Limerick Transport

Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:27 pm

N7 / N24 Interchange At Ballysimon

http://www.archiseek.com/content/showpost.php?p=54802&postcount=747

CologneMike wrote:I think the former UL president Dr Ed Walsh has another vision for an Atlantic road corridor than the Limerick County Council does! Bad building practices will equate to road fatalities here. Enough land was acquired for the N7 and the realigned N24 stretch and yet the interchange is a dangerous mess!
I did not even understand why the N24 on this new stretch was not built to dual carriageway standard in the first place? A roundabout was provided for the university on the way into the city centre. Why did they not build the interchange with roundabouts similar to that at the Dooradoyle interchange.

Tuborg wrote:That interchange was always going to be a shambles, diamond interchanges just arent built anymore!, especially not on routes that carry relatively high volumes of traffic!, their capacity is very limited and large queues often develop, this happens on the ballysimon road where traffic wishing to access the cork/kerry slip have to give way to traffic entering the city on the N24. The problem could definately be solved with the installation of two roundabout at the entrance to the slip roads, im no fan of roundabouts myself but i certainly dont think a free flow interchange is needed here, the dumbell(junction with 2 r/bouts) wqould be a cheap and relatively speedy solution to the current difficulties! Although I feared limerick county council would install traffic lights in the near future and sure enough!...


Any new developments here?

Last August the Limerick County Council proposed works to improve the interchange, including ramps, traffic signals, road markings, public lighting and the introduction of a new speed limit on the N24.

Having seen this bird’]of the N7/N24 interchange at Ballysimon from the [B]Parkes Properties web site, I would have to retract some of my criticism previously posted above against the Limerick county council and the NRA as the interchange site had a few tricky constraints to overcome.

There are three roads on three different elevations, that cross a railway line at three different points, coupled by the little Groody river , a small graveyard plus of course there are clusters of one-off Bungalows to contend with at the interchange.

I presume the old N24 road (single carriageway) was not suitable for the N7 / N24 interchange.
The old N24 road crosses under the railway line.
The new N7 road (dual carriageway) crosses over the old N24 road and crosses over the railway line.
The new N24 road (single carriageway) in turn crosses over the N7 road and crosses over the railway line.
That the old and new N24 roads run parallel and close to each other, the new road had to be elevated to a height which was two flights higher than the older one. I presume costs prohibited elevated roundabouts at the interchange along with redirecting the little Groody river and the small graveyard?

I hope they get the N7 / N18 / N20 Rossbrien interchange right, though from what sketches I have seen, I still can’t figure out some of the exit slip lanes?
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sun Jun 10, 2007 10:00 pm

THE_Chris wrote:Ive emailed the NRA about the Rossbrien interchange, looking at all the pictures Ive seen, the Galway - Cork movement is left out. This is farcical, and I have emailed them asking whether this is true or not and for better pictures.


Rossbrien Interchange

Chris check out this interactive map. It’s pretty neat!

(1) First click the Galway/Shannon to Cork/Kerry route. Note the loop at the interchange

(2) Now select the Cork to Dublin route.

The same loop in two different directions? I know the map is only two dimensional but still I’m curious :confused: about it’s physical lay out.

See also Map of Rossbrien Interchange
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Mon Jun 18, 2007 10:35 pm

Ennis Rd bus and cycle lanes kick in mid-July (Limerick Post)

THE INSTALLATION of new bus and cycle lanes on the Ennis Road have led to traffic gridlock and utter confusion.

So says Cllr Cormac Hurley, adding he has been inundated with calls from local residents and business people who are in the dark over operating hours on the new lanes.

However, a spokesman for Limerick County Council has called for patience, pointing out that the lanes, when operational from mid July, will see improvement. The lanes will operate at off-peak hours, from 10am until 3pm.

"The bus and cycle lanes are a continuation of a plan to link them up to St Nessan’s Road in Dooradoyle and the Dublin Road, from the Kilmurry to Groody Roundabout. However, the road works aren’t finished yet. Further works are currently underway at Caherdavin Cross. We will also be installing signage in the area to let people know the hours it will be in operation.

