Attic conversions - exempt development

Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:59 pm

parka wrote:Have to agree.

If in doubt apply for a Section 5, you'll soon be told whether it is exempt or not. ;)




Not the case. Why? Because Bord Pleanala have said so in their Board Order 28.RF.0784, a habitable attic conversion. Not development according to them. Therefore no planning required. Sorry guys you are wide of the mark on this one. No S5 declarations required where works involving "no development" is concerned.
Planning and Building Regs separate. I agree that compliance with Building Regs is required with many habitable conversions. Explanation of what is required in terms of the Regs given in the DOE document found through the link below.

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:27 pm

if there was a yawning smilie I'd insert it

stop feeding the troll
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:33 am

wearnicehats wrote:if there was a yawning smilie I'd insert it

stop feeding the troll


Nice one "wearnicehats" I have had a look at all my competitors sites (attic convertors) to see what they say and I have yet to find one that agrees with the line adopted by you guys. Interesting agenda though for whatever reason.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby goneill » Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:48 am

henno wrote:OK, I WILL MAKE THIS SIMPLE FOR YOU.

1. According to my local authority, nearby local authorities, and building control officers... habitable attic conversions need planning. Therefore everytime a client requests one, i will make a planning application!!! Im not about to embark on a crusade for you or anyone else in your position.

2. Habitable conversions MUST comply with building regulations. These can be life or death measures.


IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?


Well, they would say that, wouldn't they. And what should a Bldg Control officer know about planning? Not that I have ever met one. There is a very good article by the late David Keane in "Irish Architect" about exemption. It was probably about ten years ago, but is still largely relevant.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:43 am

goneill wrote:Well, they would say that, wouldn't they. And what should a Bldg Control officer know about planning? Not that I have ever met one. There is a very good article by the late David Keane in "Irish Architect" about exemption. It was probably about ten years ago, but is still largely relevant.


ok, disregard the fact that i mentioned 'local authorities' altogether.....

my local building control officer is also part of the enforcemnet section, so he IS the exact person to ask...
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:25 pm

henno wrote:ok, disregard the fact that i mentioned 'local authorities' altogether.....

my local building control officer is also part of the enforcemnet section, so he IS the exact person to ask...


These days local authorities are in the business of making a few bob. Unless you show them that planning is not needed they will say it is. Its a bit like the parking meters which are not in use on Sundays. Yet people put in money. What does the LA do with that? Give it to charity. I think not. What you are doing by applying for permission for developments which dont need it is effectively paying the LA to facilitate your neighbours to object to things they have absolutely no right to object to. People should wise up. Money is scarce and giving it away to your local planning authority will not get you very far. They will not even say thanks for it these days.
But I do not blame people who are confused, the issues we have discussed here should be on the DOE web pages. But they are not and each authority is allowed do its own thing. Whats "not development" in one county is "not development" in any county but will your local planner tell you that? No he / she will not. Thats why you must arm yourself with all relevant documents before you make contact with them. And if you dont need to make contact, then steer clear of them. It will probably save you a lot of money, time and frustration. Thats all I will say on this matter. Its been ventilated sufficiently I think.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby goneill » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:09 am

Well, if you meant your local Planning Enforcement Officer, it would have been better to describe his/her as such, rather than by one of his other titles, I can hardly think of any examples of a planning authority telling me something didn't require permission, although there was one notable case where they told a developer that permission for a change of use was not required, when it turned out that it did. That was an expensive mistake.

If I were doing an attic conversion I would be very careful to appraise the client of the disagreement surrounding this matter. I mean, if you put the client to the cost of putting an advertisement (or two) in the paper, preparing six sets of drawings, and hanging around for three months or twelve, you would want to be pretty sure that it was necessary. In the current climate there a lot of people turning quite nasty and if your advice were to lead for example to delayed or cancelled sale......
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:39 am

there are too many people in this world who expect to be told what to do

anyway, now that esterelle has had her/his/its final say I would like to have mine. Simply put, whilst you might be able to gloss over the grey area that exists betweeen planning and building regs and between planning and attic conversions, there is absolutely no grey area between attic conversions and building regulations.

