well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:37 pm

Limerick boat club plans thrown a lifeline by councillors (Limerick Leader) 27 January 2009

By Anne Sheridan

CITY councillors have made a near unanimous decision to remove Limerick Boat Club, which dates back to 1870, from the list of protected structures at City Hall last night, paving the way for the development to proceed.

Planners at Limerick City Council were also urging councillors to treat the multi-million plans to rehouse the club favourably.

"I recommend that the City Council approve that a decision to grant permission be made at the Limerick Boat Club site at Wellesley Pier," stated John Field, director of service, in a letter to councillors last week.

In council correspondence, Mr Field also recommended that the City Council vote in favour of deleting the site from the record of protected structures.

The vote to remove the building was passed by 13 votes to two, with Mayor of Limerick John Gilligan and fellow Independent Cllr Kathleen Leddin opposing the motion.

Independent Cllr Pat Kennedy initially called for both votes to be adjourned for one month to allow for a presentation to City Hall from the joint developers, the Boat Club and Fordmount Developments.

However, following a brief recess councillors decided to take just one motion and deliberate on another aspect to the plans this Friday, January 30.

The €20m plans for the site will be given a final push this Friday morning, when developer Michael Daly will discuss the development. The plans are to include a new state-of-the-art home for Limerick Boat Club, offices, a cafe/bar and restaurant on the upper level overlooking the river.

Three quarters of the 17 city councillors will then have to vote in favour of a material contravention to the City Development Plan to allow commercial uses on a land zoned open space.

Labour Cllr Joe Leddin, a member of Limerick Boat Club, said "if it wasn't delisted it (the development] would have been dead in the water." Cllr Leddin said he is optimistic about the outcome of Friday's meeting, and believes it will be a chance for councillors to address contentious issues, such as the scale and design of the "iconic" glass and steel building.

Mr Daly told this newspaper: "We would have to regard the meeting as very encouraging. It was a very positive step and we are encouraged by it."

Nineteen submissions were received by City Hall regarding the development, including several objections to the plans. A further seven submissions were received outside the planning time-frame and could not be considered.

Fears over two Limerick city hotels (Limerick Leader)

Trading difficulties for Michael Daly’s (Fordmount) Castletroy Park Hotel / Marriott Hotel
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:52 pm

foinse wrote:Bank of Ireland O'connell street is finally getting it's facelift. I was speaking to the foreman putting up the scaffolding yesterday, he told me that the money has been allocated for it for years but they never did anything about it.....also it means that they're not going to run out of cash half way through


Bank of Ireland ~ 125 O'Connell Street

Architects: Healy & Partners

Change of elevations, constituting the removal of existing facades and construction of remodelled facades, as well as provision of an additional ATM unit and provision of signage elements to the branch.

Image 1: O’Connell Street Façade Image 2: Bedford Row Façade
Attachments
BOI_OConnellSt.jpg
BOI_OConnellSt.jpg (90.08 KiB) Viewed 2678 times
BOI_BedfordRow.jpg
BOI_BedfordRow.jpg (86.82 KiB) Viewed 2674 times
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:18 am

Finally. It completes the block facing onto O'Connell Street in an elegant way, making it one of the most magnificent and architecturally significant blocks of its kind in Ireland.
shanekeane
Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 1:41 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:23 pm

colognemike wrote:limerick Boat Club Plans Thrown A Lifeline By Councillors (limerick Leader) 27 January 2009

By Anne Sheridan

City Councillors Have Made A Near Unanimous Decision To Remove limerick Boat Club, Which Dates Back To 1870, From The list Of Protected Structures At City Hall Last Night, Paving The Way For The Development To Proceed.

Planners At Limerick City Council Were Also Urging Councillors To Treat The Multi-million Plans To Rehouse The Club Favourably.

"i Recommend That The City Council Approve That A Decision To Grant Permission Be Made At The Limerick Boat Club Site At Wellesley Pier," Stated John Field, Director Of Service, In A Letter To Councillors Last Week.

