Architect Registration

Re: Architect Registration

Postby Paul cuddy » Thu Aug 04, 2011 9:17 pm

The load from that floor is not transferred to to the perimeter foundation. It is transferred down through the insulation to the hardcore. That floor is a straightforward ground bearing floor slab. If the insulation does what is says on the tin, then the stress will be substantially reduced by the time it hits the subsoil. The insulation in that sketch is playing a critical structural role.

No, you never interfere with the soil below the cut, you excavate away from the property on both sides and draw strike lines between the excavation pits to develop a picture of what is going on. The soil beneath the footprint, should always be left undisturbed below formation level.

2.1m is not that safe, if the underside of your foundation is at 1m below ground level, then you only have 1.1m to the water table. You have to have a min. of the same width as your foundation to satisfy building regs. There is a certain area of soil beneath the foundation that gets stressed called the "bulb of pressure", if it gets wet, then the bearing capacity is significantly reduced, in Sands, the bearing capacity reduces by 50% when wet. Examine the sides of your pit for rusty stains (deposits of iron oxide) they will show you the height of the winter water table.

Not mad about that detail to be honest, it would require gound ground conditions and an excellent structural performance from the insulation, I wonder if those companies ever considered "creep" taking a toll on the insulation. This occurs from long term compression and causes concrete to shrink over time. The concrete is reinforced with extra steel in areas of significant compression.
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby teak » Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:20 pm

I'd always assumed that the detailing shown was just a variant of the Supergrund system.
Thanks for clarifying that.
Now I know what I need to get extra -- SS tie-rods.

I agree totally that having floors on EPS is daft.
Questionable strength of EPS, variation in local strength of the EPS blocks, creep in all
ductile polymers, outgassing of blowing agent, etc all make this a one for the birds.
On the rust band marking idea, I doubt if these would be evident in a brown clay ->
dark bluebrown clay section.

The water ingress to a 2.4 m trench over 4 days was 400 mm but a share of this was
run-in from upfield topsoil flow.

I think I see now that a liaison with a local struc eng is expedient.
Unfortunately, it looks like another inspection trench will have to be dug to satisfy him
as to the water-table depth and such.
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby XArchitect » Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:07 am

To prevent speculation, I confirm that the Architects’ Alliance of Ireland has not appointed Ernst & Young as its auditors.
The reason for that firm’s recent decision to resign as auditors to the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland (Limited) must be found elsewhere.
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby batten » Fri Oct 07, 2011 3:13 pm

note from Agenda of RIAI AGM :-

The retiring auditors Ernst & Young have stated that:
“In accordance with Section 185(2) of the Companies Act 1990, we confirm that there are no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the attention of the members or creditors of the Company.”
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby XArchitect » Fri Oct 07, 2011 7:02 pm

It appears that the Registration Body has made it possible for Irish graduates without Part III to become registered via the Section 15 provisions of the BCA 2007.

This arises through its decision that the “marginal note” may be disregarded when interpreting that Section. Section 15(a) reads:-
“a national of a Member State who holds evidence of a formal qualification as an architect listed in Annex V, point 5.7.1 of the Directive that satisfies the minimum training conditions referred to in Article 46 of the Directive and which is accompanied, if appropriate, by a certificate listed in Annex V, point 5.7.1 of the Directive”.

It seems that Section 15 may now be understood to address EU/EEA nationals with Directive compliant Irish qualifications unless those persons are provided for elsewhere in Part 3 of the Act – which is not the case for Irish graduates without Part III.

The Directive compliant qualifications for Ireland are:-
1. Degree of Bachelor of Architecture (B.Arch. NUI)
2. Degree of Bachelor of Architecture (B.Arch.)
(Previously, until 2002 - Degree standard diploma in architecture (Dip. Arch))
3. Certificate of associateship (ARIAI)
4. Certificate of membership (MRIAI) – This last category is provided for in Section 14(2)(b)

Despite all the surrounding guff, the extract below provides clarification. (The author is the Registar. The context is the eligibility of Irish Nationals with Directive compliant qualifications awarded by another Member State. They were overlooked in the drafting of Part 3. It is the further consequences of the legal advice referred to in the extract that is, I believe, of significance to Irish graduates.)
The central matter is found in this sentence:-
“Subsections (1)(a)-(c) refer to nationals of any member State obtaining qualifications in any Member State”.