Anyone thinking of converting their attics must read this document issued by the Department of the Environment

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf

you can quote ABP decisions until the cows come home but the requirements to protect your family are quite clear, regardless of whether you needed planning or not so there's a very clear process here

1. do you want to convert your attic?
2. If yes you should discover what needs to be done to meet the building regulations above document either in discussions with an appropriate professional. Most people won't pay for this and / or ignore the advice but, again, it's up to you

This process might, for example, show up the need for velux windows that are suitable for escape - a much different animal altogether

3. You might want to consult with your local authority to garner their opinion on whether the work needs planning. DCC for example hold clinics and it's free. Contrary to what goneil says above, the €40 they'd get isn't much of an incentive. If they do advise that planning is required (at the front, side or rear, especially for escape standard windows) the decision to do so is, again, up to you

4. consult an attic conversion "professional". There are hundreds of them out there and it's a total minefield. I found a very good guy via word of mouth from other architects

Ask them about the building regs. Ask them about planning. If you don't get replies that tie in with the above think very hard about using them. If they don't know the basics then who knows what they're doing up there. It's up to you

IF you do find someone who appears to know what they're doing and you have decided to comply with the building regs then get them to quote for the whole package. If they don't want to then you can decide to try someone else or get a separate contractor to do the rest. Or not bother. Up to you

As I said before I don't do domestic work, run a mile from it in fact - but the nature of my propfession is that friends ask me advice off camera and I make a point of knowing the facts or else I don't give an opinion

The property market is changing. It is no longer a seller's market. I have done several (free) Opinions of Compliance on Planning and on Compliance with Building regs for friends and family. In one case I refused as it didn't comply and wrote a letter explaining why. The decision was then with the vendor - and they chose not to address the issues. The sale fell through and the house is still for sale. This was the ultimate decision and, in the end, it wasn't up to them

caveat emptor - a little knowledge is - in this case, literally, a dangerous thing
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:47 pm

wearnicehats wrote:there are too many people in this world who expect to be told what to do

anyway, now that esterelle has had her/his/its final say I would like to have mine. Simply put, whilst you might be able to gloss over the grey area that exists betweeen planning and building regs and between planning and attic conversions, there is absolutely no grey area between attic conversions and building regulations.

Anyone thinking of converting their attics must read this document issued by the Department of the Environment

http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/PublicationsDocuments/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf

you can quote ABP decisions until the cows come home but the requirements to protect your family are quite clear, regardless of whether you needed planning or not so there's a very clear process here

1. do you want to convert your attic?
2. If yes you should discover what needs to be done to meet the building regulations above document either in discussions with an appropriate professional. Most people won't pay for this and / or ignore the advice but, again, it's up to you

This process might, for example, show up the need for velux windows that are suitable for escape - a much different animal altogether

3. You might want to consult with your local authority to garner their opinion on whether the work needs planning. DCC for example hold clinics and it's free. Contrary to what goneil says above, the €40 they'd get isn't much of an incentive. If they do advise that planning is required (at the front, side or rear, especially for escape standard windows) the decision to do so is, again, up to you

4. consult an attic conversion "professional". There are hundreds of them out there and it's a total minefield. I found a very good guy via word of mouth from other architects

Ask them about the building regs. Ask them about planning. If you don't get replies that tie in with the above think very hard about using them. If they don't know the basics then who knows what they're doing up there. It's up to you

IF you do find someone who appears to know what they're doing and you have decided to comply with the building regs then get them to quote for the whole package. If they don't want to then you can decide to try someone else or get a separate contractor to do the rest. Or not bother. Up to you

As I said before I don't do domestic work, run a mile from it in fact - but the nature of my propfession is that friends ask me advice off camera and I make a point of knowing the facts or else I don't give an opinion

The property market is changing. It is no longer a seller's market. I have done several (free) Opinions of Compliance on Planning and on Compliance with Building regs for friends and family. In one case I refused as it didn't comply and wrote a letter explaining why. The decision was then with the vendor - and they chose not to address the issues. The sale fell through and the house is still for sale. This was the ultimate decision and, in the end, it wasn't up to them

caveat emptor - a little knowledge is - in this case, literally, a dangerous thing




There are may items in the wearnicehats contribution which require comment and clarification but I will wait a week or so in order to let everyone else have their say
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby goneill » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:43 am

Contrary to what goneil says above, the €40 they'd get isn't much of an incentive.