"The Ennis Road will work far better when the Southern Ring Road is completed and the tunnel is built. Bus Eireann will also be putting on extra routes and increased services. Buses run every 10 minutes along St Nessan’s Road and the bus lane is also used for taxis, hackneys and the emergency services - so it works very well. But we will have to wait until additional services are in place on the Ennis Road before the bus lanes are in operation full time”.

Cllr Hurley said that the lanes were all laid out, but there were no notices saying that they were operational or the times etc.

"People accessing estates in Caherdavin Lawn or businesses along the Ennis Road, especially car dealerships, were unsure about whether they were allowed to drive on the lanes. And they were getting caught up in huge traffic jams. Others are using it as a shortcut through traffic. There’s just confusion,” claimed Cllr Hurley.

Although many residents praised the ethos behind the bus and cycle lanes, they had reservations about space constraints on the Ennis Road for the lanes.

The Road’s Department spokesperson told the Post there will be increased access to businesses, because of more gaps in traffic, when the lanes are fully operational. Yellow boxes will also guarantee access into housing estates and dwellings.

"Businesses seem to be objecting more to cycle lanes as car dealers often park their transporters outside the dealership and roll on and off the cars from there. This is illegal anyway as it is a public road,” he stressed.


A spokesman for Limerick County Council has called for patience, pointing out that the lanes, when operational from mid July, will see improvement. The lanes will operate at off-peak hours, from 10am until 3pm.


What a farce Limerick County Council!:o Bus lanes were concepted for peak times! i.e. (07:00 to 10:00) and (15:00 to 19:00). Either install bus lanes properly or not at all! The whole point is to reward those who opt to use public transport where they leave their cars at home or outside the city centre, thus help reduce traffic congestion!

"The Ennis Road will work far better when the Southern Ring Road is completed and the tunnel is built.


Tunnel to be finished by the 17 Sept. 2010 i.e. three years time! :o The Spokesman's melody must be don’t worry be happy ………

"People accessing estates in Caherdavin Lawn or businesses along the Ennis Road, especially car dealerships, were unsure about whether they were allowed to drive on the lanes. And they were getting caught up in huge traffic jams. Others are using it as a shortcut through traffic. There’s just confusion,” claimed Cllr Hurley.


It smacks like our provisional driving licence system scam! :o
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby THE_Chris » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:30 am

This clears things up about Rossbrien. This is blatently nicked from SABRE, thanks to Truvelo for making it.

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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Griff » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:05 pm

Tuborg wrote:Yeah it was the last element to be secured beneath the river, the (actual) final segment is a much more straight forward affair connecting to the "cut and cover" section at the north portal.

Although it seems that the project is at an advanced stage, traffic tunnels are extremely complex beasts and the next stage, which is the fit-out is an extremely tedious process. The tunnel will also have to go through a rigourous programme of tests before being deemed safe. The Dublin Port Tunnel has been plagued by problems since its opening so they dont want to see a repeat here! Also the local emergency services will have to be specially trained to deal with any incidents that occur in the new tunnel, so theres a lot to consider!

The section from the new Rossbrien interchange to the Dock Road could conceivably open by next summer however there would be little point in doing so as all the traffic would have to exit at the chaotic Dock Road interchange. The sub-standard, lazy design of this interchange means its going to be a real nightmare and will definitely have to be re-visited in the near fuure! Why oh why do we have to be so short-sighted?:mad:


I agree - although it isnt quite as bad as the atrocious decision to not make a proper intersection on the Tipperary road junction with the main bypass dual carriageway.. the traffic lights cause serious tail backs at rush hour. Back in the mid 80s when the Shannon bridge was in planning the opportunity was there to make it a 4 lane bridge for - if I remember correctly an extra million pounds...
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 02, 2008 5:03 pm

Griff wrote:I agree - although it isnt quite as bad as the atrocious decision to not make a proper intersection on the Tipperary road junction with the main bypass dual carriageway.. the traffic lights cause serious tail backs at rush hour. Back in the mid 80s when the Shannon bridge was in planning the opportunity was there to make it a 4 lane bridge for - if I remember correctly an extra million pounds...


