additional information

additional information

Postby ibuprofen » Mon Nov 24, 2008 1:20 pm

I was wondering what is allowed to be called additional information to a planning .
Does it only apply to the standard extras such as boundary treatment , landscaping drgs etc or can it be a major change of location of houses on a site plan.
You have to give notice in an approved newspaper if it contains significant additional data but what are the determining factors that would distinguish between significant additional data and a new application being required. Thanks
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Re: additional information

Postby henno » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:08 pm

ibuprofen wrote:I was wondering what is allowed to be called additional information to a planning .
1. Does it only apply to the standard extras such as boundary treatment , landscaping drgs etc or can it be a major change of location of houses on a site plan.

2. You have to give notice in an approved newspaper if it contains significant additional data but what are the determining factors that would distinguish between significant additional data and a new application being required. Thanks


1. it can refer to ANY information required above the standard needed for validation.

2. Its my experience that it ultimately comes down to the planners interpretation of what 'significant' refers to. There are no hard and fast rules.
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Re: additional information

Postby tommyt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:20 pm

henno wrote:1. it can refer to ANY information required above the standard needed for validation.

2. Its my experience that it ultimately comes down to the planners interpretation of what 'significant' refers to. There are no hard and fast rules.



It is as Henno said entirely discretionary whether a planning authority consider AI/FI significant or not.

More often than not the AI/FI system is abused by planning authorities, rather than refusing a development they will word the AI/FI request in such a manner that if the applicant complies they will get a grant of PP.
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Re: additional information

Postby henno » Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:42 pm

tommyt wrote:It is as Henno said entirely discretionary whether a planning authority consider AI/FI significant or not.

More often than not the AI/FI system is abused by planning authorities, rather than refusing a development they will word the AI/FI request in such a manner that if the applicant complies they will get a grant of PP.



thats a strange statement...

are you saying the planning system is pre-disposed to refusaling applications, and a necessary argument has to be made to create an opinion in favour of the application.....
rather than the planning system being pre-disposed to granting applications, unless a necessary argument i smade to the contrary....
... i would think the latter is my experience of the system.

IMO the planners should always seek a 'further information' request if theres an element of the application they are not happy with, rather than a total refusal because of one changable element.
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Re: additional information

Postby tommyt » Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:35 pm

henno wrote:thats a strange statement...

are you saying the planning system is pre-disposed to refusaling applications, and a necessary argument has to be made to create an opinion in favour of the application.....
rather than the planning system being pre-disposed to granting applications, unless a necessary argument i smade to the contrary....
... i would think the latter is my experience of the system.

IMO the planners should always seek a 'further information' request if theres an element of the application they are not happy with, rather than a total refusal because of one changable element.



I would suggest that in some cases the FI requested is So specific and wide ranging- for argument's sake- omit x number of houses or as the original poster points out, rearrange the configuration of an estate etc. that the significant FI route should not be used and a refusal of PP would be more appropriate. I would imagine the whole process will be challenged by a well heeled objector in the High Court at some stage.

I have also seen FI requests NOT considered significant when they obviously were to a third party, most notably regarding slight changes in access arrangements -which whilst minor in the scale of works needed have a huge impact on the value/developability of a given area of land.

I oresume Planning authorities are applying the generally observed assumption that the Planning Act is 'pro-development', ie you can receive permission by default and just haven't faced a serious challenge on this assumption yet..
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Re: additional information

Postby ibuprofen » Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:47 pm

I founnd this in Fingal's website

Question submitted by Councillor May McKeon
To ask the Manager what is the procedure regarding the erection of site notices when significant additional information is submitted on a planning application, (e.g. revised site layout) so that members of the public can be fully informed of the progress of the application. Furthermore can the Manager outline his plans for the members of the public to view planning files electronically particularly in light of the new Town Council office opening shortly at George’s Square?

Reply:
The Council is not empowered under the Planning and Development Regulations to seek the erection of a site notice/s on a planning application after additional information has been received, examined and deemed to be

significant.


There is however provision to require the applicant to publish a further

notice in an approved newspaper in accordance with article 35(1)(c)of the Planning and Development regulations,2001.


Third parties who have made submissions on a planning application are

notified by the Council of receipt of such significant additional

information and may make further submissions in respect only of the

significant additional information received and without further charge.

Third parties who have not made submissions on a planning application may

also make submissions in respect of significant additional information

received, but must pay 20 euro fee.


It's a bit of a grey area I know. In the end the decision as to additional information being significant or not is up to the planning officer and this wouldn't be contested by the architect because it would be counter productive to achieving a timely decision on the planning permission.

But for discussion,
From above a change to the site plan would be significant additional information. Would a change in the height of the building or additional windows etc also be for example?

