cork docklands

[who_me]

Does anyone here have a scan of the HH plans from Wednesday's Examiner. I forgot to buy a copy.. I'm very interested to see the layout, especially given how the site spans Centre Park Rd.

[PTB]

I notice in theblimps earlier post that their concert hall had sloping seats from the stage upwards. What exactly are we standing on? Some kind of terraced thing? Surely thats dangerous at a rock concert. What the Howard Holdings proposal has is a layout very like the Marquee, with seating only at the further reaches and a large floor for standing on.

[Citybythelee]

I notice in theblimps earlier post that their concert hall had sloping seats from the stage upwards. What exactly are we standing on? Some kind of terraced thing? Surely thats dangerous at a rock concert. What the Howard Holdings proposal has is a layout very like the Marquee, with seating only at the further reaches and a large floor for standing on.

If you noticed even further, you would see that the seats marked 2, are temporary and could thus be removed. Presumably the structure underneath could be removed also, to leave a standing only section.

[Citybythelee]

Does anyone know how much longer Emperor Gavin will remain as City Manager ? I understand that it is usually 7 years plus a possible 3 years extension, but I can't remember when he started.

[Citybythelee]

Actually I found it !

"Mr. Gavin is Cork City Manager at a time when a number of major infrastructure, transport, environmental and cultural developments are underway as Cork prepares to become the European City of Culture in 2005. He was previously Galway City Manager (1994-2000) and has held a variety of posts with local authorities in Sligo, Mayo, Kildare, Galway and Cork."

So unless he applies for the 3 year extension, his time may be nigh !

[Radioactiveman]

So unless he applies for the 3 year extension, his time may be nigh !

Yeah, him coming in here, doing his job properly; overseeing one of the most exciting decades in the city's development. Getting developers who'd stalled for years to start doing something with huge tracts of land, and all this against vested local interests who'll knock anything because city management doesn't trust them to do now what they haven't done for decades! Yeah, I hate the guy, boooh, hissss.

[Spinal Tap]

[quote="Radioactiveman"]Yeah, him coming in here, doing his job properly]

How dare he bring his "Can do" attitude to this previously tranquil moribund backwater and encourage dynamism and development in a previously run down city.

Cork is changing and catching up - Oh the shame.

The cheek of the man.

[who_me]

[quote="Radioactiveman"]Yeah, him coming in here, doing his job properly]

Much as I hate to play the cynic:

- Nothing has happened yet in the docklands. Even I could oversee this level of inactivity!

- A lot of people - not just the denizens of this fine forum - are very concerned at the council's new found tendency to give public land or public funds to private developers. Which is especially odd, given the council claims it isn't exactly flush with cash, and private developers in this country, generally, are.

[Radioactiveman]

I reckon he's to blame for all this rain we've been having lately too. It never rained before he got here!!
Coming in here....taking our womenfolk! tsk tsk

On a more serious point though, of course nothings happened in the docklands. Because its all privately owned! Getting developers to develop stuff in a coordinated, timely fashion is like herding cats! I wouldn't do his job for next Saturday's Lotto numbers.
At least he's managed to reclaim the showgrounds site against much opposition and now it can be opened up for REAL public access. He's also overseen the the rejuvenation of St. patrick Street and Grand Parade's (soon to be finished) public concourse, despite the moaning and cribbing of shopowners worried about loosing some busineess for a few months while the place is done. The work on St. Patrick street paved the way for the two huge developments which are now ongoing there. The Grand Parade work should give those who have been occupying adjacent sites on the west of of the street a kick up the backside they need.
He's also secured a deal to build the City a brand new central library at no cost. Expect the Howard Holdings docklands plan and the IAWS/Origin plan to go to planning shortly.

[PTB]

If you noticed even further, you would see that the seats marked 2, are temporary and could thus be removed. Presumably the structure underneath could be removed also, to leave a standing only section.

Yes I saw that. Thats why I said 'what are we standing on?', which you would have noticed if if you had noticed further.

[Pug]

Certainly the city manager has managed to get movement in Cork alright but its not all down to him - there is an element to the property boom/developers having the cash to buy massive sites and do them up - I dont think there was anything special in getting a library built in to the plans on grand parade, the developer already owned the site and are more than happy i would think to put it in which makes them look very good for any future applications

certainly the docklands has been sitting idle for years - i dont agree its because its privately owned, eg when you see the council must have known about the Seveso sites for how long? Nothing much can happen until they are moved as per the Health & Safety Authorities constant objections in the area -

its the private developers who have the money to develop it so i wouldnt be giving too much credit to the city - as shown by a closed doors decision to give 8.25 million of our taxes and permission for an event centre to a major developer whereas another developer offers to build a multi discipline stadium and gets no look in - thats pretty poor

the docklands master plan was done in conjunction with the developers so at least the city&developers are moving on it now - from the quick look i had at the docklands plans it looks really good to be fair - the shining jewel should have been a multi dicsipline sprts stadium&concert venue

meanwhile we have to wait on idiotic CIE/Manor Park to go through the appeals process on their grossly out of place plans for Horgans Quay - which is another long wait for a half decent railway station thats holding up the north docklands

