Look at de state of Cork, like!

[sw101]

Idiot

[corkdood]

Rjajc this conversation is clearly way over your head so I won't attempt to explain it to you.

[PVC King]

Originally published by eircom.net
€60m to fund new Cork School of Music premises
From:ireland.com
Thursday, 25th March, 2004



A new building for the Cork School Of Music has been approved for constructio, bringing an end to a long-running saga which has seen students scattered to 17 locations across the city.

The Minister for Education and Science, Mr Dempsey, today announced that just under €60 million will be provided for the building which will be constructed and operated as a Public Private Partnership (PPP).

The Minister had been accused using EU budgetary regulations as an excuse for not providing funding for the project after the school was forced to leave its premises three years ago.

But pressure began to build on the Minister after the regulations were relaxed last month and campaigners threatened to run candidates in the upcoming local elections.

Making the announcement today, Mr Dempsey said he recognised the hardship caused to the 3,500 students and more than 65 staff students and tutors who had been forced to use a variety of premises including a disused hotel.

"I am aware of the deep frustration and difficulties that the delay in progressing the project has caused the director, staff and students in the daily operation of the CSM since their move to the temporary accommodation.

"The government was always committed to this important project but were faced with real difficulties, both national and European, in clearing the project and these have now been fully resolved," Mr Dempsey said.

However, the school is not due for completion until late 2006 and will not be operational in time for Cork celebrating its status as European city of culture next year.

The project will be the first purpose-built school of music in the State and will be constructed and operated by Jarvis Projects on a 25-year lease on the Cork Institute of Technology (CIT) campus.

CIT director Mr Pat Kelleher said the announcement was "a wonderful moment in history".

A grand building site for the European City of Culture's year in the spotlight.

[corkdood]

True enough - well we have so many tower cranes here already one more won't make much difference.

[FIN]

tower cranes are good though. it means that at least it's developing. i must say i like cork. i found the whole driving experience down there quite strange but still. same here. lets hope that as city of culture it gets to do some nice public buildings like that music one.

[prc]

its finally good to see people taking an interest in the built environment outside the pale, however looking through not only this forum, but others one gets a very negative attitude. while we need to be subjective about what is being built in our country, we also need to praise the work which merits it

a comment was made about the opera house is cork, which is a result of the era it was built, not trying to defend the design if you can call a rectangular brick box a design, but this building was built in hard economic times on a shoestring budget, it s recent face lift and that of emmet plc has made the area less drab and with johhson and perrott moving to a new 4 million euro showroom in o callaghans mahon point, it leaves a valuable space for what we hope will be an exciting development in the heart of the city.

the new murray o laoire bulding in ucc and the new school of music on the quays should also improve the citys image. a new apartment block on sawmill street across from st johns college , designed by jack coughlan architects (i think) is also a welcome addition to the city , situtated alongside the south terrace apartment complex , it looks like things have changed for the better

anyway sorry for rambling on , just all this negative stuff is a bit much , lets hope one of the cranes from the extension to the south mall falls mysteriosly and takes the dreadful eicom building with it , yours prc

[T.G. Scott]

cork is a great city but like a lot of the country has too many old relics from the 60's, 70's and 80's. bring on the new city hall refurb and the school of music. if it ever dawns on someone a new development at kent station with bus/rail services and access onto the quays would a great move. if the middleton line is ever reopened, it may someday even continue on to youghal and waterford . a new south-east coast line from cork to belfast via dublin i think however is a bridge way way too far.....
by the way is mahon point actually going ahead and what about the sewage and water works in the city. surely those works must be nearly finished and finally what stage is the ballincollig by-pass at!!?!!

[dc3]

I recently had northern European visitiors visit Cork.
They were much struck by the prevalence of dereliction, next to development, in the main streets. Likewise the 60's and 70's tat was much noticed. While I would regard downtown Cork as more interesting than downtown Dublin, if a little rough around the edges, they did not have this view at all.

They could not believe the incomprehensible down town traffic system, which is very poorly signed as usual in Ireland, and when I told them how long the Patrick Street road works had been continuing they thought I was telling lies.

They also found prices very very expensive by the way, so will not be back for the City of Culchies in 2005.

[corkdood]

Mahon Point is well advanced and will open next year with retailers like Debenhams B&Q and HMV all confirmed as tenants.

After 5 years of disruption the sewage scheme is almost complete with the treatment plant working at 75% capacity at present making Cork harbour a healthier place. The Patrick street rejuvenation is also going well - should be completed by July. Works are also ongoing on Oliver Plunkett Street. I assume they will be finished by the end of the year.
Meanwhile the new lights and bus stops on patrick street have already been vandalised and defaced with socialist workers party posters. Some things never change.
Finally the Ballincollig bypass is well advanced and should open by the autumn.

So its not all doom and gloom by the Lee.

[d_d_dallas]

Hooray Cork! Finally pulled it's socks up...

[Rjajc]

How exactly does my comment display that a perfectly comprehensive and accessible discussion about architectural developments and their respective social and aesthetic merits is 'clearly way over [my] head' Corkdood?