Additional information surely should be just that an addition of information and not an alteration of existing information. Although I know alteration of information in additional information has been allowed by planning authorities without being seen as significant additional infortmation.......

Significant additional information has been shown to allow alteration of information so when is the information altered enough to constitute being significant.......

, and what level of change of information would necessitate a re-application being needed or
or is the newspaper notice seen as enough to inform the public of any change in the planning information as it allows submission on the planning permisssion, and if so why isn't a new site notice also erected with the change of information included...........
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Re: additional information

Postby henno » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:40 pm

ibuprofen wrote:I founnd this in Fingal's website

Question submitted by Councillor May McKeon
To ask the Manager what is the procedure regarding the erection of site notices when significant additional information is submitted on a planning application, (e.g. revised site layout) so that members of the public can be fully informed of the progress of the application. Furthermore can the Manager outline his plans for the members of the public to view planning files electronically particularly in light of the new Town Council office opening shortly at George’s Square?

Reply:
The Council is not empowered under the Planning and Development Regulations to seek the erection of a site notice/s on a planning application after additional information has been received, examined and deemed to be

significant.


There is however provision to require the applicant to publish a further

notice in an approved newspaper in accordance with article 35(1)(c)of the Planning and Development regulations,2001.


Third parties who have made submissions on a planning application are

notified by the Council of receipt of such significant additional

information and may make further submissions in respect only of the

significant additional information received and without further charge.

Third parties who have not made submissions on a planning application may

also make submissions in respect of significant additional information

received, but must pay 20 euro fee.


It's a bit of a grey area I know. In the end the decision as to additional information being significant or not is up to the planning officer and this wouldn't be contested by the architect because it would be counter productive to achieving a timely decision on the planning permission.

But for discussion,
From above a change to the site plan would be significant additional information. Would a change in the height of the building or additional windows etc also be for example?

Additional information surely should be just that an addition of information and not an alteration of existing information. Although I know alteration of information in additional information has been allowed by planning authorities without being seen as significant additional infortmation.......

Significant additional information has been shown to allow alteration of information so when is the information altered enough to constitute being significant.......

, and

1. what level of change of information would necessitate a re-application being needed or
or

2 is the newspaper notice seen as enough to inform the public of any change in the planning information as it allows submission on the planning permisssion, and if so

3. why isn't a new site notice also erected with the change of information included........
...


1. The question i sphreased somewhat incorrectly. If a planner deems the application to be unreasonable, and only a very significant change is required to make it 'reasonable' then, generally, the planners refuse the application. A new application can then be made that complies with necessary policies / guidelines.

2. The newspaper notice is all that is required by legislation, and until that legislation is altered, the situation will stay the same.

3. same as 2 above...


ibuprofen... in my experience planners request a 'significant information' newspaper notice to be publish when:

(a) an alteration is made to the application that would contravene the wording of the original application. for example, an original application was made for 30 houses but the planner wanted 1 removed, therefore a new newspaper notice may be required

(b) a change is made to a design that may affect an adjoining landowner, without contravening the original wording, for example, say a 2 storey extension to s semi-d is applied for with a flat roof, but the planner wants a gabled roof... then this may affect the adjoining landowner, but i ssubstantialy teh same as teh orignal application. the planner may request a new newspaper notice. In the heel of the hunt, it comes down to opinion, but planners tend to be conservation and request the notices if theres anu doubt.
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Re: additional information

Postby ibuprofen » Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:36 pm

henno wrote:1. The question i sphreased somewhat incorrectly. If a planner deems the application to be unreasonable, and only a very significant change is required to make it 'reasonable' then, generally, the planners refuse the application. A new application can then be made that complies with necessary policies / guidelines.

2. The newspaper notice is all that is required by legislation, and until that legislation is altered, the situation will stay the same.

3. same as 2 above...


ibuprofen... in my experience planners request a 'significant information' newspaper notice to be publish when:

(a) an alteration is made to the application that would contravene the wording of the original application. for example, an original application was made for 30 houses but the planner wanted 1 removed, therefore a new newspaper notice may be required

(b) a change is made to a design that may affect an adjoining landowner, without contravening the original wording, for example, say a 2 storey extension to s semi-d is applied for with a flat roof, but the planner wants a gabled roof... then this may affect the adjoining landowner, but i ssubstantialy teh same as teh orignal application. the planner may request a new newspaper notice. In the heel of the hunt, it comes down to opinion, but planners tend to be conservation and request the notices if theres anu doubt.


mmm interesting.Thanks for the response.
Indeed planning law states that only the newspaper add is needed for s.a.i. and not a new site notice ,though in my opinion, it should be because there can be a lot of alterations to existing information.
Also it would be good to see the term significant additional information defined... it is a little arbitrary and could be open to challenge.
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