[Pug]

was there any more updates on what ACTUALLY happened in the cpuncil chambers when they decided on granting the event centre? Maybe a Freedom of Information act query might help if the council minutes dont when they are published

[PTB]

was there any more updates on what ACTUALLY happened in the cpuncil chambers when they decided on granting the event centre? Maybe a Freedom of Information act query might help if the council minutes dont when they are published

Apparently the freedom of information act is a load of bullshit. You have to pay to submit an application, and then your case is reviewed. They have the right to turn down your application. It's like the Henry Ford quotation- 'Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black'

Likewise:
' Any citizen can have all the information they want, so long as we decide that it's OK for you to get it'

[Sulmac]

From RTÉ:

Consultation on Port of Cork proposals
Monday, 13 August 2007 18:56

Cork City Council has started a public consultation on draft development plans for 400 acres of dockland close to the city centre.

The draft proposals for the South Docklands include landmark buildings up to 22 storeys high, a light rail system, and the potential to bring 20,000 new residents to the area.

In reaction to the draft plans, the Port of Cork Company says that, while it supports the development, it will need a funding package to provide alternative port facilities elsewhere in Cork's lower harbour.

Meanwhile, the Port of Cork Company today released its annual report for last year, in which it outlined a 10.6% increase in container traffic in 2006, and profits 6.3% higher at €5.4 million.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0813/cork.html?rss

[Radioactiveman]

Looks like port of cork are after €65 million to move to Ringaskiddy and out of the docks.

[kite]

Looks like port of cork are after €65 million to move to Ringaskiddy and out of the docks.

See posting on http://www.archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?p=66694#post66694
The Port of Cork begging bowl is well and truly out.
I wonder will Minister Martin instruct his political cronies opps, i mean appointies on the board of the POC to rattle the bowl, or to look after the interests of Cork and stop holding up the redevelopment of the Docklands before its too late?

[corcaighboy]

Surely PoC are entitled to compensation for any move. If you asked any private company to move to a new location, you would have to either buy their property (presumably at a market rate) or set them up with an attractive alternative that makes it worth their while. But to expect PoC to up sticks for nothing and build out the required infrastructure for nothing is, frankly, nuts and it ain't going to happen!

[kite]

I understand your view BUT Port of Cork is as much a “private company” as the ESB, VHI, or An Bord Pleanala, all are loaded with political appointments.
It was many years ago that POC began visiting the City Council looking for compo to move, every time there was some hope that Cork’s Docklands development may at last take off, the POC’s price to open the “front door” (Custom House Quay + the quayside) rose considerably.
Maybe I was half asleep 18 months ago when I thought the POC put such a high price on their quayside property that the city fathers and investors ran for cover to allow their heart rate return to normal.
POC are the landlords of a listed heritage building on Custom House Quay, a building that is described as “unquestionably the most important surviving port-related structure in the upper harbour area” in the South Docks Local Area plan.
This unique building is in danger of collapse due to years of neglect.
POC cannot be allowed to hold the Docklands redevelopment to ransom, we are 8 years in a talking shop regarding the docklands, if things don’t start to happen in a meaningful way VERY soon we may as well forget the whole project and hand Cork back to the handful of merchant princes that held Cork in a stranglehold for generations.

[corcaighboy]

My understanding of it is that PoC's compensation claim relates to not just the Custom House and the associated listed warehouses, but the quay that fronts all the docklands (still in use) and the Tivoli container depot and its associated landbank. All are supposed to be relocated to an expanded facility at Ringaskiddy. I may be wrong of course, so I stand to be corrected. Either way, I would obviously love to see movement made on the docklands.

[kite]

Prof. Gerry Wrixon, past president of UCC has been chosen by the Government to lead the Cork Docklands steering committee.
At last we may see some movement on this vital site for Cork after years of junkets, consultants reports, and foot dragging by inept councilors.

[d_d_dallas]

There's a man with drive, focus and busines acumen. also knows how to do a deal or two!

[Radioactiveman]

Good luck to him. He stepped on many toes in UCC, but maybe thats what this position needs. And he has an eye for good architecture...the Glucksman was his baby.

[Radioactiveman]

Dr. Wrixon is quoted in the Examiner today as saying he had no idea that he was about to be appointed and that it was "news to him"!!
I hope this whole Docklands process is going to be as superbly handled as this appointment!!

[mickeydocs]

Good luck to him. He stepped on many toes in UCC, but maybe thats what this position needs. And he has an eye for good architecture...the Glucksman was his baby.

He stepped on the toes of those that needed to be woken from their slumber.

[jungle]

He stepped on the toes of those that needed to be woken from their slumber.

His legacy at UCC was mixed.

He expanded the university, oversaw a lot of new building and increased industry links to the extent that UCC's industry funded research is almost as much as UCD and TCD combined. However, he left it with a massive pile of debt. Although he liked to portray his opponents as old-fashioned academics, the major concern was over whether UCC could service the debt.