Lansdowne Road Stadium

What's your opinion of the design?

I like it - a major change from the current one, and sufficently different from Croke Park
679
82%
Not keen, I don't really like it
101
12%
No opinion, the devil is in the detail as they say
44
5%
 
Total votes : 824

Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby jimg » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:42 pm

I like the design but it suffers from a very serious problem - there is practically no increase in capacity. It's been impossible for general rugby fans to get tickets for any of the home internationals or the Autumn tour games for years (excluding the non-competition Autumn matches against minnow teams). For those outside of the inner circle with ties to high-up club blazers or without access to the corporate channels, the redevelopment means nothing in practical terms. I'd rather be able to get tickets to watch Ireland from a crappy stadium than be able to admire a nice new stadium on television.

This is such a serious flaw that I have very little enthusiasm for the new stadium despite actively following rugby since my childhood. An idea I had hoped would have been entertained was to preserve some terracing in the new stadium. Ok. it would have been out of bounds for soccer internationals but even 10m of terracing on front of all the seating would have, I estimate, have increased the capacity by about 10,000 for rugby internationals. This would also ensured that the special Lansdowne atmosphere created by the mass of standing supporters would be preserved and would have made Lansdowne unique among modern rugby stadia and would have given the IRFU the chance to offer some cheapish tickets.

So, it's great news for the well connected who can get tickets - they'll have more comfort watching the matches - but it does nothing to expand rugby's appeal by allowing more of the public or general rugby support the chance to experience the top games. A missed opportunity.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby alpha » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:36 pm

how many proposed designs has that stadium gone through since plans were announced to do it up? i do like the one above.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby who_me » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:14 pm

I think the site is constrained by the DART line behind the North terrace.

The capacity is a concern, but IF Croke Park stays available, there's little need for two large stadia in Dublin, so one 80K and one 50K might make some sense. If Croke Park is closed off again by the GAA once Lansdowne Rd. is finished, this makes less sense.

I just wonder how much it'll ACTUALLY cost. Hard to believe the Millennium stadium in Cardiff (c. 80K capacity with a sliding roof) was built for under £170 million (sterling).
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby Boyler » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:19 pm

Why don't they build the stadium outside of Dublin and the suburbs? These areas already have traffic problems, so why add to it? We all know that the nearby residents are going to complain, which I don't mind as long as they have good reason to, which is going to raise the cost AGAIN. So they could save a lot of time and money if they build it somewhere else.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby Bill McH » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:59 pm

murphaph wrote:Looks nice, but what's forcing the lower roof/smaller capacity stand where the north terrace is now? Is the site constrained behind the north terrace? (I sit in the upper west, near the north terrace end but you can't really see 'over' it to see if there's something stopping expansion there.

The IRFU are believed to own quite a number of the houses on the Lansdowne Road end of the ground - apparently they were buying the houses up until the time that property prices started to go mental. There are relatively few houses at that end of the ground (and therefore relatively few potential objectors), though quite a number at the Havelock Square/Vavasour Square end. Perhaps this is influencing the design of the stadium?

It will also be interesting to see just how they deal with the railway track - the level crossing, etc.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby jimg » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:11 pm

Building out-of-town stadia went out in the eighties. It's a terrible idea as the pre/post match atmosphere is generally dire. Many people drive so cannot drink and just disappear after the game; even if you don't drive there is little reason to hang around a carpark near a motorway. Even in the US - the land of the automobile - all the new baseball stadia are being built in "downtown" areas in recognition of the mistake that was made in seventies when the stadia moved out of the cities. No matter how many pubs, restaurants, etc. you build into the stadium complex, it could never compete with the hundreds of pubs, restaruants, shops, hotels, guesthouses within walking distance of Lansdowne Rd. It's one great thing about Dublin that we have two stadia within walking distance of the centre. It's what makes Dublin possibly the most popular destinations in Europe for rugby.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby jimg » Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:25 pm

The capacity is a concern, but IF Croke Park stays available, there's little need for two large stadia in Dublin, so one 80K and one 50K might make some sense. If Croke Park is closed off again by the GAA once Lansdowne Rd. is finished, this makes less sense.

It's a nice idea but it just won't happen. Even if the GAA were willing, I can't see the IRFU handing over 50% of their revenue to allow an extra 25% watch the match. I can't imagine the IRFU only using Lansdowne Rd for three rugby matches every two years (Italy on alternative years and a match against a minnow in the Autumn). For every other match there is huge demand for more tickets.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby who_me » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:52 pm

jimg wrote:It's a nice idea but it just won't happen. Even if the GAA were willing, I can't see the IRFU handing over 50% of their revenue to allow an extra 25% watch the match. I can't imagine the IRFU only using Lansdowne Rd for three rugby matches every two years (Italy on alternative years and a match against a minnow in the Autumn). For every other match there is huge demand for more tickets.


