Cork Transport

Re: Cork Transport

Postby PTB » Tue Jun 12, 2007 11:01 pm

I thought they were single carige trams though. Would the Cork ones not be in two segments like the Dublin Luas?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Spinal Tap » Wed Jun 13, 2007 7:27 am

PTB wrote:I remember people suggesting that a tram go down Patricks street. Surely that is impossible given the extremely acute bend at Daunt square?



Cork had an extensive Tram and Light Rail system before in the city centre in the 19th & 20th century.

Should not be a problem in the 21st.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby jungle » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:52 am

The Cork trams were pretty much the same as the ones still used in Hong Kong. They're shorter than normal, narrow gauge and double decker. That means they can take bends that are not practical for standard trams. In fact, the old Cork trams managed to operate to Sunday's Well, which makes the bend at Daunt Square seem pretty easy.

That said, I'd be opposed to a light rail system using Patrick St.

Also, if trams were ever to be brought in, the visual impact of overhead wires needs to be considered. I understand some modern tram systems can operate by charging up in outer suburban areas and then using this to operate the historical core of a city. That should be looked at if a system were to be put in place.

With the Greens having sold out on public transport in the programme for government, I wouldn't expect it any time soon though.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Spinal Tap » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:24 am

jungle wrote:The Cork trams were pretty much the same as the ones still used in Hong Kong. They're shorter than normal, narrow gauge and double decker. That means they can take bends that are not practical for standard trams. In fact, the old Cork trams managed to operate to Sunday's Well, which makes the bend at Daunt Square seem pretty easy.

That said, I'd be opposed to a light rail system using Patrick St.

Also, if trams were ever to be brought in, the visual impact of overhead wires needs to be considered. I understand some modern tram systems can operate by charging up in outer suburban areas and then using this to operate the historical core of a city. That should be looked at if a system were to be put in place.

With the Greens having sold out on public transport in the programme for government, I wouldn't expect it any time soon though.


Even if they brought them back as a tourist attraction and fully functioning for the City folk of Cork it would enhance the city.

I have seen some photographs of Cork with trams ( no car traffic of course) and they looked good.

Some of the former Communist Block Eastern European smaller cities have extensive Tram networks.

This is Celtic Tiger Ireland, Wealthiest Nation,Highest GDP etc.?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby jungle » Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:51 am

Spinal Tap wrote:This is Celtic Tiger Ireland, Wealthiest Nation,Highest GDP etc.?


You forgot the "allergic to spending on public services" part :rolleyes:
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Pug » Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:45 pm

MArtin Cullen gone from Transport ministry!! hurrah !! Noel Dempsey is new minister, at least its a change.

(off topic but dick roche also gone from cabinet excellent)
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:26 pm

QUOTE jungle:
“Also, if trams were ever to be brought in, the visual impact of overhead wires needs to be considered. I understand some modern tram systems can operate by charging up in outer suburban areas and then using this to operate the historical core of a city. That should be looked at if a system were to be put in place”.

:o Wires hanging off Joe Gavin’s and that airhead B.G’s folly on Patrick’s Street would help hide those reject scaffold poles that replaced the originals.


Quote Pug:
“off topic but dick roche also gone from cabinet excellent”

:mad: I am not a Greenie by ANY means, BUT that scumbag “Cock” Roche carried on the great Irish tradition of fucking with the electorate (signing ordres) hours before being told he is surplus to requirements.
(no wonder the guy was hated even by his own FF mafia)
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby PTB » Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:18 pm

kite wrote:QUOTE jungle:
(signing ordres) hours before being told he is surplus to requirements.
(no wonder the guy was hated even by his own FF mafia)


Kinda reminds me of how Hitler tried to blow everything up as the Allies moved in behind the retreating German army
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby MrX » Fri Jun 15, 2007 9:40 pm

I wouldn't be that worried about the overhead lines, there's always the Bordeaux approach. They have a system where the tram's powered by live rails that only go live when the tram's over them making them perfectly safe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bprYazLzkeU

They're a version of the same Alstom trams used in Dublin for Luas.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Jun 15, 2007 10:38 pm

Amsterdam has overhead lines for their trams. Looks perfectly fine.