Really? I think theres every chance it'll be worse. Take a look at the attached diagram, there will be SIX arms on the cement factory roundabout.

1. Southern Ring On-Slip

2. N69 to City Centre

3. Southern Ring Off-Slip

4. Raheen Link Road

5. N69 to Foynes

6. Entrance to Irish Cement


Also as the current link to the Childers Road from the N20 and N7 will be closed off, the Dock Road interchange will became a primary access point to the city centre, especially for traffic coming from Cork and Kerry. Factor in existing volumes on the Dock Road, Irish Cement traffic and of course freight traffic heading to Foynes Port and you have all the ingredients of a fairly serious congestion problem!:mad:
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:19 pm

On another matter , Apparently Limerick City Council are granting Planning for the re-designed boat club development by Sarsfield Bridge:confused:
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby dave123 » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:58 am

Tuborg wrote:Really? I think theres every chance it'll be worse. Take a look at the attached diagram, there will be SIX arms on the cement factory roundabout.



Also as the current link to the Childers Road from the N20 and N7 will be closed off, the Dock Road interchange will became a primary access point to the city centre, especially for traffic coming from Cork and Kerry. Factor in existing volumes on the Dock Road, Irish Cement traffic and of course freight traffic heading to Foynes Port and you have all the ingredients of a fairly serious congestion problem!:mad:



I remember seeing that, Turbog. But right now, it's just further, clarifying to me, that is one planning disaster.


With the space provided, It's looks absurb, they just threw two gigantic roundabouts and insert it into a straight forward Dumbell interchange?!

So imaginative:rolleyes:


Seriously been such a busy road, and so many junctions. It's just hideous. It's just not in anyway acceptable !
They could have at least have a half cloverleaf (loops on each arm of the mainline M18) with the local roads joining the N60 at grade, providing lefts in and offs. Would be suitable and much less hassel, than putting two gigantic dangerous roundabouts with all sorts of road converging onto it.


I want to know the man designing it. I'm serious. Could someone please send me in Pm if you have any details, thanks. I'm going to be onto him. Show him what a mess, this is and what a mess he is. Then show him the solution to this mess! :)

Seriously its awful to look at from the sky too!
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby iomanaiocht » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:41 pm

Has the Opera Centre permission by the City Council been appealed to Bord Pleanala
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Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:47 am

Griff wrote:I find it hard to believe that the fit-out and commissioning work will take another 2 years based on the speed of progress to date and I wonder are they being conservative with the program in order to look good if its opened ahead of schedule.
Tuborg wrote:Although it seems that the project is at an advanced stage, traffic tunnels are extremely complex beasts and the next stage, which is the fit-out is an extremely tedious process. The tunnel will also have to go through a rigourous programme of tests before being deemed safe. The Dublin Port Tunnel has been plagued by problems since its opening so they dont want to see a repeat here! Also the local emergency services will have to be specially trained to deal with any incidents that occur in the new tunnel, so theres a lot to consider!

The section from the new Rossbrien interchange to the Dock Road could conceivably open by next summer however there would be little point in doing so as all the traffic would have to exit at the chaotic Dock Road interchange.


Listening to Tom King on Morning Ireland, one can only smile to hear that the tunnel project is on time and on budget which it is, but it can’t take too much fantasy of seeing this road be opened before its planned date . . . . . . . . toll charges! ;)
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:02 pm

vkid wrote:Has anyone seen detailed plans? The station really needs work imo..

New Limerick bus station to get green light?(


I said I'd reply to this in the new thread. Below is an article from last Thursdays Limerick Leader on the oral hearing at City Hall.


Bus station relocation mooted in €5.5M plan

By Anne Sheridan

A contemporary two-storey bus station could be built to the left of Colbert Station within the next two years, if the €5.5 million development is given the green light by An Bord Pleanala.

