Limerick Transport

Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:05 pm

dodgyman wrote:On the midwest roads map, which option for the Adare bypass seems the most obvious, red, green or blue?


From what I make out the original option 1 (Black Route) looks the better choice for the N21 bypass. It seems the bypass options 2, 3 and 4 will only connect the N21 with the old N20 road and not directly with the M20. One would eventually get onto M20 at the Attyflin (Patrickswell) junction. The NRA illustrations need more detail!

Which route do you preferr yourself?

Limerick County Council is to revisit and review the Route Corridor Selection for the N21 Adare Bypass as a result of changes in national infrastructural policy along with the recent announcement of the Emerging Preferred Route for the M20 Cork - Limerick Motorway Scheme.

Option 1 (Black Route)
Commences west of Adare on the N21 at Garraunboy, then departs from the existing road heading north east, crossing the L-8025 and the Greanagh River, before crossing Blackabbey Road and the Limerick-Foynes railway line and
heading east across Kildimo Road, then crossing the River Maigue and the railway before continuing parallel to the railway line to tie-in to the N21 at Gorteen.

Option 2 (Green Route)
Commences west of Adare on the N21 at Rower Beg, then departs east, running parallel to the existing N21 before crossing the R519 and heading south east towards the townland of Boulabally, bridging the River Maigue. The route
continues eastward crossing both the L-1420 and L-8053 before tying into the N20 at Fanningstown.

Option 3 (Red Route)
Commences west of Adare on the N21 at Rower Beg, then departs from the existing road heading south, before turning east and crossing the R519.
The route then traverses the townlands of Graiguesparling and Boulabally, where it bridges the River Maigue. The route turns north eastward
crossing both the L-1420 and L-8053 local roads before tying into the N20 at Garranroe.

Option 4 (Blue Route)
Commences west of Adare on the N21 at Garraunboy, then departs from the existing road heading south east. The route crosses the R519 in the townland of Granard, before turning north eastward, crossing the River Maigue at Castleroberts and then the L-1420 before tying into the N20 at Fanningstown.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dodgyman » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:10 pm

Well actually I live and work on one of these routes :( . If the route I am on is chosen it will completely change everything for me I think. I would rather not say as to which route I am on as I want to hear everyone’s opinion. I don’t want biased opinions one way or the other. Just honest professional opinions please. Thanks.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:16 pm

The M21 Should not go at a right angle, whoever came up with these route options, needs to order a new brain and a pair of binoculars.

The green combined with My route on the previous page.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:22 pm

Looks like the RGB routes are joke routes and they plan to stick to the black (much the same as the previous non-M20 linked scheme).
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:28 pm

Why would you put, the N21 route options at right angles to the N20 and N21? Are the planner's this incapable of carrying out proper route selections.?

My route is the red/green combined, with a better curve towards the M20, as It should be. The new interchange would be Half way between Croom and the present N20/N21 interchange. The black route is fine, but there is a waste of an interchange with two beside each other. The M20/M21 interchange should be a single motorway/motorway interchange on a greenfield location half way between Croom and Patrickswell. There is no real benifet putting the motorway interchange right beside the existing one. That's a pure waste.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 11:34 pm

Had to scribble on this, it looks better now. Had to colour out the sexy right angles.:rolleyes:

Can someone tell me who decided to put these route options in, they are laughable. Why would you build a pointless blue road snaking all over the place, and then join the N21 as if your going to head to foynes or something.:rolleyes:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:21 am

Whichever route is chosen, the Adare bypass will commence at a new interchange with the proposed M20. Thankfully common sense appears to have prevailed and the two schemes will be constructed as part of the same contract. This is the reason why potential new routes for the bypass are being considered!

As we can see from the map, the new M20 follows the line of the existing Croom bypass, which will be widened from its current WS2 arrangement. Just before the end of the bypass it veers off on a new allignment, west of the existing N20 (where the green route begins). Once completed, the current N20 will be de-trunked to become a regional road (re-coloured in orange below).