In Council Correspondence, Mr Field Also Recommended That The City Council Vote In Favour Of Deleting The Site From The Record Of Protected Structures.

The Vote To Remove The Building Was Passed By 13 Votes To Two, With Mayor Of Limerick John Gilligan And Fellow Independent Cllr Kathleen Leddin Opposing The Motion.

Independent Cllr Pat Kennedy Initially Called For Both Votes To Be Adjourned For One Month To Allow For A Presentation To City Hall From The Joint Developers, The Boat Club And Fordmount Developments.

However, Following A Brief Recess Councillors Decided To Take Just One Motion And Deliberate On Another Aspect To The Plans This friday, January 30.

The €20m Plans For The Site Will Be Given A Final Push This Friday Morning, When Developer Michael Daly Will Discuss The Development. The Plans Are To Include A New State-of-the-art Home For Limerick Boat Club, Offices, A Cafe/bar And Restaurant On The Upper Level Overlooking The River.

Three Quarters Of The 17 City Councillors Will Then Have To Vote In Favour Of A Material Contravention To The City Development Plan To Allow Commercial Uses On A Land Zoned Open Space.

Labour Cllr Joe Leddin, A Member Of Limerick Boat Club, Said "if It Wasn't Delisted It (the Development] Would Have Been Dead In The Water." Cllr Leddin Said He Is Optimistic About The Outcome Of Friday's Meeting, And Believes It Will Be A Chance For Councillors To Address Contentious Issues, Such As The Scale And Design Of The "iconic" Glass And Steel Building.

Mr Daly Told This Newspaper: "we Would Have To Regard The Meeting As Very Encouraging. It Was A Very Positive Step And We Are Encouraged By It."

Nineteen Submissions Were Received By City Hall Regarding The Development, Including Several Objections To The Plans. A Further Seven Submissions Were Received Outside The Planning Time-frame And Could Not Be Considered.

fears Over Two Limerick City Hotels (limerick Leader)

Trading Difficulties For Michael Daly’s (fordmount) Castletroy Park Hotel / Marriott Hotel


More Proof That Our City Is Governed By A Crowd Of Gob****es!!!!! And That Money Is More Important Than Our Heritage
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby demolition man » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:02 pm

Initially I was very much against the new limerick rowing club proposal but apon seeing the above images I've changed my mind.I cant argue with the proposal as i think it will open the shannon up to the public and will make the river once again feel more inclusive with the city.It looks also as though it can become an iconic building which is something limerick really needs right now.This forum tends to knock almost every new building being propsed for limerick and for a good reason to as many have no architectural merit at all.But in this case i think the critism is harsh juding by it's enevitable benefits to the city. As a comparison it seems a good decision by our inept councilors for once unlike the tripe opera centre that was given the all clear which will see a further destruction of historical limerick.
demolition man
Member
 
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:46 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:48 pm

Dreamstate wrote:
More Proof That Our City Is Governed By A Crowd Of Gob****es!!!!! And That Money Is More Important Than Our Heritage


Dreamstate, very similar developers built Sarsfield (Wellesley) Bridge and the floating dock and they did so for purely commercial reasons. I would even say we lost a lot more heritage because of poverty than due to commercial activity. More importantly we lost a lot of our population since 1856 due economic decline as well!

Wellesley Bridge Toll Charges 1856

FOR every horse, Mule or Ass, laden or unladen, and not drawing, the sum of one Penny. :p

FOR every . . . . . .

FOR every . . . . . .

FOR every Passenger passing over said Bridge, the Sum of One halfpenny, for each and every time passing except such Person or Persons as shall be driven in any Coach, Chariot, Berlin Chaise, Chair or Calash, and the Driver or Drivers thereof, and the Footman or Footmen, Servant, or Servants thereof, standing behind the same, and except the Driver or Drivers of any cart, car or Waggon and any person riding on any Horse, Mule or Ass.

