through Spencer Dock which given the expansion of the city to the east & now the go ahead for the conference centre seems like an ok decision to me...

[SeamusOG]

IE maintain that Connolly does not have the capacity for the additional traffic the interconnector would bring & so are routing it through Spencer Dock which given the expansion of the city to the east & now the go ahead for the conference centre seems like an ok decision to me...

Connolly in its current guise, with only overground services possible, would not enable the capacity increase which the interconnector would bring. IE are correct about that.

But they originally proposed an underground line which would have gone under Amiens Street, through Temple Bar and on to Heuston. This was proposed in the 1970's, so with improved tunnelling techniques such a line should be a doddle in the modern day. That could connect rather nicely with the LUAS link-up/the Metro somewhere around Westmoreland Street. And given that the proposed tunnel is, apparently to be built to accomodate 12-carriage trains, a connection with Tara Street should also be very feasible.

It's true that there is a certain amount of development going on in the east of the city. But the current centre of the city is already developed, and is always going to be a more popular destination than Spencer Dock or the area around it. Yet the proposed route will make this area more difficult to get to, for people who can currently travel on the northern DART line to Tara Street.

The solution, as far as I can see, is to build the line along the originally proposed route. That way:

1) you bring people directly to Connolly, and those who wish to go to Spencer Dock change onto the LUAS. I suggest that this would suit more people than the proposal that the line gets built to Spencer Dock and those who wish to go to the area around Connolly have to change onto the LUAS. The relative popularity of the two locations should become clear once the red line is extended to the Point. And apparently, because of the gradients involved in going under the river close to Spencer Dock, it looks like there will be a not inconsiderable walk to get from train to tram at the location, making it quite difficult to get to Connolly. On the other hand, this need not be the case at Connolly, as the underground station could be below the level of the river some considerable distance before even arriving at Connolly, so changing to get to Spencer Dock (or Abbey/O'Connell Street) should be quite easy.

2) Tara Street is currently a busier station than Pearse Station, indicating greater popularity. By building the line along the originally proposed route, people could go directly to Tara Street, as they currently can (though they would be doing so underground). That way, you bring people to Tara Street and those who wish to travel to Pearse would change. This is a better arrangement than one where people who wish to get to Tara Street would have to change at Pearse.

3) I believe that the link-up will show that the LUAS stations in and around Westmoreland Street will be more popular (i.e. greater passenger numbers getting on or off) than the station at St. Stephen's Green. If the line were built as originally proposed, this could be catered for by bringing people directly to the Westmoreland Street area, and those who wish to go to St. Stephen's Green would change. In my opinion, this would be better than the currently proposed arrangement where the line goes to St. Stephen's Green and people who want to go to the Westmoreland Street area would have to change.

The originally proposed line would be some distance shorter than the current proposal, so you'd expect that it would be cheaper to build. And it looks to me like it would suit more people - though perhaps not Treasury Holdings. I'm interested to see than IE still have an interest in Spencer Dock - I thought they had sold the whole site to Treasury. But it might help explain why they ditched the original plan.

[GrahamH]

31/8/2007

Maybe this thread is more suited to the Convention Centre, given there's quite a bit of venting on it...

Can't say I've ever been a fan myself of it, and I suspect the interiors especially are going to require - or have already undergone - substantial modification from the near decade-old plan.

I managed to attend the bells-and-whistles launch of the NCC a number of weeks ago, and certainly the consortium who won the operating contract are very experienced internationally, the Birmingham ICC just one of their sites (albeit the smaller one), so it ought not to be National Aquatic Centre Round II.

The building is divided up as:

Basement: Parking and ancillary services.

Ground Floor: The Forum - the largest on-the-level exhibition space, with 3000 theatre or 2000 banqueting capacities. There's also a vast entrance lobby here. Indeed all the floors have atrium frontage.

First Floor: The Liffey Suite - also on-the-level, this can accommodate 1800 theatre or 1100 banqueting, and also has 11 large meeting rooms and 4 boardrooms, with mezzanine.

Second Floor: The Auditorium - this is three storeys high at the very top of the building, and holds 2000 in raked theatre seating as seen here.




The whole complex is highly flexible as is to be expected, and seems to be very well adapted to creating different atmospheres too. For evening conferences the exhibition halls on the lower floors can be transformed for dining, with access to raking night-time views of the Liffey when taking a breather from the event.

However the enormous atrium appears to be little more than a Tribute to the Slab, i.e. the Jervis Centre on steriods, with vast expanses of crisp plasterboard adorning every conceivable surface, which looks decidely unimaginative. Hopefully the video renderings are just vague impressions, with lots of tweaking to be done - but thus far it's certainly not a breathtaking interior. Perhaps the view from the balconies is the main focus of attention.

Some views of the model.






