The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby noel o'gara » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:59 am

Look at the record of monstrosities designed and built by our planners who reside in ivory towers, Fatima Mansions and Ballymun to name two. Think about Limerick's Moyross and every other town's ghetto. That is what our republic of free men and women has been reduced to. Controlled by idiots.
The present bank crisis is the direct result of the planning laws because they place a basic cost of about 100k on every house in the country before a brick or block is laid.

The Planning laws which zone land and thereby restrict development to designated areas have totally distorted the market. People are crammed into estates.
A young Dubliner could buy a site in the country for a few thousand Euros if the market was not so distorted. He could build a house according to his budget. He only needs advice on building, not control.
Beautiful sites and fields are available for about ten to twenty thousand euros but you cant get permission to build on them.

Average house prices went up to over two hundred thousand euros and much more and that was because of the inflated land cost that the builders had to get back before making a profit. It is the cause of the banks giving out huge mortgages that were unsustainable and because the government were controlling the planning, the banks foolishly kept up the race to lend.
If builders could build on any land where they could sell houses rather than on zoned land prices would only be half of what they were.
That premium represents the black hole the government are now going to attempt to fill with taxpayers cash.
Zoning has been a recipe for bribery and corrupt payments since the planning laws were introduced. The tribunals only scratched the surface of the corruption but practically every permission was accompanied by gifts in one way or another.
Our economy is imploding and the pundits think it will be ok next year. We may well be on a slippery slope that will send us back into the third world of the hungry fifties and our political masters will forever be promising to get us out of it as they dig the hole deeper.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby sw101 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:35 am

noel o'gara wrote:Beautiful sites and fields are available for about ten to twenty thousand euros but you cant get permission to build on them.


it wouldn't be a beautiful field is any eejit could come in an put up a 5-bed dormer bungalow, as is their RIGHT according to you.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby henno » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:37 am

have they not locked you up yet?
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby Saucy Jack » Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:59 pm

Head to Caherdaniel in Co.Kerry or the road between Killarney & Tralee where everyone has more or less built what they want where they want or Donegal and have destroyed the landscape.

It must have been great living in Oireland before 1963,no slums or bad housing ghettoes anywhere.

Angelas Ashes anyone ?

Head to Houston Texas where you could have a 60 storey office building next to a single storey shack and an oil refinery with housing developments.

You might like it there.



This thread could be a blockbuster ?
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby noel o'gara » Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:50 pm

Saucy Jack wrote:Head to Caherdaniel in Co.Kerry or the road between Killarney & Tralee where everyone has more or less built what they want where they want or Donegal and have destroyed the landscape.

It must have been great living in Oireland before 1963,no slums or bad housing ghettoes anywhere.

Angelas Ashes anyone ?

Head to Houston Texas where you could have a 60 storey office building next to a single storey shack and an oil refinery with housing developments.

You might like it there.



This thread could be a blockbuster ?



All the beautiful villages and towns of Ireland were developed or planned by land owners prior to the socialist dreamers taking control of all planning in 1963.

Now they spend more time trying to preserve the past because they know that their own developments cant match the developments of owner developers plans.
Market forces dictated the developments needed rather than council planners in back offices dreaming about utopia.

They deceived the electorate in 1963 when they brought in those planning laws claiming that the countryside was being defaced with ugly road signs etc. Ireland was in an economic depression at that time with emigration the main industry. Nobody was building and nobody had money.
Since then the council dreamers have built Moyross in Limerick and Ballymun in Dublin to name a few white elephants.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby tomcosgrave » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:01 pm

Noel - the regime of planning and development to which you subscribe is not a republican one. Liberty is well and good, but you have forgotten about equality and fraternity. You can start with those two concepts by allowing equality of access to dartmouth and fraternity in allowing your fellow citizens to share in what should be an asset to society.

Now that would be true republicanism.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby Saucy Jack » Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:07 pm

noel o'gara wrote:All the beautiful villages and towns of Ireland were developed or planned by land owners prior to the socialist dreamers taking control of all planning in 1963.

Now they spend more time trying to preserve the past because they know that their own developments cant match the developments of owner developers plans.
Market forces dictated the developments needed rather than council planners in back offices dreaming about utopia.

They deceived the electorate in 1963 when they brought in those planning laws claiming that the countryside was being defaced with ugly road signs etc. Ireland was in an economic depression at that time with emigration the main industry. Nobody was building and nobody had money.
Since then the council dreamers have built Moyross in Limerick and Ballymun in Dublin to name a few white elephants.


Is this the same lad whose manifesto was rejected by the electorate ?

And you wonder why ?


Darby O'Gill and the little people personafied with the landowners (landlords) controlling development.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby pippin101 » Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:56 pm

OP: Right wing rant.

The reason Ballymun etc. produced disasters was due to inadequate understanding of sociological forces and architectural principles. According to your logic, if they all moved out to meadows in the countryside, they would have been better off. Nonse.

The problem in Ireland is not land zoning. It is known that there is no shortage of zoned land in Ireland. 460000 houses is around 12 years worth of housebuilding at moderate (40,000/year) rates.

The dilemma is exactly the opposite: we have insufficient control over what, when and where people can build. What we need is much more control, not less.

The high prices farmers charge for land for development is due to collusion. I remember when they started building the motorways in the early 2000s the IFA got together and all the farmers held out for more money from the NRA - they saw that large amounts of land was needed by the NRA so they colluded to make it more expensive. The NRA gave in and now we have farmers selling a hectare for a 1,000,000 euro. That's where your expensive sites are coming from.

You're just upset cause the council wouldn't let you turn a city park into a car park. A surface car park! In a city centre area! Go back to your bungalow in Meath that blocks the view of a scenic area.
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby Pot Noodle » Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:57 pm

The farmers again
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby alonso » Sun Jan 04, 2009 10:58 pm

is this tool back again? Jaysus!
any chance your "duty of care" to your D6 property may be enacted?
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Re: The Planning laws have destroyed our republic

Postby hutton » Mon Jan 05, 2009 6:13 pm

alonso wrote:is this tool back again? Jaysus!
any chance your "duty of care" to your D6 property may be enacted?


Unfortunately he is alright. Blight on the face of humanity...

pippin101 wrote:OP: Right wing rant.

The reason Ballymun etc. produced disasters was due to inadequate understanding of sociological forces and architectural principles. According to your logic, if they all moved out to meadows in the countryside, they would have been better off. Nonse.

The problem in Ireland is not land zoning. It is known that there is no shortage of zoned land in Ireland. 460000 houses is around 12 years worth of housebuilding at moderate (40,000/year) rates.

The dilemma is exactly the opposite: we have insufficient control over what, when and where people can build. What we need is much more control, not less.

The high prices farmers charge for land for development is due to collusion. I remember when they started building the motorways in the early 2000s the IFA got together and all the farmers held out for more money from the NRA - they saw that large amounts of land was needed by the NRA so they colluded to make it more expensive. The NRA gave in and now we have farmers selling a hectare for a 1,000,000 euro. That's where your expensive sites are coming from.

You're just upset cause the council wouldn't let you turn a city park into a car park. A surface car park! In a city centre area! Go back to your bungalow in Meath that blocks the view of a scenic area.


Santaclaus comes but once a year, and this year he came in the form of a single but particularly erudite post from a new poster on archiseek...

*looks for the right button - it has afterall been kept top secret hitherto and never used*

Aha, found it!

+ 1,000,010% :)
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