A lot better than the mishmash of ESB and phone wires floating everywhere over here, anyway.

Get rid of the wires, replace them with overhead tram lines. Easy.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby MrX » Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:34 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimentation_par_Sol

That explains the cableless trams in Bordeaux. Very complex, and very expensive given it's for aesthetic reasons only.

I still don't think tastefully done tram cables are particularly ugly. The ESB cabling on many streets in many of our towns and cities are absolutely hideous messes.

You can add batteries to the trams too, so they can run cable-free for a KM or two then reconnect once out of the area.

E.g. this could be used to get trams through Dublin's College Green without wires.

Likewise, Cork could do that for the Patrick Street area.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby who_me » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:23 pm

Erm.. Can anyone explain this to me again?

We could invest the money in buses, which are flexible enough that they can be used on other routes as demand merits, whose routes can be extended or changed on a whim, which don't require the cost of installing and maintaining dedicated lanes/cables, which don't block the entire system if even one breaks down...

...or we could use trams because they're pretty. Apart from all the poles and cables we'd need to erect.

I just don't see a compelling argument for trams, or light rail for that matter.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby jungle » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:54 pm

Pretty much everywhere you look, ridership doubles after you put a tram in.

However, they're a long term solution in Cork. Even if we started the process now, it would be 2014 before we had anything up and running. Improving the bus service is the only short-term solution.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby kite » Mon Jun 18, 2007 8:23 pm

who_me wrote:Erm.. Can anyone explain this to me again?

We could invest the money in buses, which are flexible enough that they can be used on other routes as demand merits, whose routes can be extended or changed on a whim, which don't require the cost of installing and maintaining dedicated lanes/cables, which don't block the entire system if even one breaks down...

...or we could use trams because they're pretty. Apart from all the poles and cables we'd need to erect.

I just don't see a compelling argument for trams, or light rail for that matter.


I can understand your view on trams vs buses, but take the Luas for example;
You are based in some part of Dublin and need to be at a certain place at a certain time, the High Court at 10.30 for example. Would you feel happier looking at the estimated time of arrival (accurate to within 30 seconds 95% of the time) of the Luas to get you there on time…or hope the number 3 bus from Knocknaheeny will arrive within 1 hour of its due time?
Buses without dedicated lanes (not the CCC line on a map type!!) are fine for going on a leisurely picnic and to build some sandcastles on the beach when time is not of the essence.
I would take the car to town and risk clamping or towing to ensure I get to a meeting on time rather than risk our so called public transport in Cork.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby who_me » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:52 pm

It's possible to have ETA clocks for buses too. (Not sure if it's GPS based, or based on the bus 'tripping' some radio switch when it passes the previous bus stop.) And there could be ticket vending machines at bus stops too, to alleviate the delay when getting on.

I can't think of any reason why buses should be any less timely or efficient. If you give trams a dedicated lane, or build a light rail line, you could just as easily give the buses the dedicated lane, or build a dedicated 2-lane bus route and get the same benefits. If you give trams traffic priority, you could just as easily give buses traffic priority instead.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby PTB » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:15 pm

Like jungle said above ridership goes up dramatically with trams. They're much more stylish, effent and quiet. They dont seem as proletarian as busses. Its like comparing horses to cows:

Horses: Seemingly intelligent and wise; quick; elegant and noble.
Cows: They look thick; Not very good over distance or jumps; Whatever the opposite of elegant and noble is.

Likewise:

Trams: Shiny, sleek, glide along the ground. Used by wealthy people
Busses: Shiny (after they've been cleaned,) boxy looking, tend to get off to a stuttery start before braking at the next set of traffic lights. Not used by wealthy people as much.

