boundry wall issues

boundry wall issues

Postby paddywang » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:57 pm

my neighbour built a boundry wall before i moved in.the wall divides both properties at the rear.a rear garden boundry wall in otherwords.when my neighbour constructed the wall she put the safety piers on my side of the wall.they are about 1 foot inside my property.while i have no problem with that,it now transpires that my neighbour wants to sue me after i con structed a garden shed at the bottom of my garden.the shed measures 8ft by 5ft with a height of 9 ft.the shed is built off the wall and in no way has encroached into the boundry wall.i read on another forum {uk}that if someone builds a boundry wall but puts the piers or buttresses on the other side that person can claim owenrship of the wall.i wonder if anyone can give any advice.whats the best site to get irish planning regs etc.thanks.in advance
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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby tommyt » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:11 pm

Planning expertise is rarely required or of much consequence in boundary disputes. Better to go to a solicitor for an initial opinion.
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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby onq » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:56 pm

+1 what Tommyt has posted.

The neighbour can claim ownership of the wall since she built it.

Piers in a 215mm block on the flat wall normally intrude a max 115-215mm not a foot.

You have assumed the boundary to be the middle of the wall, but it could lie at the front face of the piers.

You may need a solicitor AND a chartered surveyor to sort this out, and possibly an architect to swear the declaration assuming ye can both reach some eventual agreement on the support for the shed and the legal position on the boundary - ie literally - its location.

I don't know that she can sue you, but it does seem a little cheeky to take support from a wall you didn't build and for which support you didn't ask permission

FWIW

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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby paddywang » Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:56 am

yeah ong,about as cheeky as her when she decided to take a foot of someone elses property when she built her boundry wall when my property was vacant.:D
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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby onq » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:26 pm

paddywang,

You have to be sure of the property boundary before you can say that.

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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby Solo » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:02 am

paddywang wrote:my neighbour built a boundry wall before i moved in.the wall divides both properties at the rear.a rear garden boundry wall in otherwords.when my neighbour constructed the wall she put the safety piers on my side of the wall.they are about 1 foot inside my property.while i have no problem with that,it now transpires that my neighbour wants to sue me after i con structed a garden shed at the bottom of my garden.the shed measures 8ft by 5ft with a height of 9 ft.the shed is built off the wall and in no way has encroached into the boundry wall.i read on another forum {uk}that if someone builds a boundry wall but puts the piers or buttresses on the other side that person can claim owenrship of the wall.i wonder if anyone can give any advice.whats the best site to get irish planning regs etc.thanks.in advance


You are being somewhat mislead by some of the posts. Any good solicitor will suggest you seek expert opinion. So heres a bit for free, Just because your neighbour built the wall does not necessarily mean that she owns it. The position of the piers on a wall do often reflect the ownership but not necessarily so. The centre line of the wall is not always the legal boundary of the wall the face of the wall or the edge of the foundation may be the boundary. The UK have a party wall act we do not.

You have to ask a few questions first and the answers if posted here I will look at and see if I can help. First pretend that the wall is not there how would you determine the boundary and what evidence can you use to support that finding land reg map old metal fence post or something like that. Next in relation to that boundary where is the centre/face/piers/foundation of your wall. Is the neighbour claiming ownership of the wall and if so why. Notionally one owns from the centre of the earth to the sky along ones boundary. Therefore encroachment can be over the boundary or under the boundary.

Is the wall a boundary wall or is it a party wall there is a difference in law and if your neighbour claims ownership that is exclusively hers then it is a boundary wall and without the consent of the adjoining property owner must not encroach including the foundations. If the neighbour claims the wall although built by her is owned equally by both property owners that is a party wall then normally the centre of the wall is the boundary however if that is the case it is unusual to have all the piers on one side only. In such a case I would measure the overall width and use the half way point as the boundary otherwise the wall was built further into one property than the other. So depending on exactly where the actual boundary line is in relation to the wall and the claims of ownership of your neighbour your answer will then be known. I represented a client or two successfully on these issues so if you want to discuss this further post reply.
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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby onq » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:41 pm

Solo wrote:You are being somewhat mislead by some of the posts.... Just because your neighbour built the wall does not necessarily mean that she owns it.(snip)


Since you seem to be referring to a post I made, I'd be obliged to hear how you think I may have misled the OP.

For the record, I said the neighbour "can claim ownership", not that she owns it per se, and this is not splitting hairs for the fun of it.

Property disputes arise from claim and counter-claim and certainly someone who paid for building a structure could make a claim of ownership.

But over to you for your take on this.

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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby Solo » Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:18 am

onq wrote:Since you seem to be referring to a post I made, I'd be obliged to hear how you think I may have misled the OP.ONQ.


I was not referring to one single post but the course the posts were taking, and if they continued meandering, then in this instance the questioner was gaining no insight to a complex and often emotive problem.

I am aware from other posts that you are careful about what you say and how you say it. So if offence was taken non was intended. I simply thought I could shed some light on the problem outlined as the problem and the solution may not be simple, unlike some of the posts.
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Re: boundry wall issues

Postby onq » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:03 pm

I take your point Solo, but a general negative comment seems to criticize all around it.

Boundary issues are difficult to define remotely and some are difficult to define standing on site.
Most of the time I have to resort to the mapping facilities to hand and try to interpret old lease maps in relation to current boundaries and title over time.

That having been said there have been several threads on another forum dealing with family members who have unwisely built entire houses on land still in the ownership of relatives and the problems they have faced when trying to sell on.
Certainly who owns the land is an enormous issue, but those conversations didn't really offer a resolution in strict legal terms AFAICR.

Where a boundary is built by someone and not disputed legally, it is possible that the entire wall is in the ownership of the person who built the wall and that over time they will acheive advserse possession of the land in use that supports the wall.

I don't know this for a fact, but I think a case could be made.
So it may be wisest to contribute to the building of the wall on the boundary.
We built a wall recently on our boundary and the neighbours contributed half the money each side.
In the present case perhaps the OP could offer to do so, while claiming ownership to the centreling and a right of support.

These are difficult legal issues to see a way through, ergo my suggestion of taking professional advice.

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