The black and green routes are probably the most likely options. If I had to choose, I'd go for the original black route as it provides better access to the village. Option 4 (Blue) is a total non-runner!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:07 pm

Tuborg wrote:Whichever route is chosen, the Adare bypass will commence at a new interchange with the proposed M20.


Tuborg, looking at the map above yes, but they also write above that options 2, 3 and 4 of tying them into the N20 at Fanningstown / Garranroe. No direct mention of the M20. :confused:

Tuborg wrote:As we can see from the map, the new M20 follows the line of the existing Croom bypass, which will be widened from its current WS2 arrangement.


Is this definite that the existing Croom bypass will become part of the M20?

I took another look in at the Cork National Road Office and found this image with various routes from the proposal stage. Interestingly enough they show only a half grade seperated junction at Fanningstown.

However the so called “emerging preferred route corridor” for the M20 between Charleville and Patrickswell shows the Croom Junction at the southern end of the Croom Bypass.

There is a need here for more detailed maps denoting motorway / junction types / primary roads from Charleville to Limerick and Adare to Limerick.

  • Triangle: Half Grade Separated Junction
  • Hexagon: Free Flow Junction
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:48 am

CologneMike wrote:Tuborg, looking at the map above yes, but they also write above that options 2, 3 and 4 of tying them into the N20 at Fanningstown / Garranroe. No direct mention of the M20. :confused:


I wouldn't take any notice of that. Of the three alternative routes, its only the red option that dosent connect directly with the M20 corridor. For some reason it terminates on a substandard, undulating part of the current N20 that is littered with private accesses etc. It makes absolutely no sense and I've no idea why they included it!:confused:

Realistically, the route options map hints at what we already know, that the new M20/N21 interchange will be built just to the south west of the current Attyflin junction. You can basically see the parameters of it mapped out already. My take on it is attached below.

CologneMike wrote:
Is this definite that the existing Croom bypass will become part of the M20?



The Croom bypass (see attached) opened in the Summer of 2001. It was built as a wide 2 lane road, a format that the NRA have since abandoned. There is certainly scope to widen the bypass to motorway although the existing bridges will be problematic.You'd squeeze a D2 carriageway under them but you would probably have to lose the hard shoulder! A similar scenario occurs on the recently upgraded Nenagh bypass.


CologneMike wrote:I took another look in at the Cork National Road Office and found this image with various routes from the proposal stage. Interestingly enough they show only a half grade seperated junction at Fanningstown.

However the so called “emerging preferred route corridor” for the M20 between Charleville and Patrickswell shows the Croom Junction at the southern end of the Croom Bypass.

There is a need here for more detailed maps denoting motorway / junction types / primary roads from Charleville to Limerick and Adare to Limerick.



The current Croom junction is a compact LILO (left in, left out) at the beginning of the bypass. Upgrading this would be troublesome enough so I wouldn't be surprised if a new junction at another location is being considered.

I attended one of the public consultations back in October I think it was and I spoke briefly to an NRA official. He basically explained that detailed plans of junctions etc wont be available until the Motorway Order is published sometime during the Summer!:( I would be particularly interested to see the plans for the new M20/N21 interchange, Im guessing it will have limited access?

Croom bypass image courtesy of Chris 533976
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby pippin101 » Tue Apr 21, 2009 4:40 pm

In my opinion the green route is by far the best. It connects with both (old) N20 and future M20, and is shortest.

In order of optimality, the other three are:
- Red (separate junctions needed for M20 and N20)
- Black (too close to the town)
- Blue (far too circuitous route)
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue May 05, 2009 11:20 pm

Just a follow up to the bus lane farce from the planning thread.:rolleyes:


Deadlock on transport plan halted city funding (Limerick Leader)

LIMERICK missed out on a Government fund of €20m over the last five years because of a deadlock over public transport in the city, according to local election candidate for the Green Party, James Nix.
Councillors in Limerick failed to reach agreement on an appropriate new bus route plan for the city, meaning the council could not avail of a Government fund to improve public transport in all gateway cities, according to Mr Nix.

