Roches Stores, Henry Street, Dublin

Postby StephenC » Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:10 pm

and all the street furniture is starting to look old and tatty. I think its got alot to do with the facades of buildings as well. There doesn't seem to be any guidelines to introduce uniformity to the street
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Postby notjim » Fri Jun 27, 2003 6:11 pm

you have to admit though, the "cum on the streets" flag is hilarious.
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Postby GrahamH » Sat Jun 28, 2003 12:34 am

Henry St is never appriciated for being one of the finest streets in Dublin architecturally, it really is stunning over ground level, esp standing outside Arnotts looking towards the Spire, the buildings lining this part are so beautiful and form what is really the only unified commercial terrace in Dublin, lots of red brick, terracotta, Dutch Billy features, sandstone mullions etc, all assembled by the late Victorians & Edwardians.

Its a pity that the middle part of the st is so poor, indeed you have to walk pass all these eyesores get to 'the good stuff' again, in the form of Jervis and it's bumbling collection of 'brick and sashed' properties, and of course the exquisite and equally unappriciated Penneys building (I know it has a proper name, can't remember!)
Penneys at last have applied for permission to replace its tatty 80s shopfront with cut stone that will not detract from the building, and no historic elements will be removed.
Work is already underway.

I agree Stephen that a lot of the furniture is very tatty, largely caused by those bloody stickers that are put up by protesters and campaginers that are never removed, or are peeled at, leaving sticky residues behind.
Why is'nt this banned in the city, so much of our street furniture and lamposts have been destroyed by them, whats going to happen to the acres of stainless steel going onto O' Connell St?
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Postby bigjoe » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:52 pm

was standing at the corner of liffey street looking at the new RS facade. could not think of what it reminded of. the security man from the jewelers came over and give me his opinion for some reason. he did not like it in no uncertain terms.

anyway, then it struck me. it looks like the side of one on those hugh ocean going cruise liners.
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Postby dc3 » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:06 pm

If I recall correctly the very first escalator in Ireland was installed in Roches Stores in Henry Street. Early 1960's.

Not a lot of people know that!
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:17 pm

You could be right - there was one very ancient set of escalators in the centre of the store - very narrow
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Postby d_d_dallas » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:24 pm

On the Zara front - the initial plan was to locate in the Grafton St area... but property prices in Dublin had caused them to reach for the smelling salts. So (cheaper) Henry St was chosen - but I think Roches has since fallen out with them (premature announcements were made before deals were closed etc etc). Anyway where is this all leading??? The latest is that thy're going to locate in the Bank Of Ireland on suffolk st assumming change of use permission goes ahead via DCC. So maybe - just maybe they'll reach Dublin soon! They are going into Owen O'Callaghans rather large Mahon Point development in Cork alright though.

Everybody on the train...
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Postby StephenC » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:23 am

Do you think the new building will look like M&S in a few years time once it has weather and gone out of fashion. Personally I think it does nothing for the street and is completely out of context to the surrounding buildings. Maybe the revamped ILAC and Dunnes Stores buildings will improve it.
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Postby redeoin » Wed Jul 09, 2003 11:38 am

I agree that Henry St is actually not a bad street, especially when it is quietish, and the upper levels of buildings are lovely.

However there are five problems:

1. Ilac Centre : soon to be fixed

2. Liffey St: for such a small street, it could be and should be a gem. I would add trees to it to compensate for the lack of colour on Henry St.

3. Mary St: Investment is slowly creeping down the street. Hopefully when the draft masterplan for the fruit markets kicks in it will really begin to get a facelift as the main link st.

4. Moore St: Dependant on Carlton Ilac etc...

4. Talbot St: I hate that street so much. Every second building is either in ruins, or virtually a prefab. I would issue an architectural competition to select sixty different architects; they get a building on Talbot St each to reface, 15 million per building, and are told to impress the world!
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:50 am

Did Newenham Mulligan do the new large Dunnes Stores in Limerick as well? Seen it last week and its very very similar in materials and detailing...
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Postby GregF » Tue Aug 05, 2003 3:46 pm

That new frontage on Roches Stores looks as if it was somewhat influenced by the new National Gallery of Ireland extension.
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Postby StephenC » Tue Aug 05, 2003 4:37 pm

Don't they say 'imitation the highest form of flattery'
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Postby d_d_dallas » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:55 pm

Or we could just say "lack of imagination..."
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Postby GregF » Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:02 pm

...uncanny!
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:54 am

Current position....

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Postby GrahamH » Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

If you stand outside the Jervis Centre or M&S and face Roches, it looks like it has just arrived from outer space, a mammoth bulky cumbersome lump, dazzling white, crashing down onto Henry St - crushing all of the original streetscape on it's site.