By Order

John Roche
Secretary to Limerick Harbour Commissioners.
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:42 am

CologneMike wrote:Dreamstate, very similar developers built Sarsfield (Wellesley) Bridge and the floating dock and they did so for purely commercial reasons. I would even say we lost a lot more heritage because of poverty than due to commercial activity. More importantly we lost a lot of our population since 1856 due economic decline as well!


It really surprises me that Limerick City Council can take the whole Opera block out of the architectural conservation area and get away with it .Now they are removing a building thats on the National Heritage Inventory of Protected structures while everyone sits back and says ' its ok because the developments are gonna create employment'......Why not just build on Pery Square altogether? Im sure we could easily get a 40 storey building on one of those derelict old Georgian city blocks that are falling down!!!!!! Interesting also that the only piece of Green area in the background of Mr.Dalys office PR photograph in Riverpoint is the boat club site...I guess we should be thankful that the Hunt Museum green area wasnt clearly visible from his window
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:36 pm

....
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby justnotbothered » Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:55 am

The problem with democracy is it allows people like Joe Leddin get elected.
justnotbothered
Member
 
Posts: 170
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:52 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:36 am

On a separate matter...are political donations still allowed ? Then again , I guess a good accountant can find ways of hiding them for benefactors ;)
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:08 pm

Here we go.

I always knew our highly competent city councillors would do the right thing. Oh no wait, they havent!:rolleyes:


Go ahead for €20 million development of Limerick Boat Club (Live95fm)

The way has been cleared for a 20 million euro redevelopment of Limerick Boat Club.

Limerick City Councillors have voted to rezone Wellesley Pier at a specially convened meeting in City Hall today.

Earlier this week the current Limerick Boat Club structures were de-listed.

The Club President, Dermot Moloney has thanked the councillors for supporting the development which remains subject to certain conditions.

He says the new facilities will be important in revitalising the club`s popularity.

Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:29 am

I am so so upset by all this! Just a week ago 5-6 councillors were openly against the ( Boat Club ) scheme ....why the sudden change of mind??? Ladies and Gentlemen , This city is in big trouble and by electing these apes we are all responsible :(
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby shanekeane » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:01 pm

Dreamstate wrote:I am so so upset by all this! Just a week ago 5-6 councillors were openly against the ( Boat Club ) scheme ....why the sudden change of mind??? Ladies and Gentlemen , This city is in big trouble and by electing these apes we are all responsible :(


I hear that in tribute to this momentous decision, they're going to put a small sculpture of a brown manila envelope in front of the entrance.
shanekeane
Member
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu May 31, 2007 1:41 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Dreamstate » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:55 am

I dont think that many names will fit on a Manilla envelope !:)
Dreamstate
Member
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:00 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:30 pm

Dreamstate, seriously I have the impression that you seem to have more nostalgic social attachments ;) to the red brick boat club than heritage concerns of the bridge itself. You seem to resent in general the changing face of the city by labelling developers (accountant) or councillors as crooks.

I may be wrong or at worst naïve but isn’t this “boat club” proposal the result of a “think-tank” get together by a group of individuals (Shannon Development, UL, local Architects etc, etc.) who did a little bit of brain-storming some two years or so ago?

If I remember correctly the aim was to identify projects (iconic or otherwise) that would benefit the city. Therefore, it is my understanding that Michael Daly’s Fordmount is just a private vehicle to make one of them happen now?

Sure they are no “angels” involved in the construction industry but your innuendos that back-handers were needed to force this proposal through the city hall is over the top! Unless of course you know something that we don’t.

Your critic that the proposal is a just commercial, is one where I don’t have a problem with. Best example is the UL’s Concert Hall or Thomond Park both of them have to pay their own keep. This will apply to the proposed Boat Club building too. All three will play their role in bringing visitors (cultural / sport) to the city.

I would agree with you that an opportunity was lost for not organising an architectural competition for the boat club. These developer led proposals don’t cater for that. This shows again to me that our city, run by three local authorities is lacking one “coherent vision” for one city. Thankfully concerned groups involved in that “think-tank” are not content in passively waiting for the Minister of Environment to solve the “three-council” issue but forcing “vision with action” now to fill this void.