Scientists in their intellectual circles of thought have equated the proximity of the side skirts of a vehicle with the percieved beauty of a vehicle. Busses have a good foot between themselves and the ground. Trams seem to go right down to the ground. Another reason to love the tram. See, people are more inclined to like beautiful things. Ever wondered why Colm Meany never became as big a star as Tom Cruise after 'Far and Away'? Its because Colm Meany looks like a cabbage (Although to be fair he got a Golden Globe nomination for The Snapper.) No-one would go to the Glucksman if it looked like a factory. No-one goes on holiday in Essen because it's an industrial hole. No-one is sexually attracted to Jade Goody. Have I made my point?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby phatman » Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:46 pm

PTB wrote: Have I made my point?


Yes, but quite distastefully.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby Spinal Tap » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:41 am

PTB wrote:Like jungle said above ridership goes up dramatically with trams. They're much more stylish, effent and quiet. They dont seem as proletarian as busses. Its like comparing horses to cows:

Horses: Seemingly intelligent and wise]Cows:[/B] They look thick; Not very good over distance or jumps; Whatever the opposite of elegant and noble is.

Likewise:

Trams: Shiny, sleek, glide along the ground. Used by wealthy people
Busses: Shiny (after they've been cleaned,) boxy looking, tend to get off to a stuttery start before braking at the next set of traffic lights. Not used by wealthy people as much.

Scientists in their intellectual circles of thought have equated the proximity of the side skirts of a vehicle with the percieved beauty of a vehicle. Busses have a good foot between themselves and the ground. Trams seem to go right down to the ground. Another reason to love the tram. See, people are more inclined to like beautiful things. Ever wondered why Colm Meany never became as big a star as Tom Cruise after 'Far and Away'? Its because Colm Meany looks like a cabbage (Although to be fair he got a Golden Globe nomination for The Snapper.) No-one would go to the Glucksman if it looked like a factory. No-one goes on holiday in Essen because it's an industrial hole. No-one is sexually attracted to Jade Goody. Have I made my point?


*** POST OF THE YEAR ***

It reminds me of the Cork band Microdisney - "Only Losers take the Bus"
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby who_me » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:14 pm

PTB wrote:Have I made my point?


Perfectly. Closer to the ground = Better!

Hence if I had my feet on the ground as opposed to my head in the clouds, I'd be a lot sexier. Time to start looking around for some ground-floor penthouses too..
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby PVC King » Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:36 pm

who_me wrote:Perfectly. Closer to the ground = Better!

Hence if I had my feet on the ground as opposed to my head in the clouds, I'd be a lot sexier. Time to start looking around for some ground-floor penthouses too..


Plenty of ground floor penthouses with huge floorplates on the market thanks to Dick and his sustainable Bungalow Bleitzkreig guidelines!!!

Seriously I agree on the level access and would further add that through the use of elevated platforms you get the best of both worlds I.e. The level access and the raised views. Its all about bums on seats and all irish people are snobs when it comes to buses and about 80% of these snobs have cars!
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby PTB » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:18 pm

who_me wrote:Perfectly. Closer to the ground = Better!

Hence if I had my feet on the ground as opposed to my head in the clouds, I'd be a lot sexier. Time to start looking around for some ground-floor penthouses too..


Have you tried cutting your legs off?
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby who_me » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:39 pm

PVC King wrote:Plenty of ground floor penthouses with huge floorplates on the market thanks to Dick and his sustainable Bungalow Bleitzkreig guidelines!!!


Heh, after I wrote that I thought the same. Who knows, perhaps penthouse bungalows might be the up 'n' coming growth area in Cork's property market! Just think how much we'll save on lifts, stairs, fire escapes etc. etc.
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby who_me » Thu Jun 21, 2007 12:40 pm

PTB wrote:Have you tried cutting your legs off?


I was a little legless last weekend..
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby THE_Chris » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:52 pm

TRAFFIC LIGHTS have gone in at Amgen plant.

You read that right, mainline traffic lights where Amgen were supposed to be :( :( :(
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Re: Cork Transport

Postby samuel j » Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:33 pm

THE_Chris wrote:TRAFFIC LIGHTS have gone in at Amgen plant.

You read that right, mainline traffic lights where Amgen were supposed to be :( :( :(


Just lovely......... and just when Road Accidents were on the decrease.....:(
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