boundary wall

boundary wall

Postby boundary » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:44 pm

hello, i am looking for info on this and came across this site.
i am looking for info on how to go about fixing the boundary wall.
the people next door have put up a new fence up but they have come over . maybe 3-4 ft they in places. they have also come very close to building on it wih an extension.
they boundary is now clearly wrong,
where can i find out where exactly the border lies.
these borders are nearly 60 years old.

is this an issue for the solicitiors?
can i get a map of the site from the council?
boundary
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Re: boundary wall

Postby JQuill » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:05 pm

hello, another curious amateur here, think i can help u with that.

The Land Registry has OS maps with all registered properties individually marked out in red (all properties built since 1891 are legally "registered"). You can inspect the maps at the Land Reg offices or in your county's circuit court, or you can view it online (for a subscription fee). Check out landregistry.ie

However, the lines on the map are not the be all and end all. A note on all Land Reg maps states something to the effect that they only identify ownership & illustrate location of properties, but do not strictly define the boundaries (there's an accepted "margin of error", of a few feet, so to speak).
The physical boundaries on the ground (i.e. fence, ditch, wall) will always take precedence over the line on the map.

Was there previously an identifiable longstanding physical boundary between you & your neighbour's property? If so, that's the boundary, and it shouldn't be changed without your permission. If it's moved, you have 12 years to object before your neighbour can be granted legal ownership under "adverse possession" laws.

This isn't a city/county council matter, but more to do with property law - so things could get messy with solicitors if your neighbour isn't reasonable.
The folio map from the Land Reg could be clear about the original boundaries, but then again might not be as definitive as you hope.

Good luck.
(again: amateur's opinion. prof advice usually best)
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Re: boundary wall

Postby JQuill » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:17 pm

I wonder could anyone give me some rough advice on a semi-related issue.

I'm wondering if I've a right to be consulted about alterations to a boundary wall which separates my property from my neighbour's, but is wholly on my neighbour’s land.

This wall is a long 3m-high back wall of a derelict concrete shed (maybe 60-70 yrs old), which lies 20m behind my house. My back garden now backs onto part of this wall. There’s just an empty field behind it.
The sidewalls of my garden are built up to, and attached onto, this back wall. I also have a raised bed along (& supported by) it, with ivy growing up & over the top. It’s been like this for 15 years, with no objection or comment from the neighbour.
My neighbour wants to knock down the old shed (& thereby the wall at the bottom of my garden), build a house in the field, and put up a much lower wall (half the height) between us.

I don’t know if there’s any specific legislation on this in Ireland (unlike the Party Wall Act in UK), but I would assume I am “party” to the boundary wall (even though I don’t own it), and that it is subject to an “easement” or right to have it maintained as a dividing wall between the two properties.

Knocking it would remove an attractive feature and probably damage the garden, as well as decrease privacy & security. I haven’t heard from the adjoining owner (doesn’t live nearby), but the planning notice is quite specific.

So have I a right to object to the work? Can the wall be altered without consulting me? Would I be compensated for damage, or loss of security, etc.
Would the council planners be happy to discuss it, or would they say it’s a private matter (i.e. get on to your solicitor!).
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Re: boundary wall

Postby Kindra » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:06 pm

JQuill wrote:hello, another curious amateur here, think i can help u with that.

The Land Registry has OS maps with all registered properties individually marked out in red (all properties built since 1891 are legally "registered"). You can inspect the maps at the Land Reg offices or in your county's circuit court, or you can view it online (for a subscription fee). Check out landregistry.ie

However, the lines on the map are not the be all and end all. A note on all Land Reg maps states something to the effect that they only identify ownership & illustrate location of properties, but do not strictly define the boundaries (there's an accepted "margin of error", of a few feet, so to speak).
The physical boundaries on the ground (i.e. fence, ditch, wall) will always take precedence over the line on the map.

Was there previously an identifiable longstanding physical boundary between you & your neighbour's property? If so, that's the boundary, and it shouldn't be changed without your permission. If it's moved, you have 12 years to object before your neighbour can be granted legal ownership under "adverse possession" laws.

This isn't a city/county council matter, but more to do with property law - so things could get messy with solicitors if your neighbour isn't reasonable.
The folio map from the Land Reg could be clear about the original boundaries, but then again might not be as definitive as you hope.

Good luck.
(again: amateur's opinion. prof advice usually best)


I am most interested in your ref. to a longstanding physical boundary. Where did you find this information ? I have a problem whereby a neighbour removed a fence that had been in place for over 27 years. I am told I now have to prove it ever existed as he has removed the evidence ? An error may have been made regarding location of original fence but after that length of time I should think he can not along and remove it without even informing me.
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Re: boundary wall

Postby stephentabb2000 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:25 pm

Land registry is the only legal binding office that can issue maps of land ownership. Ordnance Survey Ireland can issue you a map at a fee of around €30 showing boundaries but i am fairly show its not legal document.

Your best bet is to request this map through your solicitor from Land Registry. Reference tolerances for boundaries, i am fairly certain its up to a max of 6 inches.
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Re: boundary wall

Postby urbanisto » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:57 pm

JQuill wrote:I wonder could anyone give me some rough advice on a semi-related issue.

I'm wondering if I've a right to be consulted about alterations to a boundary wall which separates my property from my neighbour's, but is wholly on my neighbour’s land.

This wall is a long 3m-high back wall of a derelict concrete shed (maybe 60-70 yrs old), which lies 20m behind my house. My back garden now backs onto part of this wall. There’s just an empty field behind it.
The sidewalls of my garden are built up to, and attached onto, this back wall. I also have a raised bed along (& supported by) it, with ivy growing up & over the top. It’s been like this for 15 years, with no objection or comment from the neighbour.
My neighbour wants to knock down the old shed (& thereby the wall at the bottom of my garden), build a house in the field, and put up a much lower wall (half the height) between us.

I don’t know if there’s any specific legislation on this in Ireland (unlike the Party Wall Act in UK), but I would assume I am “party” to the boundary wall (even though I don’t own it), and that it is subject to an “easement” or right to have it maintained as a dividing wall between the two properties.

Knocking it would remove an attractive feature and probably damage the garden, as well as decrease privacy & security. I haven’t heard from the adjoining owner (doesn’t live nearby), but the planning notice is quite specific.

So have I a right to object to the work? Can the wall be altered without consulting me? Would I be compensated for damage, or loss of security, etc.
Would the council planners be happy to discuss it, or would they say it’s a private matter (i.e. get on to your solicitor!).


JQuill
Two things here:

IMO, you dont necessarily have the right to be consulted about works on land outside your ownership but the principle of good neighbout would suggest you should. However the adjoining property owner does not need your permission to undertake the application.

However you have every right to make a submission to the planning authority on the application stating your concerns and asking them to be considered. Find out the last date for observations....its five weeks from the date on lodgement. Write a letter and include photos. Make sure your objection is well grounded. If poissible suggest a remedy rather than simply object. Your concerns should be considered by the planners, although they wont meet you. If you dont get a positive outcome you can appeal to the Board. The adjoining owner is likely to engage with you in order to avoid this route.
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