Following the oral hearing by the board this week in City Hall, the national planning authority expect they will come to a decision on the development within a maximum of two months.

The application by Bus Eireann to rejuvenate the train station was partly in response to the Department of Transports sectoral plan 2006. However it is understood that Bus Eireann may also be reliant on the Department of Transport for a portion of the cost of the development which could determine when construction would begin.

Under the plans, the bus station would move from the right to the left hand side of Colbert Station (as viewed from Parnell Street) and the existing bus station would be converted into a car park.

A landscaped garden is planned for the front of the station, where a car park is currently situated. An internal walkway would also connect the rail and bus station.

However Philip Jones, deputy planning officer with An Bord Pleanala questioned the necessity to have a Bus Eireann logo on the walkway, as he said the redesigned bus station was intended to be “sub-servient to Colbert Station and this was outlined to Bus Eireann as one of the main concerns regarding the development.

Michael Brady, Pascall & Watson Architects told the board: “We have set the building back as far as we can do while maintaining the link. He said the current station “is pretty much deficient” in relation to catering to the needs of those with visual and mobility impairments, but the new station should improve this situation.

He said studies had shown that it would not be possible to have a bus station where the loading bus bays are currently situated, and therefore, the location to the left of the station was identified as the best possible location.

However, under the plans, public car parking would be reduced from 330 spaces to 250 spaces.

Kieran Reeves, planning officer with Limerick City Council, said he regretted that Bus Eireann did not contact Iarnrod Eireann’s heritage officer in relation to Colbert Station whose heritage, Mr Reeves said, must be protected.

Mr. Jones also noted that the railings in front of Colbert Station were not factored into the model presented to the board, even though these must also be protected.

He said the board would also prefer that proposed bus shelters at the front of the station would not be used for advertising.



So it seems that the effect of the new development on the Protected Structure was a major concern for City Hall in addition to the possibility of the new layout impacting on the proposed orbital route. If this is approved I wonder will the finance be available to fund the project? Next Tuesdays Budget will give us an insight into the Governments commitment to continued infrastructural investment in these lean times!


History of Colbert Station (NIAH)

Colbert Station was constructed as the terminus of the Waterford and Limerick railway line for the Great Southern and Western Railway Company. Aristocratic and middle class interests prevented it from being constructed in the more fashionable parts of the City and it was thus built at the edge of the Victorian part of the Limerick City. It was designed by Sancton Wood (1815-1886), architect of Heuston Station, Dublin.

Designed in a restrained classical idiom, the building was designed to achieve a maximum presence on the street from which it is set back quite dramatically. Befitting its public use, the structure is faced with fine carved limestone detailing which is testimony to the craftsmanship and skill involved in its execution. The architectural qualities of the structure are somewhat marred by the front site car park and replacement metal railings which encloses the site from Parnell Street. The station is named after Con Colbert, the County Limerick man executed in 1916 following the Easter Rising.

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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby PoxyShamrock » Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:25 pm

Aswell as the Redevelopment of Colbert Station, I think the whole Parnell St/Davis St area needs rejuvenation to be kept in line with this development.
It really is one of the most depressing areas of the city and doesn't resemble a gateway one bit.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby shanekeane » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:51 pm

Definitely. I'd recommend building a huge wall to one side so we don't have to look at the poor people; and bulldozing Parnell Street so that those filthy foreigners with their insufficiently plasticky signage realize that they shouldn't be selling goods at bargain prices so close to the city centre.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:17 pm

shanekeane wrote:Definitely. I'd recommend building a huge wall to one side so we don't have to look at the poor people; and bulldozing Parnell Street so that those filthy foreigners with their insufficiently plasticky signage realize that they shouldn't be selling goods at bargain prices so close to the city centre.


Language like “filthy foreigners” is a form incitement to hatred buddy! Stop polluting the Limerick threads!