Directly attached to the rear of the centre - as seen above and below - is a proposed hotel, the operator yet to be confirmed. The proposed twisty bridge will adjoin it, running over the canal.










Some of this doesn't seem that accurate - things have changed a little since the model was comissioned in 1947.




Incidentally, on that day I encountered two very well-known journalists - who shall remain nameless - who approached the model after sitting through the video promo, full-on explanation and presentation, and laden with enough glossy literature to line the walls of the said centre, neither with so much as a bull's clue as to where the place was, what it was to house, who designed it, or indeed even the chequered saga of the whole proposal. Indeed the NCC rep there didn't seem to know very much either, and it ended up with myself and another chap explaining the scheme to them. Thought it summed up quite neatly the commitment to the built environment in the Irish media. The abiding memory of the day is: "oh - so this is the Liffey then?"

*points*

[ake]

Surely they don't really mean to build that facade? Ludicrous! Look at all that plain stone face.

[notjim]

31/8/2007
Incidentally, on that day I encountered two very well-known journalists - who shall remain nameless - who approached the model after sitting through the video promo, full-on explanation and presentation, and laden with enough glossy literature to line the walls of the said centre, neither with so much as a bull's clue as to where the place was, what it was to house, who designed it, or indeed even the chequered saga of the whole proposal. Indeed the NCC rep there didn't seem to know very much either, and it ended up with myself and another chap explaining the scheme to them. Thought it summed up quite neatly the commitment to the built environment in the Irish media. The abiding memory of the day is: "oh - so this is the Liffey then?"

*points*

Off topic but in a similar vein, they had the times journalist who wrote about the nesbitt take over of arnotts on morning ireland last week, he went on about the size and scope of the northern quarter development and Aine asked him, well where is this northern quarter located then: between henry street and parnell street, something like that, oh i amn't reallty sure, he replied!

[Morlan]

Tnx for the shots Graham,

I'm not a fan of the bland-brick facade either, but It will blend in perfectly with the Docklands!

[PTB]

Is the rest of that model designed by Roche?

I dont like the facade either. It just looks like a cylinder pushed through a block. Certainly won't rival the four courts or the Custom house.

[Rory W]

At least the side facing the linear park has some relief on it now - originally was one big red blank facade (which looked awful)

[GregF]

The back view of the Convention Centre looks a bit kinda Art Nouveau-esqe/ Art Deco-esque...particularly hat middle bit with the curvy glass atrium-like feature. There is no need for all those trees planted at the front of it either. Kinda hides the lower view, the 'National Convention Centre' name and the street access part.

Are they actually building this at the mo or are they still talking about it? I haven't been down the docks in ages. The last time I took a ramble I nearly cried at the newly built uniform stumpy dross.

[notjim]

I like the back, it reminds me of that ballet place in the lincoln center in NYc, one of my favourite buildings. They are building it now, the big hole has certainly been dug.

[cubix]

I hear this project is well underway.Anybody got construction pics...looks pretty good

[Morlan]

I more looking forward to the bridge tbh.

[notjim]

cubix: basically they have dug the big hole and have built two concrete cores, corresponding to each side of the cylinder, to about ten story height.

[archipig]

Reminds me of Beaujolais nouveau - awful when it comes out and justs gets worse as time passes.

[shamrockmetro]

looks like a keg of guinness that is about to fall over...

can they think of something better?

[shweeney]

convention centre progress:

[ake]

Have they detailed what stone the large plain brick areas will be of? Granite, limestone? It really had better be something very suitable and attractive. Definitely not calp!

[cgcsb]

although this building will be near the height of liberty hall, it hasn't received recognition as a high rise, perhaps because it's a bit on the bulky side. Are the lift shafts finished yet? is the main structure starting to go up? does anyone have some more recent photos?

[Peter Fitz]

although this building will be near the height of liberty hall, it hasn't received recognition as a high rise, perhaps because it's a bit on the bulky side.

I assume this model is to scale ...



in which case it is nothing like the height of liberty hall when compared to the sleep inducing PWC building next door. Just as well, it would be something of a monster given its profile.

[ihateawake]

although this building will be near the height of liberty hall, it hasn't received recognition as a high rise, perhaps because it's a bit on the bulky side.

Its 40m approx(to the cylinder top I believe), same as O'Connell bridge house

[seanny]

The main liftshafts are inside those 2 concrete cores that have gone up at the front of the site. The steel frame at the front has started going up too, you can see it between the 2 cores. Also it's just over 40m to the top of those concrete cores...the high point on the drum is higher than those again, I believe.

[CC105]

I believe it is to be over 50m when completed, proof again that liberty hall is no highrise building and should not be a benchmark to use.

[cgcsb]

Liberty Hall is only 59 meters tall, that's kinda close to 50 meters