“The legal advice can be summarised as follows. There appears to be a conflict between the marginal note attaching to section 15 and the specific text of section 15 itself and also article 1 of the Qualifications Directive (2005/36/EC). The provisions of section 15 and 16 intend to cover the position of eligibility for registration in the register of architects insofar as such persons are not already covered by section 14 dealing with holders of qualifications from the republic of Ireland. Sections 15 and 16 of the Act purport to make provisions in relation to ‘holders of qualifications from other States’ as envisaged by section 14(2)(c). Section 15 is comprised of numerous subsections. Subsections (1)(a)-(c) refer to nationals of any member State obtaining qualifications in any Member State. Subsection (1)(d) refers to a national of a Member State obtaining qualifications in his or her own Member States. Subsection 1(e) relates to any person who obtains qualifications in a non Member State but has such qualifications recognised by a Competent Authority in any Member State. Subsection 1(f) refers to non Member State nationals who are eligible to have qualifications recognised in the republic of Ireland via and international agreement. Subsection 1(g) refers to nationals of Member States who are not eligible under the preceding categories but who qualify under any of the derogations.
The terms of the Directive, and in particular article 1 are also very relevant. Article 1 provides for recognition of qualifications obtained in another Member State without reference to nationality. It is also important to have regard to section 2(3) of the Building Control Act which provides that “a word or expression used in part 3,4,5, or 7 and which is also used in the Directive has the same meaning in that part as it has in the Directive”. The query was as to whether the relevant provisions in the Directive take precedence in the event of any conflict with similar provisions in the Building Control Act 2007 and apart from the general body of European law which recognises the supremacy of European law in relation to conflicts with National Law, section 2(3) of the Building Control Act 2007 affords the provisions in article 1 priority in the event of any conflict with the provisions contained in sections 16 and 17. The Interpretation Act 2005 was also consulted in the review of this issue and based on the fact that the legal opinion is that sections 15 and 16 do not give rise to obscurity, supported the opinion that the marginal note in Section 15 could be disregarded.”

You will have seen that Section 15(a) is qualified thus:-
“that satisfies the minimum training conditions referred to in Article 46 of the Directive and which is accompanied, if appropriate, by a certificate listed in Annex V, point 5.7.1 of the Directive”.

Those qualifying remarks need to be addressed:-

1. It is important to understand that according to the European Commission, the certificate is not regarded as a qualification;
2. In its contribution to the European Commission’s Evaluation of the PQD, Ireland’s Competent Authority has stated that the Annex V Irish degrees fulfil the Article 46 standards (which we know anyway);
3. A certificate from Ireland was added in June this year to Annex V (as well as one from the UK). There was none at all before.

Three reasons may be given to show that it would be inappropriate to impose the certificate requirement on Irish graduates applying under Section 15. These are:-
(i) Doing so would make for a circular argument because the certificate amounts to proof of registration;
(ii) There was no such certificate tabled for Ireland at the time of the passing of the Act – so its imposition was obviously not in the minds of the legislators, thus any such demand is void;
(iii) Irish nationals, with UK qualifications, have already been registered through Section 15 without having such a certificate.

I have presented my personal observations here. My purpose is limited to suggesting to anyone who might benefit (i.e. Directive compliant graduates) that the matter may warrant proper investigation by a legally trained person. I will be happy to provide supporting documents.
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby XArchitect » Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:44 pm

batten wrote:note from Agenda of RIAI AGM :-

The retiring auditors Ernst & Young have stated that:
“In accordance with Section 185(2) of the Companies Act 1990, we confirm that there are no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the attention of the members or creditors of the Company.”


..............................................................
Although it reveals no more to the inquisitive reader, here is the full text of the relevant letter:-

The Directors, The Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland, 8 Merrion Square, Dublin 2 21 September 2011

Dear Sirs

In accordance with Section 185 of the Companies Act 1990, we write to notify you of our resignation as auditors of your company. This resignation takes effect from the time at which you receive this letter.