I really hope Michael Daly delivers a high quality contemporary building that will complement the fine cut-stone bridge. If he does not deliver, he will experience a very uncomfortable existence in his home town for years to come . . . . . . . .

Image

The Vision of a Revitalised Limerick

Peter Coyne / Edward Walsh

The Fundamental Vision

Arising from the 20 interviews with a selection of leading figures in the wider city area, a uniformity of expression was evident concerning the present state of the city and the fundamental or intuitive vision of its future:

What Urban Limerick Looks Like
• Retail moving out to suburbs – retail values falling;
• Nobody manages the entirety of the city: it’s divided up between 3 competing local authorities;
• Depopulating and looking a bit derelict;
• It’s going nowhere – even though it could be great;
• Little development compared to other cities;
• No joined up thinking – or doing;
• Economy hanging on a shrinking base;
• Three huge concentrations of inner city deprivation;
• City centre dragged down by social and economic imbalance;
• No heart to the city;
• Absence of vibrancy and culture;
• The river could be so much more;
• Hardly any tourism – very little to attract them;
• Business areas abandoned after work;
• The bigger city has no leadership;
• The city is not embraced by the people – they don’t own it;
• Not even a cinema;
• Terrible reputation for crime that’s probably undeserved but these things are self-fulfilling;
• There is no vision

How Urban Limerick Should Look
• A growing city for the region - could be a 250,000 metropolitan population;
• A proper city with ambitious and accountable government with a can-do attitude;
• A honeypot for inward investment – a counterbalance to the overheated east;
• A bustling and exciting waterfront – an iconic heart to the city;
• Vibrancy in the city centre – 18-24 hour city;
• A critical mass of tourist attractions;
• Family-friendly city with the homes and amenities that encourage people with economic choice to live in the city;
• The retail centre for the region;
• The university an inextricable element of the city brand - connecting socially and culturally with the city as well as economically,
• New economic activities – a knowledge industry growth centre – renewed synergies with a growing 3rd and 4th level;
• Excellent transportation infrastructure and interconnectivity with other Atlantic cities – people able to commute between them;
• Docklands and King’s Island new and wonderful mixed use extensions to the city centre;
• Several big civic pride icons – buildings and places to put us on the world stage;
• Citizens taking pride and caring for their city;
• Leadership;
• A city known for arts and culture;
• A city with a vision
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby KeepAnEyeOnBob » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:40 pm

It would be better to have no building at all, not even the nice little red-brick clubhouse, than have the monstrosity that they are seriously trying to get built there. Even bare concrete rather than grass on the site would be preferable as an eyesore, at least it would only be obvious if you looked over the side of the bridge.
KeepAnEyeOnBob
Member
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:11 pm
Location: Limerick

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:57 pm

€60m conference centre plan rejected

GORDON DEEGAN Mon, Feb 02, 2009

A PROPOSED €60 million conference centre for the midwest has been ruled out by Minister for Tourism Martin Cullen after an independent report questioned its economic benefit.

The report by economic consultants Indecon International, which has been published by Fáilte Ireland, concluded that the benefits of the centre “would be marginal at best”.

The decision not to proceed with the centre is a further blow to the midwest, following the closure last week of one of the region’s best-known hotels, the Castletroy Park Hotel in Limerick, with the loss of 130 jobs.

The study said the level of investment required for the conference centre would not be the best use of resources for the development of tourism in the region.

Other potential projects could represent “better value for money in economic terms,” the consultants found.

Mr Cullen said: “Having examined the report, I agree with its findings.”

The feasibility study was commissioned arising from a commitment in the programme for government in 2007.

It considered three possible locations for a conference centre – all in the Limerick area – and concluded that the centre could attract 6,955 additional tourists to the midwest every year.

In nine separate cost/benefit analysis scenarios, the report found that only three returned a positive net present value for the proposed project.