The proposed installation of green routes in suburbs around the city has been at the core of disagreements between councillors and the council itself over the last five years.

This week, the Green Party launched an alternative transport plan to those which have been proposed - and argued over by sitting councillors - in recent years. Mr Nix said that if agreement can be reached by the council, the Department of Transport will prioritise the city when allocating funds.

"The funding is available to Dublin, Limerick, Cork, Galway and Waterford," explained the Green candidate. "The Department is aware that Limerick has not drawn down this funding and so will have them top of their list once a proper public transport plan is adopted by the council.

"Our new plan, instead of focusing on introducing bus lanes in the suburbs, concentrates on the city centre and works its way out. We need to enable public transport to take the space of vehicles drawn out of the city with the opening of the new tunnel under the Shannon next year."

Mr Nix says he started working with the Roads Department in Limerick City Council as early as last March on an alternative plan for Limerick that would include "simple yet effective measures".

Among the list of Green recommendations is traffic light priority for buses, better lane usage and an enhancement programme to reduce journey times for public transport on a number of routes, specifically between Limerick's Maternity Hospital and Brown Thomas on O'Connell Street.

"We need to design a network with high-frequency, well-known routes in parallel with smaller buses providing more dedicated services," Mr Nix continued.

"Turning away a multi-million euro sum year after year for failing to agree a plan is not a situation we can allow to continue. With many families shedding second cars and coming to rely more and more on public transport, as well as an ageing population, workable public transport is needed more every day."

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby dave123 » Sat May 09, 2009 10:30 pm

Can't they not just agglomerate Limerick city into one council. Its the only way for the city to prosper, its becoming an embarresment. The planning of this city is going to actually affect the monopoly greed no gooders in the end. They are so greedy they dont see it yet.

Where is the Green T.D minister Gormly on this Issue. if they cant expand the whole city into one authority yet, They should push for Castlettoy and UL into the city for fuck sake like. It's just hideous at this stage. Limerick country would still benefiet as they can then focus on building around NWC as Limerick nexts biggest urban area. Seriously lets be a bit more logical here. All I can see is the whole Midwest suffering if the councilors let the city go divided any longer on the planning development front in years to come if not already. We are starting to see chaos already with public transport bus lanes. These kind of issues dont happen in other cities.

It's actually a joke.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue May 12, 2009 8:35 pm

Agreement reached on mid-west infrastructure masterplan (Irish Examiner)

By Jimmy Woulfe, Mid-West Correspondent

AGREEMENT has been reached on the drafting of a masterplan for the long-term infrastructure development of Counties Clare, North Tipperary, Limerick city and Co Limerick.

Limerick City Council, acting on behalf of the mid-west’s regional and local authorities, has reached agreement with civil engineering consultants, Mott MacDonald Pettit, to prepare the framework document for guiding future residential, commercial and industrial development in the mid-west region.

Called the Mid-West Area Strategic Plan (MWASP), it will have a significant bearing on the development of the region’s transportation infrastructure over the next 30 years. Supported by the Department of Transport and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Limerick City Council will act as lead authority for the project on behalf of the Mid-West Regional Authority, Clare County Council, Limerick County Council and North Tipperary County Council.

Limerick City manager Tom Mackey said: "It is important to develop a planning, land use and transportation strategy for the region to help it compete nationally and internationally. The strategy output will integrate transport and land use planning in the mid-west while embracing the sustainable philosophy, and planning for the region’s current and future need."

Regional authority director Liam Conneally said: "The output of the strategy is not intended to be an ‘end-state’, but rather the first substantial step in a 30-year strategy that will shape the future of the mid-west.