In accordance with Section 185(2) of that Act, we confirm that there are no circumstances connected with our resignation which we consider should be brought to the attention of the members or creditors of the company.

In accordance with Section 185(3) of that Act, we will, within 14 days after the date of service of such notice, send a copy to the Registrar of Companies.

In accordance with Section 161A(1Xb) of the companies Act, 1963, we will, within one month after the date we cease to hold office, notify the Irish Auditing & Accounting Supervisory Authority (IAASA) that we have ceased to hold office and in accordance with Section 161(2Xa), send them a copy of this letter.

Yours faithfully, Ernst & Young
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Architect Registration - Graduates

Postby XArchitect » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:54 pm

Here, in the inimitable words of the Registration Body, is the certificate description newly added to Annex V, point 5.7.1.
It applies to Irish trained architects who seek professional recognition elsewhere in Europe:-

“Certificate of fulfillment of qualifications requirements for professional recognition as an architect in Ireland issued by the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland (RIAI).”

In my earlier post on this topic, my own wording was somewhat unclear. I used the word “qualification” to mean two things. On one hand I meant academic qualification and on the other I meant requirement or condition.
Thus, my meaning is that the required certificate is not treated as an academic qualification by the European Commission, it is only evidence of registration in the Home State.

The disregarded Section 15 “marginal note” reads:-

“Registration of nationals from certain other states — main categories of such nationals”
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Architect Registration - MRIAI(IRL)

Postby XArchitect » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:35 pm

THIS POST IS NOT INTENDED TO PROVOKE A RENEWED DISCUSSION ABOUT A GRANDFATHER CLAUSE.
It is about the class of architect designated as MRIAI(IRL).

My purpose is to underline the absolute necessity, when discussing Registration, of reading behind every assertion made by the Royal Institute of the Architects of Ireland Limited.
My own opinion is that the more often it repeats a “devastating” observation, the more need is there for those observations to be examined.

The Legal Opinion given to the Royal Institute on the 23rd September 2010 by Gerard Hogan SC (who is now a judge) is being aired anew by its Director, who holds the Statutory Office of Registrar for Architects. Point 12 of that Opinion states:-

“One could not plausibly so suggest that Ireland (or any other Member State) was free to recognise additional categories of persons for purely domestic purposes so that they would not be eligible to avail of the Directive for the purposes of mutual recognition for establishment purposes.”

[In that extract from Point 12, “mutual recognition for establishment purposes” has the same meaning as “automatic recognition in the EU/EEA” which appears in the quotation below.]

YET, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, THE ROYAL INSTITUTE HAS CREATED PRECISELY THAT ADDITIONAL AND PURELY DOMESTIC CATEGORY OF ARCHITECT.

The following statement, headed “RIAI Member and Register Admission Routes” is from the RIAI Ltd web site -
{ http://www.riai.ie/admissions/architects/ }:-

“RIAI Membership (MRIAI) is open to you if you can demonstrate through one of the routes provided that you meet all of the requirements for independent practice in Ireland.
MRIAI is a listed qualification in Directive 2005/36/EC and, with an accompanying certificate (if applicable), confers eligibility to seek automatic recognition in all other EU/EEA Member States.

An alternate architect membership affix MRIAI(IRL) is open to you if you demonstrate that you meet the requirements for registration in the State set out in the Building Control Act 2007 but cannot, at this time, demonstrate compliance with the requirements of Directive 2005/36/EC for automatic recognition in the EU/EEA.

Which affix applies to you is decided by the Board of Architectural Education Admissions Committee when your application for membership is being considered.”

I will borrow from the Registrar’s retort to the BAI decision that the RIAI (Ltd) radio campaign was misleading, by saying
“I am just a simple man” – for I guess it takes the wisdom of a Judge to reconcile these opposing statements.

PS – I will be pleased to see the full text of Gerard Hogan’s other published Opinion which, as I recall, gave specific authority to the implementation of MRIAI(IRL).
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby onq » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:58 am

The way this works for unqualified architects is very simple.
The competent authority has offered them a way to be registered.
If they want to be registered they must grasp this offer with both hands.