It evaluated the region’s strengths and weaknesses and stated that “the reliance on budget airlines as principal carriers to Shannon Airport is a disadvantage in terms of attracting corporate tourism and dominance by one airline may constrain new route development with other airlines”.

Limerick Chamber of Commerce chief executive Maria Kelly expressed disappointment with the Minister’s decision and the report’s conclusions.

The chamber has supported the idea of a conference centre for a number of years and she said: “The Limerick–Shannon area is perfectly situated as the mid-point along the Atlantic coast for a conference centre and it also has a large hotel infrastructure to serve.

“The landscape has changed since the report was complete with the return of the ShannonHeathrow service, which gives Shannon access to two international hubs, while the customs and borders protection facility for Shannon has been announced.”

She also argued there was a need for “a little joined-up thinking” in light of those recent developments and called for the proposal to be “looked at again”.

Clare TD Joe Carey (FG) said yesterday: “If we are to take the stated aim of balanced regional development to its natural conclusion, then a state of the art conference facility for the midwest should form part of that strategy.”

© 2009 The Irish Times


Pity that they blew € 83 million on a € 10 million sewerage pipe :mad:
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby NevilleNeville » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:28 am

CologneMike wrote:Dreamstate, seriously I have the impression that you seem to have more nostalgic social attachments ;) to the red brick boat club than heritage concerns of the bridge itself. You seem to resent in general the changing face of the city by labelling developers (accountant) or councillors as crooks.

I may be wrong or at worst naïve but isn’t this “boat club” proposal the result of a “think-tank” get together by a group of individuals (Shannon Development, UL, local Architects etc, etc.) who did a little bit of brain-storming some two years or so ago?

If I remember correctly the aim was to identify projects (iconic or otherwise) that would benefit the city. Therefore, it is my understanding that Michael Daly’s Fordmount is just a private vehicle to make one of them happen now?

Sure they are no “angels” involved in the construction industry but your innuendos that back-handers were needed to force this proposal through the city hall is over the top! Unless of course you know something that we don’t.

Your critic that the proposal is a just commercial, is one where I don’t have a problem with. Best example is the UL’s Concert Hall or Thomond Park both of them have to pay their own keep. This will apply to the proposed Boat Club building too. All three will play their role in bringing visitors (cultural / sport) to the city.

I would agree with you that an opportunity was lost for not organising an architectural competition for the boat club. These developer led proposals don’t cater for that. This shows again to me that our city, run by three local authorities is lacking one “coherent vision” for one city. Thankfully concerned groups involved in that “think-tank” are not content in passively waiting for the Minister of Environment to solve the “three-council” issue but forcing “vision with action” now to fill this void.

I really hope Michael Daly delivers a high quality contemporary building that will complement the fine cut-stone bridge. If he does not deliver, he will experience a very uncomfortable existence in his home town for years to come . . . . . . . .

Image



The big issue with the Boat Club decision is the fact that the majority vote made by councillors, with no formal training in architectural conservation, to remove a building from the list of protected structures, demeans the process of deeming builidngs worthy of being recorded as protected structures in the first place. Lets not forget that the building was included in the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage for Limerick City less than two years ago. If it was deemed significant enough to be listed at that point this decision seems all the more ridiculous. I could accept if there was a forum or committee decision by people with a track record in conservation but councillors making these decisions is a mockery of the legislation that was introduced to protect our heritage in the first place.

The fact as to buildings being commercial or not is not really the issue but that the other builidngs referred to i.e. Thomond Park and the Concert Hall are public buildings whereas the proposal for this site is primarily offices with the exception of the new boat club. A new public building might make the decision easier to swallow but not another office block.

Finally I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a quality contemporary builidng both due to the submission to the council thus far and also looking at the developer's previous track record for producing what might be solid commercial architecture but hardly inspiring artworks. The local authority had the option of insisting on an architectural competition for the site to replace the heritage it deemed fit to be removed but rejected it. Seems like Skibereen has more progressive thinking than Limerick these days!
NevilleNeville
Member
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:41 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:53 pm

CologneMike wrote:Pity that they blew € 83 million on a € 10 million sewerage pipe :mad:


Id forgotten about that. The amount of money that was squandered on infrastructural projects over the "boom years" due to sheer incompetence is absolutely staggering. Of course back then, the attitude was "ah sure theres plenty more where that came from!"