Do take the trouble and read the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby darkman » Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:31 pm

The N7 Southern ring road and N20 are to be redesignated motorways under the latest list of reclassifications published by the NRA. Transport.ie for more
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby shanekeane » Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:38 am

CologneMike wrote:Language like “filthy foreigners” is a form incitement to hatred buddy! Stop polluting the Limerick threads!

Do take the trouble and read the Prohibition of Incitement To Hatred Act, 1989.


Well if my use of the term "filthy foreigners" wasn't so obviously ironic then I might have something to worry about CologneMike. Now if we could only purge the forum of stupidity then we'd be making progress.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:04 pm

shanekeane wrote:Well if my use of the term "filthy foreigners" wasn't so obviously ironic then I might have something to worry about CologneMike.


No, more like ridicule and sarcasm to be exact!

shanekeane wrote:Now if we could only purge the forum of stupidity then we'd be making progress.


Irony pure!
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:41 pm

darkman wrote:The N7 Southern ring road and N20 are to be redesignated motorways under the latest list of reclassifications published by the NRA. Transport.ie for more


This has been mooted for some time now and its good to see it moving forward. It is a sensible move by the NRA as both these roads are easily up to motorway standard and the new motorway regulations will also protect them from inappropriate developments and lax planning controls. l presume the 2nd phase of the ring road will also be re-classified when complete!

N7 Brochure

N20 Brochure
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:21 pm

Limerick may get first park-and-ride area at Annacotty

By Nick Rabbitts

DEVELOPERS are planning to construct a multi-million euro park-and-ride facility in Annacotty that would give parking space for more than 130 vehicles.

Work on the Dublin road site near Finnegan's pub could commence as early as next year after Finbar Murphy and David Smiddy announced their intention to seek planning permission for the site from Limerick County Council.

The work would provide for the demolition of an existing single storey house – Montrose on the Dublin road – to be replaced by a two-storey park and ride facility, with 136 car parking spaces, as well as various facilities for customers including a restaurant, a garden centre, a tourist information centre, and a play area.

The plans, which would transform part of Annacotty, also include provision for a bank and a chemist and a games area.

Cllr Mary Jackman welcomed the development, but called on Bus Eireann to provide a more regular bus service from the area to the city.

"People are questioning the need for bus lanes (in Castletroy), because the bus services are not regular enough. There is no point in a park-and-ride facility if it is not constructively used. The bus services need to be more regular," she told the Limerick Leader.

As the Limerick Leader went to press, neither Mr Murphy nor Mr Smiddy was available for comment.


As Cllr Jackman says, Bus Eireann will need to seriously improve their service if this proposed park and ride is to be viable!

This application also provides for what is essentially a mini motorway services station. As part of an overall national programme, the NRA are proposing a motorway services station at a yet to be identified location on the new M7 corridor between Limerick and Nenagh. Im not sure what they will make of this proposal!

One thing is certain though, a development like this (if approved) will not help traffic flow on the disastrous Annacotty interchange!:rolleyes:

08/1912

Demolition of an existing single storey house namely Montrose & the construction of 1). A 2 stroey Park & Ride facility providing 136 car parking spaces 2). A motorist services facility with a 2 storey amenity building consisting of ground floor containing a general entrance & circulation area, 24 hour toilet facility, a convenience retail unit, restaurant, cafe, financial services unit, a pharmacy & a plant room. The first floor contains a circulation/seating area, a games area, indoor play area, outdoor play area, business centre, tourist information, toilet area & staff facilities with site facilities to include petrol filling station with 6 pumps for light vehicles & 2 pumps for HGVs & associated in line fuelling, parking for 117 cars & 10 motorbikes, 1 automatic car wash, 2 landscaped picnic areas, 2 waste/recycling areas & a segregated parking area providing parking for 7 coaches & 17 HGVs. 3) A 2 storey garden centre b uilding with 25 parking spaces, service yard & external plant & hard landscaping displayarea. 4). ESB substation & switchroom. 5). Quick service/valet facility with 5 parking spaces. 6). Temporary advertising signage. 7). All ancillary site development works, landscaping & external lighting. 8). Amendments to existing site entrance to Finnegan's on the R445, Dublin Road

"Montrose", Carrowkeel, Annacotty.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:59 pm

Limerick City Council's no to bus lane :mad:

Limerick Leader By Nick Rabbitts

CONTROVERSIAL plans to introduce a bus lane from Raheen to the city centre appears unlikely to go ahead after city members unanimously accepted a proposal calling on the local authority to "withdraw and delete" the plans.