"During the recent economic boom much development has been developer-led whereby strategic locations have been land banked for potential future development. This study, however, is plan-led whereby the regional and local authorities identify locations deemed suitable for sustainable development. Furthermore, the strategy will feed into mid-west regional planning guidelines and will particularly inform the Clare, Limerick and North Tipperary county development plans and the Limerick City Plan, which are presently under review."

Mr Conneally explained the strategy would provide the mid-west authorities with evidence-based cases to justify undertaking large-scale planning and transportation projects.

He said: "The study will include a traffic model examining the impact of all new developments on the road and rail transportation network. The regional and local authorities will be able to use the model to determine the potential impacts of any large scale commercial, retail or employment creation proposals on the existing transportation network in the areas concerned and provide vital information on infrastructure upgrades necessary to accommodate such projects.

"Ultimately, the model will contribute to the sustainable economic development of the mid-west, as well as maximise the proper use of local, regional and national road, rail and other transport networks." Tom O’Connor, managing director of Mott MacDonald Pettit, said the development of a strategic plan for the region would ensure the balanced growth of the region.


"During the recent economic boom much development has been developer-led whereby strategic locations have been land banked for potential future development. This study, however, is plan-led whereby the regional and local authorities identify locations deemed suitable for sustainable development."


Maybe the present downturn is a "blessing in disguise" as far as planning is concerned! The local authorities have now a little breathing space to catch up with what the developers did and now they must plan in a coherent way for the good of the Mid-West.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue May 12, 2009 11:45 pm

N21 Adare Bypass Emerging Preferred Route Corridor

I cant believe they're going with the blue option! An absolutely baffling decision!:eek:
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Wed May 13, 2009 9:01 am

dave123 wrote:Limerick country would still benefiet as they can then focus on building around NWC as Limerick nexts biggest urban area. Seriously lets be a bit more logical here. All I can see is the whole Midwest suffering if the councilors let the city go divided any longer on the planning development front in years to come if not already. We are starting to see chaos already with public transport bus lanes. These kind of issues dont happen in other cities.

It's actually a joke.


I agree. In the medium/longer term, County Limerick would prosper more despite not including the city environs - a city under a single authority would provide a greater economic hub for the county. The current situation is in fact holding back the county as well as the city.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Jun 10, 2009 11:09 pm

N21 Abbeyfeale to Adare Road Improvement Scheme

Anybody got an up to date status on this project?
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:35 pm

CologneMike wrote:N21 Abbeyfeale to Adare Road Improvement Scheme

Anybody got an up to date status on this project?


Seen as the NRA have done away with un-segregated wide single lane roads, it will be interesting to see what they come up with for this project. Theres talk that it will be a 2+2 road, i.e. dual 2 lane with central barrier, narrow hard shoulder and compact left in/left out junctions.

Some might consider this to be overkill but then again the N21 is an important access route to the south west aswell as a key tourist route. Constructing it to this standard would also mean it would be future-proofed for many decades to come.

Unfortunately though, as bad as the current N21 is (and it is truly shocking in parts) and despite the fact that bypasses of Newcastle West and Abbeyfeale are sorely needed,there is little chance of this scheme going anywhere in the next 5 years! As the Country is basically broke, very few new projects will be going ahead over the next couple of years. Projects like this one, which are not very high on the NRA's priority list, look like being pushed back until post 2014.:(
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:29 pm

M7 Nenagh - Limerick update

This project was due to be completed last month however some well documented issues with the contractor late last year have slowed things down. A section of extremely boggy land near Daly's Cross has also complicated matters, a large number of piles have had to be driven into the ground for stabilisation purposes.

