place names

place names

Postby notjim » Thu May 29, 2003 2:35 pm

I am sorry if this seems a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone knew whether there are any surviving pre-celtic placenames in Ireland, or to what extent Irish language placenames reflect the pre-celtic languages. Where did Eire come from for example? Similarily, Dublin aside, are there any other Viking names.
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Postby Niall » Thu May 29, 2003 2:56 pm

Wicklow is an Anglisiation of Vikinlu, pronounced (veekilu) named after the Vikings (Viking Land) think Glendalough raids and the Norse settlement around Wicklow town. The Irish for Wicklow is Cill Mhantain

Wexford is also an Anglisation of a Norse/Danish word. The Irish is Loch Garman as is Waterford (vasser/Vater is Norse/Danish. Ford is also Danish, but not that spelling. The Irish is Port Lairge.

All were Viking settlements as was old Dublin.

If I can think of any more will post em!
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Postby GregF » Thu May 29, 2003 3:50 pm

Eire is a derived name of Eireann (coined by De Valera, for our new Republic, which was known as the Irish free State after we gained our Independance)......The name Eireann came from Eriu who was a Celtic goddess/queen and Erainn who were one of many Celtic tribes who came to inhabit this little island many eons ago.
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Postby bluefoam » Thu May 29, 2003 5:25 pm

Most of the names which we consider to be anglisised versions of the Irish name, are in fact viking/norman.
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Postby sfdonohue » Thu May 29, 2003 7:47 pm

i think the people who have replied have missed the point. If you are looking for mentions of pre-Gaelic placenames in Ireland Dr. Ian Adamson's book 'the Curthin' has a bit of detail on it. Can't recall names but I think the basic thesis is they are derived from P-celtic lanuguage rather than Q-Celitc Gaelic.
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Postby GregF » Fri May 30, 2003 9:57 am

Ian Adamson's book is used by the British Unionists as they see it as a 'justification' for their existance in Northern Ireland. Adamson himself is a Unionist.
Adamson claims that one of the 'original' tribes inhabiting Ireland particularly Ulster were a tribe known as the Criuthni....in Scotland they were known as Picts.....in Wales and England the Pretani....hence the word Britain which came from it. He claims they were one of the first peoples to inhabit Ireland coming across a landbridge from Scotland.
He claims the Cruithni (the people of the Stone Age in Ireland) were driven out of Ireland to the extremes of Scotland by the Gaels or Celts (who brought the advent of the Iron Age and Bronze Age in Ireland).
Some Northern British Unionists today claim that the conquering and plantations of Ireland of the 1600s and after by the Ulster Scots was an act of them rightfully retaking their land back.... hence you see the likes of the mural in Loyalist areas proclaiming 'Cuchulainn .....ancient defender of Ulster against Irish attacks ....2000 BC'.
However, all bonkers really how folklore, mythology and religion can get out of hand...for we here today in the rest and all of Ireland can be just as much part Cruithni, Gael/Celt, Norman, Viking, British or Irish as anyone else.....and placenames and surnames are the evidence.

It was probably the Cruithni that built Newgrange and the likes in Knowth and Dowth....great emblems of our Stone Age.

(the surname 'Rooney' is supposedly of Cruithni origins )

http://www.cruithni.org/

http://www.cruithni.fsnet.co.uk/cruithni.htm
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Postby GregF » Fri May 30, 2003 12:16 pm

See attached 2 images of stones from ancient times .....one in Greece; the Omphalos Stone.... and the other in Ireland; the Turoe Stone. The similarities are remakable.
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Postby GregF » Fri May 30, 2003 12:17 pm

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Postby Niall » Fri May 30, 2003 5:14 pm

Away with the fairies, what nonsense! The best one I ever heard was some nutter Unionist saying the 'Protestant' people of Ulster, were descended from the lost tribe of Israel!!!! I also remember white supremacists and pro-apartheid South Africans spouting the same drivel.

Ireland like Britain is a melting pot and is quite bastardised, no one has exclusive claim to the land, we just have to get on with each other and share the bloody place!!
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Postby notjim » Fri May 30, 2003 10:25 pm

That's pretty cool about the w counties, I never knew. I was asking around on this topic and someone said they thought some of the river names were preceltic. Does anyone know?
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