Do you think that my straying from the major thread topic shows this? Or is it just because you weren't bothered giving any time to my (admittedly acerbic) comment and so flung me an adolescent 'won't attempt to explain it to you' ?
Always a thought provoking and truly mature response.

What exactly won't you attempt to explain? Because I really don't feel a single comment in this thread is in anyway 'above' anyones 'head'.

I regularly visit Cork, and so took an interest in this thread.

Lets be honest now; your comment was a way of quickly brushing off my point whilst maintaining a sense of superiority for yourself by implying that I simply don't 'get' this 'exclusive' conversation.

Pah!

[sw101]

Uh-oh

[corkdood]

Rjajc,

This discussion has moved on in the 5 days since you last posted so perhaps you should do the same.
Your comment was irrelevant and childish so I felt it didn't warrant a response.
I still feel that way.

[phil]

Relax a little lads. I really don't think that Rjajcs original comments were at all childish. Although he said them in a slightly sarcastic way, I actually think he made a good point. Some times things are done in the built environment to erase a 'problem'. The belief in the concept that we can change the way people act by good architecture is somewhat problematic as in most cases it just serves to hide reality even further.

Thanks

Phil

[d_d_dallas]

His original comments were very apt - junkies, custom house etc ... but... "I've also heard that moaney, second-city-issue-ridden Corkonians meet in Heuston station when they arrive in Dublin; so I propse we completely refurbish it or better yet move it to remove the 'problem' "


Ouch the poor Corkonians! Maybe the chip is infact on the other shoulder?!?

[phil]

d_d, I thought he was only messing with that final comment. I did not take him seriously. However, maybe he was!?

[Rjajc]

Yep, I was just messing with the last comment; being overly flippant to prove a point.

Casual usage of social stereotypes infuriates me; particularly when used as a sole justification to pursue a course of action such as refurbishing/reconstructing a public space. If this is inherently 'childish' then so be it.

I also don't believe it is 'irrelevant' to challenge them in any circumstance Corkdood; on the contrary, it is wholly relevant.

Anyway, no hard feelings, just needed to get it off my chest.

[anto]

whatever happened to the the site oppossite the Bodega on the Coal Quay, planning for a hotel was refused there a few years ago? Any developments since? Knowing Cork probably not..............

[bunch]

anto, the city council succeeded in persuading the developers behind the hotel application to re-submit and change course completely. An application went in before christmas for retail street connecting cormarket to paul st and approx. 80 apartments (no car parking)

[anto]

sounds good. Things do seem to be happening in Cork alright. I remember living there 96-99 and not much seemed to be happening. Think that Celtic Kitten was a bit late arriving to Cork. Good to see the retail being expanded in the city centre. When Mahon point opens it might suck alot of punters away from the city centre.

[corkdood]

You could be right about Mahon point. Although on the other side of town in Blackpool they opened a large shopping centre three years ago which is always busy. That must have hit the city centre too.
Another major development in the city is that Examiner Publications have put their offices up for sale. Their offices take up a huge chunk of the city centre from Academy Street up to the savoy. They also have paper stores on half moon street. Johnson and Perrot on Emmet Place are also set to move opening up almost an entire block of retail space a stones throw from Patrick Street. I bet the Briitish retailers will be fighting for that one!

[d_d_dallas]

Congrats to the city manager - forced an attitude change in landlords and massive amounts of retails space has been (will be) released coming on stream in the next few years. Too many of Cork's inner city "prime" retails units are too small for suitable modern shops (think smaller units of grafton st). My only problem is that Owen O'Callaghan seems to have his fingers in almost all of the developments. The J+P building, the formers Guys site opposite the Bodega, (possibly) the Examiner site - AND Mahon Point... while he has proved his retail pedigree and ability to draw big names (check out lineup in Liffey Valley and Mahon Point) will he be happy to cannibalise one developments draw to suit another. Me thinks not.

[lexington]

Hey lads! How's it going? The Guy & Co site on Cornmarket Street is actually owned by the O'Donoghue/Ring families, they own the Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond near Mallow and a string of hotels in Killarney including the lovely Killarney Plaza. Money is no object! They applied for PP for 80 apartments and 7 retail units pretty much along the same design as the original hotel they'd planned 3 years ago. It's a shame the hotel didn't get the green-light - it was aesthetically beautiful and would be a far greater asset than more apartments to Cork.

[lexington]

Also, Owen O'Callaghan has a deal with J+P with relation to their Emmet Place premises - they have a no-talks-with-the-press deal. But Owen O'C has in the meantime bought the site along the side-street adjacent to the Examiner premises on which the gay bar Taboo was situated at the former Vodafone store next to GQ on St. Patrick's Street - so it's not too hard to guess what he's up to as he is one of the 3 tenders being reviewed by Thomas Crosbie Holdings for the Examiner site on Academy Street. There's also a rumour Barters Travel Agency, the pharmacy and pub next to it on Paddy's Street have entered deals with him to sell-up or relocated, free up a huge development quarter on Cork's main shopping thoroughfare.

[d_d_dallas]

Oh great... Merchants Qy MK2.

So having inflicted a red brick carbuncle along an ENTIRE quay side - he's now moving to infiltrate both Emmet Place and Patrick St.

On the plus side - Cork City is in need of investment and this activity HAS to be a benefit.