We could certainly do with a slice of that €83 million now!


Gateway Innovation Fund deferral hits city orbital traffic system

Limerick City Council is looking at other ways to fund the proposed orbital route around Limerick city, following the elimination of funding for the project under the Gateway Innovation Fund.

Corbally residents who showed up for the first consultation meeting on the development of Limerick city last week were told by senior planner Kieran Reeves that funding from the scheme has been reduced to “nil”.

Limerick’s allocation of the €40 million funding expected to be distributed to gateway cities as part of the National Spatial Strategy had not been announced for 2009, but the council had earmarked its allocation for the orbital route.

The official line from Government is that funding from the GIF has been deferred leaving local authorities across the country with no choice but to defer capital infrastructure projects.

The pedestrianisation of O Connell Street was also due to be funded under the scheme but the money is not required until next year.

The pedestrianisation of Bedford Row, Thomas Street and Baker Place was funded by an urban renewal scheme which was replaced by the Gateway Innovation Fund. Officials at City Hall are confident that money will be found elsewhere to fund the orbital route and the project will not be unduly delayed.

Meanwhile, the public has been invited to make submissions on how they would like to see their locality and their city grow and develop at a series of consultation meetings across the city in the coming weeks.

The first meeting took place in Scoil Ide, Corbally. Residents who attended were told that the boundary division in Corbally was a serious issue when making decisions for the area. Decisions by Clare County Council in Corbally, Co Clare impact on any decisions made by the City Council in the Corbally area within the city boundary.

Mayor John Gilligan told the meeting that Limerick city has “three different retail strategies, three different housing strategies.” “Other cities have one, we have three,” he said, in reference to the city, county and Clare county councils.

© Limerick Leader


This is just pathetic really. The City Council announced plans for the upgrading of O Connell Street and William Street as far back as 2001. Yet here we are almost 8 years on and only 2 city centre streets have been completed.

Fair enough, Bedford Row and Thomas Street have been completely transformed but the two principle city centre streets are still thoroughly miserable. I dont think its an exaggeration to say that they are an absolute embarrassment at this stage!:(

Where do the council believe they are going to be able to find the funds needed to finance these projects?
Attachments
O Connell Street Remodelling 3.jpg
O Connell Street Remodelling 3.jpg (58 KiB) Viewed 2681 times
O Connell Street Remodelling 2.jpg
O Connell Street Remodelling 2.jpg (59.53 KiB) Viewed 2679 times
William St Remodelling.jpg
William St Remodelling.jpg (75.59 KiB) Viewed 2680 times
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby vkid » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:30 am

Was it not always the case that O'Connell St and William Street would not be touched until the Tunnel was finished and a huge chunk of through traffic would be removed from the city centre. I always thought that was the plan?
vkid
Member
 
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:30 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:56 am

Not necessarily. Obviously the new pedestrianised zone between William Street and Roches Street cant be implemented until after the tunnel is opened in the Summer/Autumn of 2010. But this area (specifically the junction of Bedford Row/Thomas Street) is also to be the location for the proposed "central iconic feature", so it was always due to come on stream later than the other works.

There was very little stopping them from going ahead with the remainder of the work between Denmark Street and Mallow Street. I know hindsight is a great thing but the O Connell Street and William Street projects really should have been done while the grant money was flowing.

The City Council have given out numerous start-up dates over the last couple of years. Indeed in their Part 8 report on the remodelling plans, they stated that the O Connell Street/William Street improvements would begin in 2008!:confused:

As the citys main thoroughfare, O Connell Street is in an absolutely deplorable state, the pavement (amongst other things) is in a state of acute degeneration and the so called public lighting just isnt good enough at this stage. All in all, it deserves a lot better!
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby WelshinLimerick » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:49 pm

The O'C and William street public realm works are dependant on the Orbital Route as well as the Tunnel, which is designed to reduce traffic flow in the city centre streets. Bedford Row and Thomas Street were not so trafficked so were able to proceed.