At yesterday afternoon's council meeting, the proposal put forward by Independent councillor Pat Kennedy that the city authority reject plans for bus lanes to be introduced in Ballinacurra Road, O'Connell Avenue and Mulgrave Street into Roche's Street, was passed without comment by city manager Tom Mackey, who had previously said he would use his executive powers to pass the plan.

Several city councillors have long campaigned for the rejection of the bus lanes, citing fears over safety and increased congestion.

Cllr Pat Kennedy, who proposed the motion in the city chamber, said:

"The provision of bus lanes would be totally out of character with the area, and as they contemplate only a short stretch of road, are totally unnecessary. These routes are very narrow, and amongst the oldest thoroughfares in Limerick."

Fine Gael Cllr Maria Byrne, seconded the motion.

Labour's Cllr Joe Leddin said he believes these routes are much better suited to bus lanes and said the rejection of the bus lanes in the other parts of the city are "a victory for common sense".

See also Limerick City Council’s Green Routes
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby PoxyShamrock » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:18 pm

It's funny actually, but if you look at the maps, the Co Council have all their bus lanes built.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby Tuborg » Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:29 am

The emerging preferred route corridor for the proposed M20 Limerick Cork motorway can be viewed here.

The project is being divided into 3 sections:

  • Blarney - Mallow
  • Mallow - Croom
  • Croom- Attyflin


The only section likely to be completed in the near future is Mallow to Croom, however this is definitely the most urgent as it would take out the worst stretch of the existing N20. It is hoped construction could start in 2010.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby jpsartre » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:28 pm

I know this is a plannng forum but since the city council (with the connivance of adjacent councils) are determined to make a hames of the QBC's I thought I would throw out some of my own ideas regarding light rail. A feasibility study for LRT in Limerick was promised in the programme for govt. but everyone in govt. (except the impotent Greens) has mysteriously forgotten about it. It wouldn't cost the earth to carry one out.

I won't go on about the route details, only to point out that all lines start at the train station, and this should be an absolute no brainer to anyone vaguely familiar with the principles of good urban planning and simililarly all terminate at suburban P&R's.

Limerick has the population to support LRT but the population patterns around it are a mess. The question isn't if but when in my view and no amount of farting around with bus corridors is going to enable Limerick to become the Gateway city the NSS says it must become if the west of the courntry is to develop properly. A plan should be drawn up and integrated with the city center strategic plan and the regeneration plans and favoured routes protected from future development. Certain locations can then be zoned for transit oriented developmet as for example the Hyde rd. area. The transit routes on my plan can for the most part be accomodated with exising surface rights of way, thus minimizing costs.

There are issues w/ the existing rail lines that limit their use in a suburban context. But again provided the stops are limited in number and passing loops are built in, these limitations can be overcome.

The Corbally side does not have a population density to support a light rail line or a stop on the existing line but I put one in anyway because peak period traffic in Corbally is horrendous. The waterbus idea has more going for it especially at peak times. Free parking as part of a package of incenitves & disincentives could make this work but other pickup points at the Irish estates and shannon banks would also help if they were feasible. The UL waterbus has already been mooted. A lock at the Park bridge though would slow traffic down considerably and I don't have an answer to that one.

You can get back to your roads now fellas I've made my speech and spoke my mind ...for the time being..
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby CologneMike » Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:12 pm

When you write about LRT for Limerick city I presume you would be talking about Trams like the LUAS in Dublin? I wonder would a population of just a 100.000 be enough to justify such a system?

Ideally the trams should criss-cross the city centre and I can only think of three destinations for them to serve i.e.