Of course they're only trying to make it look better - badly - but there is no way on the face of this planet, not even the planet it came from, would such a structure get planning permission today.

Its intrusion onto the streetscape is barely concievible in it's arrogance, we so often pass it unheeding as it has so long been mere wallpaper, but this 'facelift', and seen from the west is makes it absolutely monstrous in scale.
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Postby Barry » Thu Aug 14, 2003 2:17 pm

C'mon Graham...if Benson & Forsythe had designed it half the architects in the country would probably be raving about its understated minimalism and brave juxstaposition of platonic planar forms...its obviously a bottom line budget driven attempt on improving the previous facade....(sans glazing which no doubt was a client directive) Out of interest....what would you have proposed
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Postby GrahamH » Fri Aug 15, 2003 8:11 pm

I don't mean the design, I'm talking about the scale of the building - as I say they're only trying to make the place look better which has to be welcomed, ie they're making the best out of a bad situation.
Nothing can take away from the massive scale of the structure, and the new white finish only serves to highlight it's size.

What would I propose?
Aside from razing it to the ground - if I even suggest the word window, there'll be a backlash of 'windows are soooooo over-rated' etc, so I'll stay quiet on the issue.
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Postby Barry » Mon Aug 18, 2003 2:14 pm

Its true!......windows ARE overrated...its a real pane...I think the profession should look into this...then upon reflection...maybe not...I'm just fenestrated with the whole idea. There's just no clear rationale. The whole idea of windows should be planar and simple really...ope you agree?
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Postby Andrew Duffy » Tue Aug 19, 2003 9:56 am

How about "LE Enterprise"?
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Postby sw101 » Fri Sep 26, 2003 12:38 pm

took a stroll down henry street last weekend, first time since june.

in my humble but anguish ridden opinion, the revised facade of roches stores is an absolute abomination. i cant begin to comprehend how awful its going to look in 2 years, not to mind 20. terrible standard of finish, staining, ugly patina forming, shoddy detailing and finishing. not pretty.

any opinions?

and garethace, please dont try and relate this to limerick in any way
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Postby GrahamH » Sat Sep 27, 2003 1:05 am

I saw it too yesterday - good God it's massive - moreso thanthe last time I saw it without that black yoke looming over the top like Independence Day.

It will indeed be hugely dated in a few years and the condition of the concrete will be far from pretty.

I've no idea why the glazing on the corners is not centred to highlight these entrances, it looks messy now.

I did'nt see staining and I don't know what a patina is so can't comment.

The building is disasterously large in scale, the earlier likening to the Stena HSS is perfectly fitting.
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Postby Paul Clerkin » Sat Sep 27, 2003 11:02 am

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
On the Zara front - the initial plan was to locate in the Grafton St area... but property prices in Dublin had caused them to reach for the smelling salts. So (cheaper) Henry St was chosen - but I think Roches has since fallen out with them (premature announcements were made before deals were closed etc etc).



I point my learned friend towards the media & advertising column of last weekend's Sunday Times

Zara to star in Roches opening

Roches Stores, the department store chain, plans to open the doors on its newly expanded flagship store in Dublin’s Henry Street on November 4. Costing about €50m, the redevelopment will expand its retailing capacity from 70,000 ft sq over three floors to 130,000 ft sq on five floors. As part of the redevelopment, Zara, the Spanish fashion retailer, will open a 20,000-ft-sq shop with frontage on to Henry Street. This will be Zara’s first outlet in the republic. Roches recently relocated its head office to Sandyford to make way for the extra shopping space and the store will include a number of new restaurants, cafes and ATM cash machines. Roches, which is family-owned, operates 11 stores around the country.


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-824215,00.html
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Postby sw101 » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:07 am

graham

i was there on a fairly miserable day and what i think i saw was mist settling and condensing, then running through cracks and washing out dust and construction crap, it looked pretty bad. i'm sure it just came off with rain but it just highlighted the panel size and lack of relation to the street.
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Postby GrahamH » Mon Sep 29, 2003 12:26 pm

The basic problem I have with the design is that it is horizontal in emphasis, made up of massive horizontal panels.

Henry St, like every other street, is made up of a terrace - which in turn is comprised of vertical buildings or units.

Roches blatently breaks the rules as it were, and hence just bullies its way onto the streetscape screaming 'look at me'.

If the panels were vertical, perhaps alternated with strips of vertical glass (windows) it would address the street so much better.

€50 million is a lot - to put it in context - the massive Arnotts extention, refitting and restoration cost approx €58 million.
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