I dont think that O'Connell street needs to be closed off anyway, a pedestrian friendly street would be far better. William Street and the City Quays are in the most need of TLC if you ask me, O'Connell street should not go ahead until proper money is available, even if thats 6-10 years.

By the way, does anyone know what material they are using to clad the new boatclub building?

I think brick would have been nice :eek:

On another note, anyone know what's going on at John's Square. Images would be nice :)
And what's happening on Clancy Strand?:confused:
WelshinLimerick
Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:43 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:17 pm

WelshinLimerick wrote:The O'C and William street public realm works are dependant on the Orbital Route as well as the Tunnel, which is designed to reduce traffic flow in the city centre streets. Bedford Row and Thomas Street were not so trafficked so were able to proceed.



The tunnel is a vital piece of infrastructure for the entire city and the orbital route is obviously important in terms of efficiently managing traffic flow within the city centre. However I dont buy into the suggestion that the remodelling works cannot procede until those projects are up and running. In the last few years, both O Connell Street in Dublin and Patrick Street in Cork (both heavily trafficed routes) underwent comprehensive remodelling jobs so I fail to see why we cant manage the same!

I dont think that O'Connell street needs to be closed off anyway, a pedestrian friendly street would be far better. William Street and the City Quays are in the most need of TLC if you ask me, O'Connell street should not go ahead until proper money is available, even if thats 6-10 years.


6-10 YEARS!:eek: Ah come off it, could you imagine the state of the place if it was left that long? This remodelling project is already long overdue, it needs to be done asap!

The quayside from Sarsfield Bridge to Shannon Bridge is in poor shape alright, its really shown up by the works that have been completed across the river on O Callaghan Strand especially.

Work was supposed to start last Autumn on this section but with all the cutbacks in funding, Im not sure what the current status is.

On another note, anyone know what's going on at John's Square. Images would be nice :)
And what's happening on Clancy Strand?:confused:


A boardwalk is being installed on Clancy Strand between the Treaty Stone and Curragour Falls. Posts about this and St John's Square can be found on page [url= http://www.archiseek.com/content/showth ... 46&page=90]
90[/url]
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby CologneMike » Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:11 am

NevilleNeville wrote:The big issue with the Boat Club decision is the fact that the majority vote made by councillors, with no formal training in architectural conservation, to remove a building from the list of protected structures, demeans the process of deeming builidngs worthy of being recorded as protected structures in the first place. Lets not forget that the building was included in the National Inventory of Architectural Heritage for Limerick City less than two years ago. If it was deemed significant enough to be listed at that point this decision seems all the more ridiculous. I could accept if there was a forum or committee decision by people with a track record in conservation but councillors making these decisions is a mockery of the legislation that was introduced to protect our heritage in the first place.


I certainly would agree with your point that this could set a negative precedent for removing other buildings in the future.

Then again how could a more significant building like “Jackson’s Turret” with some 300 years of heritage not deem to be good enough to be included in the NIAH in the first place, but only after when a planning application threatened its surroundings was it included.

What’s the story with the fine cut-stone quays (Bishop’s and Howley’s)? Are they listed? The City Council plans to roll out a boardwalk on top of them!

One could argue that this makes the NIAH look just as ridiculous and as well undermining its own standing?

The 17 public elected City Councillors have after a two year period of time, voted 15 to 2 in favour of delisting the club house. This democratic process can’t be rubbished just because the Councillors are not qualified Architects but I do hope that they have weighed up all the sides of the pros and cons in the interest of the city. You can’t expect them to be Tax consultants either when it comes to deciding the rates!

NevilleNeville wrote:The fact as to buildings being commercial or not is not really the issue but that the other builidngs referred to i.e. Thomond Park and the Concert Hall are public buildings whereas the proposal for this site is primarily offices with the exception of the new boat club. A new public building might make the decision easier to swallow but not another office block.