Route: Parkway (Valley) S.C. / University / Plassey Technological park.
Route: Crescent S.C. / Regional Hospital / Raheen Industrial estate.
Route: Ennis road / Maternity / Gaelic Grounds / Coonagh S.C.

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In my opinion to run the city trams on the existing rail network would not achieve much.

  • Colbert station is not central enough to the city centre.
  • It is a cul-de-sac station.
  • The university / Plassey Technological park are not served by it.
  • The Ennis road area / Coonagh S.C. are also not served by it.
  • The existing rail network runs only on the peripheral of the Raheen area.


That would mean to me that the trams would have to share the roads / streets with other vehicles to service these routes.

The street trams would then have the same congestion problems as the buses and worse when some incident blocks their way, it cannot overtake it like a bus can.

I think a bus system with QBCs would serve Limerick city better.
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Re: Limerick Transport

Postby jpsartre » Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:45 pm

Light Rail Transit (LRT) is a sort of catch-all that might include elements of an on street tram system but may also include dedicated tunnels, elevated track sections etc. But yes I do mean something like the Luas only less ambitious in terms of civil engineering work to keep costs down. Something like what GLUAS propose http://www.gluas.com/ for Galway maybe. The last I heard around March this year, Noel Dempsey said there would be a feasibility study undertaken, beginning April, and the final report would be published in the middle of next year, so its a live issue as far as I'm concerned and deserves some attention.

As the GLUAS website points out Valenciennes in Northern France has a population of only 42,000 yet has embraced LRT and opened its first line in '06 . More and more small to medium sized cities are looking at LRT, even cities that moth-balled tram systems in the 70's. This ins not only because of their unrivalled payload capacities but because its become increasingly apparent that no other public transport system, even bus rapid transit systems (BRT) are able to attract the ridership of light rail. (In one North American study I came across from 2002 BRT systems (which are superior to QBCs) only succeeded in attracting 33% of their projected ridership whereas LRTs attracted 122% of theirs). That said I believe CIE were hoping to try BRT in Limerick and I'd like to see it in action. How theyll do this now though I don't know as the council is not amenable to bus lanes in the city. They're not a cheap alternative to LRT either http://www.politics.ie/transport/36340-light-rail-vs-bus-4.html

As I already pointed out the problem with Limerick is not the size of the population per se but the distribution of the population throughout the city. The population densities are probably too low to support a LUAS at this juncture which is why I'm not holding my breath about the feasibily study. The Colbert station area is a case in point. Railway stations are the heartbeat of a ciy. No large town can function without a properly functioning railway station. But look at the area around Colbert! The Hyde rd/Carey rd. area ought to be high density mixed use development attracting business into the city by now. Bear in mind most of this land is owned or controlled by the local authority and other public instituions. Instead it's a wasteland of shoddy public housing and dereliction. The one good thing about this though is planners have a blank canvas to plan something like a LRT terminus on publicly owned land right next to the station. And thats why I'm in favour of producing a plan now before this land is finally sold off to the highest bidder for some short sighted gain.

I wasn't suggesting running trams on the existing lines actually. I was thinking how a rail station at Moyress would work (this was included in the draft regeneration plan for Moyress) and figured in order for it to be viable there would need to be a regular service to the station which the Ennis-Limerick service could not fulfil since it only runs 8? times a day etc. The only solution to my mind would be a suburban rail service using DMUs with passing loops and additional stops to make it viable. This was just one solution in addition to waterbuses to help alleviate traffic and provide people with a viable public transport option in this part of the city.

The routes you suggest are much the same as the ones I put in the diagram except I'd probably opt for the alternative western route taking in Moylish rather than the Gaelic Grouds say. The city center is well served by these routes even interfering at one point with the planned orbital traffic flow system so I'm not sure what you getting at here.The more important point I felt was that all 3 lines should terminate w/ P&R faciliities at the edge of the city to soak up incoming traffic and terminate at the station (or vice versa). Combined with an improving commuter rail service to the city I think Limerick city centre & suburbia would open up completely and could become a model for sustainable urban public transport in Ireland.
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