I think the capacity of Croker is about 84K, which would be an increase of 68% over Lansdowne. That probably would be worth upgrading for. However, it probably only makes sense if the GAA reciprocate and move matches with attendances less than 50K from Croke Park to Lansdowne.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby GrahamH » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:01 am

An interesting idea - would the GAA want to play away though?
Saw the other week the Ladies final in Croke Park had but a scattering of people on the lower tiers - then again they wouldn't want to host a final at least anywhere else which is understandable...

Just on a point mentioned on the Aer Lingus HQ thread by murphaph - what is to happen to the (surely this time ;)) fondly held tudor-syled house nestling in the corner of the ground? Yet another presumably protected house getting in the way. It'll have to be swept away outright, but I wonder if there are plans to 'keep' it for use elsewhere?
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby PVC King » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:19 am

Would it not be appropriate for the Wanderers pavillion to return to the clubs newish home on Merrion Rd?

A tough one to move given its finish
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby stira » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:07 am

you know it really is a joke, here is something of national interest and importance and a few gobs$£"tes are probably going to hold it up for years. Who knows what thrilling and convinving arguaments and lies and hype they will create. How many millions are they going to cost the state (i,e you and me) so they can congratulate each other on causing pain misery and expense for others! and sure if their campaign fails sure atleast theyll have tried! im sure theyll be complaining about the huge increase in capacity! when in fact it will be down 5000 for rugby but up 17000 for soccer, but still overall not a huge increase! theyll say it will overpower the area, isnt appropriate, is to modern for the area, theyll probably want it built it in mock red brick and it should have a slate roof! And it will probably be half the hight of liberty hall ladies and gentlmen, liberty hall! That collosal skysraper in town everything else here gets compared to when its over two stories! Have got to say it looks damn impressive, im more than impressed. I just get so wound up here when i think of all the waste of time and money and self interest that holds projects up. Just read earlier Lidl said they were basicly fed up with the amount of appeals etc holding up and blocking their attempts at expansion. And who makes most of these complaints? the competitiors they shouldnt even be entertained! RGDATA objected to a Lidl being set up in a retail park saying it contravened planning regualtions, funny that one of their member supermarkets has a supermarket in a nearby retail park! bloody hypocrits! Its about time that this crap was done away with and the interest of the majority were served! anyway was just thinking theyll probably be organising protests etc to the new stadium all 10 or so residents, why doesnt anyone who cares for Irish sport go down and organise their own protest and outvoice those backward pr*£"s! Their probably salivating at the thought of their own importance now that they get the chance to scupper such a vital piece if infrastructure!
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The new Lansdowne

Postby Paul Clerkin » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:56 pm

The redevelopment plan for Lansdowne Road Stadium envisages the creation of a modern stadium, which, on completion, will have an all seated capacity of 50,000.

The 50,000 compares with the existing Lansdowne Road Stadium which has an all seated capacity, as required for competitive Soccer, of 36,000 and a mixed standing and seated capacity of 49,000 for Rugby. All seating in the new stadium will be under cover of a roof; however, the roof will not extend over the pitch. The planning application will be lodged by Christmas 2005. A one-year period has been allocated for due process on the planning application, during which time detail design and procurement will progress. Construction proper, depending on planning, is scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2007 and to finish in the second quarter of 2009. The existing stadium will be available for matches during 2006.

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2005/000205.html
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby murphaph » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:27 pm

RGDATA make my blood boil, arrrggghh.....just thinking about them......conspiring

Half of the 'locals' are people who will have moved into the area in the last decade, mostly into the apartment complexes near Ballsbridge. How anyone living there with an ounce of common sense can think that this beautiful piece of construction will detract from the area that currently has the world's shittiest international football stadium. I hate going to Landsdowne now-the charm of the place wore off on me years ago-it's old and decrepit.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby GregF » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:00 pm

murphaph wrote:RGDATA make my blood boil, arrrggghh.....just thinking about them......conspiring
I hate going to Landsdowne now-the charm of the place wore off on me years ago-it's old and decrepit.


I hate the place too, as well as the RDS - old and decrepit , and the Point Depot - old and decrepit glorified warehouse.
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Re: The new Lansdowne

Postby weehamster » Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:04 pm

While I think the design is really good, I believe the site is too small. The existing site should be sold and then they should buy the former Irish Glass site just 5 mins walk away. There you will have plenty of room to build a stadium far bigger than 50,000 which I would consider small seeing how popular tickets would be for Ireland games.
Also the stadium on the Irish Glass site wouldn't be right on top of the locals unlike Lansdowne and there would be spaces for parking etc too.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby shweeney » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:16 pm

there should have been some increase in capacity - even if it meant moving the stadium to another location (the docks, or the irish bottle plant site) - 65,000 would probably do it. It looks nice, but i'll probably only ever see the outside of it.

the idea of having some terracing is an interesting one - schalke 04 in germany have a terraced section in their new ground which can be easily converted to seats when they play in european matches (where terracing is verboten). Given that LR is a joint rugby\soccer stadium maybe something similar could have been considered. There's no ban on terracing for rugby matches, and it does add to the atmosphere - an opportunity missed by the IRFU there.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby urbanisto » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:18 pm

Interestingly one of the residents interviewed in the Times today makes the point that the new stadium will be like having Liberty Hall in her back garden. She pointed out that, with boundary changes, the stadium will be as little as 15m from her home.