All going well, the road should now open in November/December. It looks like its going to be a pretty scenic drive.:)


Photos taken by tech2 at boards.ie


Taken from the overbridge near Dromin

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Taken from the R504 overbridge near Birdhill

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Overbridge, south of Daly's Cross

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Underbridge south of that overbridge, the piles can be seen

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Looking northbound towards Nenagh

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Upgraded Nenagh bypass

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:45 am

Tuborg wrote:Seen as the NRA have done away with un-segregated wide single lane roads, it will be interesting to see what they come up with for this project. Theres talk that it will be a 2+2 road, i.e. dual 2 lane with central barrier, narrow hard shoulder and compact left in/left out junctions.


Overkill or not, we need purpose built national roads for cars, trucks, buses. National roads that just evolved in ad hoc manner from the days of the horse drawn cart are not acceptable from a road safety point of view. Its ridiculous to see trucks driving along the hard shoulder to allow other road users pass.

Tuborg wrote:As the Country is basically broke, very few new projects will be going ahead over the next couple of years. Projects like this one, which are not very high on the NRA's priority list, look like being pushed back until post 2014.:(


True, in the meantime all the planning, the locating of the route, etc, etc can be done now for this section of the N21. So when funds are available there should be no other obstacles in its way.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby PoxyShamrock » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:46 pm

Another article that no one mentioned regarding the city's brilliant bus service.

Limerick bus services to be slashed
12 June 2009


By David Hurley

BUS services across the city will be severely impacted by cost-cutting measures which are set to be rolled out by Bus Eireann in the coming weeks.
The Limerick Leader has learned that up to 30 bus drivers will lose their jobs when proposals to downgrade services and remove dozens of buses from the fleet in Limerick are implemented.

Services on all city routes will be reduced as part of the plan and only the Castletroy, Caherdavin and Raheen services will continue to operate after 7 o'Clock at night.

Bus Eireann spokesman, Andrew McLindon, declined to comment on what he described as speculation ahead of any formal announcement by the company. "The majority of the changes will involve either reductions in the frequency of a service or a change in its route. Some services that are not economically viable in the current economic environment will be withdrawn," he said.

Mr McLindon said Bus Eireann had lost €1m in Limerick last year due to traffic congestion and he urged the newly elected members of Limerick City Council to address the issues of bus lanes as a matter of priority.

"If we had bus lanes in place then we might have been able to do other things with our services," he said.

Cllr Orla McLoughlin, who was elected for the first time at the weekend, is outraged at the imminent cuts. "It is devastating and it is wiping out a crucial service in the city, people are actually struggling at the moment to get to work or to get across the city and now they are going to have to pay for taxi and the whole business of running the city is being left to wreck and ruin and I want to put this on the agenda at City Hall," she said.

SIPTU has entered negotiations with Bus Eireann and a deadline of June 19 has been set for agreement to be reached. It is right across the county, it is a cost containment exercise and they are going through which routes and which grades of drivers they can cut," said one union source.

Services to and from Shannon, Charleville, Doon, Glin and Coonagh will also be affected by the cost-cutting measures.

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby D-A-V-E » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:39 pm

PoxyShamrock wrote:Another article that no one mentioned regarding the city's brilliant bus service.


so basically the third largest city in the country with over 100,000 with next to no public transportation system is further going to decrease the only public transportation system to only 3 routes after 7? i also read that Limerick has the least amount of busses per head of population out of any other city in the country..thats a joke.

also on the discussion of the city boundary, apparently killarney has a bigger boundary than Limerick city boundary (prior to coonagh extension) and galways is over 4 times the area of Limericks, and if Limerick was to get an extension to the same area as galways then there would be just under 120,000 in Limerick..if this is true then something serious has to be done to get limerick back onto the map again as 3rd most economically important urban area..not 4th or 5th
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:37 pm

PoxyShamrock wrote:Another article that no one mentioned regarding the city's brilliant bus service.
Limerick bus services to be slashed

Mr McLindon said Bus Eireann had lost €1m in Limerick last year due to traffic congestion and he urged the newly elected members of Limerick City Council to address the issues of bus lanes as a matter of priority.

"If we had bus lanes in place :o then we might have been able to do other things with our services," he said.