The competent authority has been deemed as such by an Act of the Oireachtas.
Regardless of what any Senior Counsel may opine, under Irish law what they say goes.
If RIAI register them but their stance is then found to be flawed they would have a good case.

If they aren't going to take up this offer, this implies they (i) don't want to be registered, or (ii)tested.
If its the former they are acting arbitrarily and illogically or else they may be willing to give up using the Title.
If its the latter, this suggests (i) they know in themselves they're not up to it or (ii) they were tested before and failed.

If they want to keep using the Title Architect they must try their best to become registered or they'll have no locus standii.
The Building Control Act 2007 came into operation on May 1st 2008 and that means next year its coming up to its third anniversary.
Given the recent Priory Hall disaster, IMO the RIAI will need to be seen to exert its authority and unregistered architects are a soft target.
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby onq » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:30 pm

For the record.

At present I am scrambling over myself chasing new clients, chasing old debts and paying my bills - but in the middle of it all I am preparing for registration, which for me is Option C.

I have been heartened by the support received to date from many sources including clients who are willing to sign statements confirming my appointment as their architect and and professional colleagues who are willing to support my evidence of establishment.

I have spent many months uncovering what few documents that remain, confirming my involvement in projects in the 'Nineties and compiling photographs of all the built work I have design and/or certified.

I have request confirmations of my qualifications to be forwarded to the RIAI by both Bolton Street and Trinity College and have informed the Registrar of my intent.

Why am I doing this - i.e. not just Registering but also joining the RIAI?

I did a Management Course to get accreditation for some of the skillsets I've learned over the years in professional practice.
This course made me assess my office in a dispassionate way in terms of the market in which I'm trading at the moment.
Unless I was willing to start another professional career almost from scratch attaining registration was the logical step.
Looked at professionally and logically in terms of market competition and keeping current - this was the way to go.

1. Read my previous post above - its the law and without making a valid attempt to become registered I would have no locus standii should legal action be taken against me.
2. There are signs that the RIAI is going through a process of self-assessment and improvement in terms of its documentation and advice - I want to contribute to it.
3. At present I trade at a titular disadvantage against people with less experience and in some cases less competence - its hard to win in that market.
4. There are 2,850 RIAI members - I know of several senior members who have not acted competently in the past 10 years - cannot let that spread.
5. It costs the same to Register in Ireland as it does to join the RIAI - you'd be very foolish not to take advantage of a market condition like that.
6. I a member of the Architectural Association of Ireland which offers CPD-rated lectures and site visits - but the RIAI is at a professional level.
7. There is no other organization of similar standing or statutory empowerment - the Architect's Alliance unfortunately failed of its promise.

I wish all other candidates the best in their attempts to become Registered.

If archiseek is down (very regularly these days) and you need advice or a shoulder or a kick in the butt I can be contacted via http://oneillquigley.eu
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby onq » Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:34 pm

Two posts previously I warned that the RIAI would see the unregistered as soft targets and this week they have decided to act.

I have started another thread on this subject here because the matter has moved out of the "possible" to the "real".

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8620
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Open Meeting 9 Dec 2011

Postby XArchitect » Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:33 pm

This Saturday 10th December, an Open Meeting for self-taught architects will be held to discuss registration, the RIAI Ltd “Compliance Campaign” and lobbying for an inclusive registration system for architects. The booking form and further information can be found via a LINK on the opening page of the Architects’ Alliance web site – http://www.architectsalliance.ie
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Re: Architect Registration

Postby onq » Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:05 pm

Some of the Current Registration requirements are here
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/qua ... cts_en.pdf

Take note that there is a new RIAI Certificate mentioned in the third column.

This hasn't changed as far as I can see.
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/qua ... cts_en.pdf

The above is inked to from here
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/qua ... cts_en.htm

Which is linked to from here
http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/qua ... ion_en.htm

Take note this comment

"The authorities in some EU countries require architects to have a certain amount of experience before allowing them to carry the title of an architect. They may not apply the same requirement to you if this is not required under the rules of your own country."

This creates additional barriers to architects practising in Ireland and Britain which foreign nationals may not have to comply with.

ONQ.
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