I like the new stadium. Its a very clever design and very eyecatching. If I read right the 'dip' or undulating roof is a product of the desire among the architects to meet residents concerns about overshadowing. And the finished product willbe all the better and more distinctive for it. Frank McDonalds piece is quite informative. The picture on the front of the times doesnt sell it for a minute though....at least not to leafy D4 residents. But as one other woman pointed out the alternative to the stadium is residential development and observing the shenanigans at Jury's that means high density high rise stuff. I think most people will be practical in the end although I think a 2 month planning process is a little too optimistic
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Re: The new Lansdowne

Postby Frank Taylor » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:31 pm

The illustrations looks great.

How often are two games >50,000 taking place on the same day in Dublin?
Why are all large games not just played in Croke Park with some smaller GAA played in Lansdowne? Time to bury the hatchet and the childishness.
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Re: The new Lansdowne

Postby crestfield » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:47 pm

According to press reports in January 2004 smaller GAA matchs would be played at new Lansdowne as it was'nt econoical to hold certain matches at Croke Park. I don't know if policy has changed now.
Sounds strange, but stadium economics are mad, just look at Leinsters decision to rent the RDS rather then use Lansdowne as it works out more profitible.

The idea of all large matchs being played at Croke Park maybe practical but from psycological problem of the IRFU and FAI having "borrow" the GAA ground for its big matchs.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby crestfield » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:58 pm

Reading McDonald's piece today reminded of how highly Croke Park is thought. of. I have never understood the admiration for this building. Sure enough it serves its purpose very well, but as regards contributing to the sky line or being astetically pleaseing on the outside I just see a load of concrete. Fine piece of strctural engineeing but can't see the architure.

On the other hand I think the Lansdowne design looks very pleaseing.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby GregF » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:34 am

I think the new Lansdowne Road proposal with its undulating curvy ''organic'' like roof makes Croker look kinda dated.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby dodger » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:12 am

After an intial positive reaction to the new proposed stadium i'm having some 'aftershock' of disappointment. The design lacks ambition. In order to pacify residents they've gone to the other extreme and produced in effect a three sided stadium. The north end will leak atmosphere from the stadium like a sieve. To an extent Croke Park has the same issue but at least there hill16 is of significant heigth and it is a terrace which mitigates against any loss of atmosphere.

There should also be a terrace in lansdowne for the rugby games. Swapping the present North terrace for a mickey mouse northern stand is a mistake.

Its unlikely the GAA will want to use this stadium - why would they pay the FAI/IRFU when they have an ample and superior stadium themselves. A half full croke park is better for the GAA than a full lansdowne they would have to pay for, At the same time the FAI/IRFU will constantly find themselves under pressure from supporters to use Croker for the big games.

Finally i can't shake the conviction that Dublin doesn't need two large expensive stadia. I am convinced that time would have been better spent coming to final agreement on the use of Croke Park by all three organisations. Thereby saving the tax payer millions and having increased access to all sports while also generating more revenue for the GAA (all of which is pumped into local communities).
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby GregF » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:39 am

I believe that Dublin needs 2 stadiums or even more (or why not develop a secondary multipurpose stadium outside Dublin) If Croke Park was solely used for all field games (Gaa Football, Hurling, Soccer, Rugby) it's playing surface would greatly suffer. Also there are times too when major games in either of the 4 field sports clash. If ye look at Scotland which has about the same population as ourselves but yet only 2 field sports (Soccer, Rugby) it has an ample amount of decent stadia that are reasonably used. Glasgow has Celtic Park , Ibrox and Hampden Park and not forgetting Murrayfield in Edinburgh as well as Hibs and Hearts grounds
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby dodger » Wed Oct 19, 2005 11:55 am

The Croke Park surface can handle the pressure - its been designed for it - the schedule this summer has been particularly punishing and there's not a mark on the pitch. Going forward the GAA plan to have fewer matches in HQ and more in the provinces (due to lower attendances and not the surface) so its ability to hold more games would improve even further.

With all due respect to Scotland they don't need all those stadia either, it has a population over 10 times that of Dublin, a soccer league that people actually go and watch and none of the stadia are of the quality of Croke Park or the proposed Lansdowne road (in fact many of them are falling down). Its not a good example and not one i'd follow.
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Re: New Lansdowne Road Stadium proposal unveiled

Postby GregF » Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:11 pm

....just to add the population of Scotland is about 5 million and is due to fall below that ....the population of the island of Ireland is 5.5 million and continuely growing. Lansdowne Road will be enthusiastically used when redeveloped just as the magnificant Croke Park is . It will not be a white elephent .

.....and Celtic Park, Ibrox, Murrayfield or Hampden Park are not falling down.
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