It was my understanding that the main thrust of this proposal were for . . . .

Proposals for the facility off Sarsfield Bridge are to coincide with Limerick city's regeneration programme and the 'riverside city' development and include a museum, coffee shops, tourist information services, facilities for the theatre and the arts as well as a new pedestrian bridge linking the facility to Harvey's Quay and up onto the newly pedestrianised Bedford Row. "Our objective is to take advantage of the current riverside city programme to improve our facilities, while at the same time securing the future of Limerick Boat Club on Sarsfield Bridge and thereby promoting the sport of rowing in Limerick for generations to come," said Dermot Moloney, president, Limerick Boat Club

Mr Daly added that he believes this development should "regenerate Limerick Boat Club" and believes it is a "joint venture", rather than a commercially driven project.

He said his "dream is to have a restaurant on the top floor and have people say that when they come to Limerick they must go the restaurant on the top floor." A coffee shop could also be located towards the front of the building, where people could overlook the River Shannon, but Mr Daly said he does not "want to dictate the use as it may fly in the face of the planning process."
Source Limerick Leader

NevilleNeville wrote:Finally I wouldn't hold out too much hope for a quality contemporary builidng both due to the submission to the council thus far and also looking at the developer's previous track record for producing what might be solid commercial architecture but hardly inspiring artworks. The local authority had the option of insisting on an architectural competition for the site to replace the heritage it deemed fit to be removed but rejected it. Seems like Skibereen has more progressive thinking than Limerick these days!


Sure, people would easily agree on what solid commercial architecture is, but to find a common census on inspiring artworks depends on the eye of the beholder.

Architect Sean McCann said their design takes its inspiration from "ship hulls, lightweight fabric sails, rowing oars and robust sea walls."

Image

Evaluating the contents of the NIAH?

If I dare ask, what were the merits for this modest clubhouse structure (c.100 year old) to make its way into NIAH in the first place? Why was the boat storage shed not included as well?

If we take a look at all the components of the bridge that are listed in the NIAH i.e. Sarsfield Bridge, Shannon Boat Club, 1916 Memorial, Limerick Boat Club, Floating Dock (Wellesley Pier and Harvey's Quay), Lock (Honan’s Quay) (click also additional images) and then assign to each structure a merit note lets say from 1 to 10. Then my subjective order of merit would shape out like this . . . .

Note 10: Sarsfield Bridge
Note 9: Floating dock (Wellesley Pier / Harvey’s Quay)
Note 9: Lock (Honan’s Quay)
Note 7: Shannon Boat Club House
Note 6: Memorial (1916 Rising)
Note 3: Limerick Boat Club House

Therefore in my opinion, my lowly merit note for the “Limerick Boat Club House” would be enough to justify the City Councils right to re-consider its importance in the interest of the city when comparing the benefits of the Fordmount’s proposal as against the heritage loss of the original clubhouse.

The real big issue for me is the potential damage this proposal can inflict on the character of the bridge / floating dock but not the loss of this clubhouse building!

Value wise, I think the city is being offered a good deal in that we are trading-in a “boat” here and getting a “ship” in return!

Image

Are we bold enough to risk change with this contemporary design with its proposed daily use to enhance Limerick’s finest structure?

[align=center]Or[/align]

Are we reckless enough to change forever with this contemporary design with its proposed daily use to debase Limerick’s finest structure?

Personally this is a hard one to call?
User avatar
CologneMike
Old Master
 
Posts: 1146
Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Re: well what about the developments popping up in the shannonside ?

Postby Tuborg » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:15 am

Just after noticing that RTE are currently screening a series about prominent Irish streets called "On the Street Where You Live."

Tonights programme (RTÉ One, 7.30pm) features O Connell Street and is said to include previously unseen footage of the Todds fire amongst other things.

Could be interesting!
Tuborg
Senior Member
 
Posts: 753
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 3:07 am

PreviousNext

Return to Ireland