So the local elections are now behind us. Will see if this lot can roll out the badly needed bus lanes along O’Connell Avenue, Ennis Road and Mulgrave Street.

By the way progressive Galway City Council have installed bus lanes years ago!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby PoxyShamrock » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:36 pm

CologneMike wrote:So the local elections are now behind us. Will see if this lot can roll out the badly needed bus lanes along O’Connell Avenue, Ennis Road and Mulgrave Street.

By the way progressive Galway City Council have installed bus lanes years ago!


HA!

There'll be no bus lane next or near O'Connell Avenue now that Maria "Nimby" Byrne has been re-elected.

By all means put a bus lane on the Condell Road (because it was needed so badly :rolleyes:) but just don't go near her territory.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:31 pm

PoxyShamrock wrote:HA!

There'll be no bus lane next or near O'Connell Avenue now that Maria "Nimby" Byrne has been re-elected.

By all means put a bus lane on the Condell Road (because it was needed so badly :rolleyes:) but just don't go near her territory.


I was surprised that she got re-elected in the first place but even more so by the fact that she seemed to get a very solid vote. No doubt her anti bus-lane stance bought her a lot of support from the O' Connell Avenue residents in particular!:rolleyes:

People give on about the undeniably crap bus service here but when improvements like this are proposed, they cry foul. You cant have it both ways!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:35 pm

Limerick Green Bus Route gets go ahead (Live95fm)

It's all systems go for a 1.2 million euro green route on Mulgrave Street in Limerick city.
Local residents and businesses had objected to the introduction of a bus lane on the in-bound section of the street but have now reached agreement with Limerick City Council after receiving a number of assurances.

They want 10 houses at St Dympna's Terrace bypassed and disc parking for residents outside the peak-time bus lane hours.

Half a million euro in funding has also been approved by the Department of Transport for a green route from the Maternity Hospital to Sarsfield Bridge :eek: on the Ennis Road and €150,000 has been granted to allow the Childers Road project enter the design phase.

Director of Services at Limerick City Council Pat Dromey says the Green Routes will provide a lot of added value to the areas involved.


New Limerick bus lane to cost €1,700 per metre (Limerick Leader)

By Nick Rabbitts

A PROPOSED bus lane stretching less than 300 metres into the city is to cost a massive €500,000, or almost €1,700 per metre, new figures from Limerick City Council show.
At yesterday's council meeting, members were shown plans for new bus lanes after the Department of Transport approved funding for the scheme.

And while a route from Mulgrave Street into the Cathedral Street junction is to cost €1.2m, with the widening of Childers Road set to cost €150,000, there was shock after it was revealed a short section of road from the maternity hospital to Sarsfield Bridge will cost half a million euro.

According to a document presented to councillors yesterday, the green route – which will be widely used by services starting their journey to Shannon Airport – will include new pedestrian crossing facilities, improved quality bus stops and new public street lighting.

But Independent councillor Kathleen Leddin was left concerned at the price tag on the proposal – and she also said that the size of buses coming down the Ennis Road were hampering the provision of a more convenient bus service.

"These buses are huge and ponderous. :confused: People here should talk to Bus Eireann and make sure we get smaller buses. :eek: Whatever people say, there needs to be some input to give people a smaller bus model, which is convenient and sustainable for the area."

Elsewhere, following talks with business owners and residents of Mulgrave Street – some of whom were in the council chamber yesterday – new plans were unveiled for a bus lane on this stretch, eight months after the Council agreed to "withdraw and delete" plans for the route.

However, councillors have already called for a section of this route, which runs from the Pike to the Cathedral Street junction, to be deleted from the new plans.

And there have also been concerns expressed as to whether Bus Eireann will have enough staff to service the route after the Limerick Chronicle revealed the embattled state bus provider was to axe 30 jobs in the city.


Progressive city councilors and their patchwork public transport policies. :rolleyes:

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