Did I say they do it for the money?
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:32 pm

esterelle wrote:There are may items in the wearnicehats contribution which require comment and clarification but I will wait a week or so in order to let everyone else have their say


There is quite a bit more to be said on this issue but I think it important that the public get an opportunity to have a browse over the DOE Guidlines which are issued to all local planners in this country with respect to planning decisions and related matters. I have included here a link to these guidelines. Please note with interest what is stated in them about Fire Regulations and Building Regulations : pages 67 and 68 or thereabouts.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,1603,en.pdf

When people digest these I will return to attics, habitable and non-habitable.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:44 pm

I can't wait to discover the relevance of a obsolete 2005 "Draft for consultation" document for planners

if you want "the public" to refer to anything at least use the right documents ie

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,14467,en.pdf

sums you up really

In any event, given that my post specifically separates planning and building regulations and focuses instead on the requirements of each, it serves no purpose whatsoever
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:50 pm

wearnicehats wrote:I can't wait to discover the relevance of a obsolete 2005 "Draft for consultation" document for planners

if you want "the public" to refer to anything at least use the right documents ie

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Planning/FileDownLoad,14467,en.pdf

sums you up really

In any event, given that my post specifically separates planning and building regulations and focuses instead on the requirements of each, it serves no purpose whatsoever



Now now "wearnicehats" touchy touchy. Same document really in relation to the matters I refer to. No need for any nasty comments or namecalling. People who resort to that type of thing just demonstrate a lack of class I always feel
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:00 pm

rather a lack of class than knowledge.

why don't you enlighten us with the "many items that require comment and clarification"
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:05 pm

wearnicehats wrote:rather a lack of class than knowledge.

why don't you enlighten us with the "many items that require comment and clarification"


All in good time. There are so many it will take a while and I am a busy man.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:10 pm

yawn
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 28, 2008 5:12 pm

wearnicehats wrote:don't take too long- these are depressing times and I could do with a good laugh


Fail play wearnicehats, you have given us plenty of those already
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:00 pm

esterelle wrote:Fail play wearnicehats, you have given us plenty of those already




It is a fact that if someone applies for planning permission for an attic conversion (habitable or non habitable) and includes a dormer window there is a real chance that you will be refused for the lot. The planning authority will not differentiate between the internal works involved in the conversion (not development at all) and the external works involved in putting in the dormer window (definitely development requiring planning permission. People sometimes think that this refusal prevents them from converting their attic. This is definitely not so and if a Velux window will suffice and it falls within the scope of section 4 (1) (h) of the 2000 Act then you can proceed without any permission. If the attic is to be used as a bedroom you must of course ensure that the Velux window is a type which satisfies Part B of the building Regs. I have several cases in recent years where people who had attics suitable for conversion abandoned the whole idea after being refused by their planning authority because a dormer window was found to be unacceptable. They believed that those refusals bound them in relation to works which did not need planning permission in the first place. Needless to say the planning authority did not enlighten them on this.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby Archie » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm

henno wrote:Contributors here KNOW that habitale conversions require planning
No they dont.

I have to say I've read this thread with interest and it amazes me how people cant or wont understand the requirements of the P & D Acts. It was stated and backed up with links to ABP determinations that attic conversions to habitable space are exempt from planning subject to conditions relating to window locations.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:47 am

Archie wrote:No they dont.

I have to say I've read this thread with interest and it amazes me how people cant or wont understand the requirements of the P & D Acts. It was stated and backed up with links to ABP determinations that attic conversions to habitable space are exempt from planning subject to conditions relating to window locations.


YES they do..

to say something is exempt, subject to conditions, without reference to planning legislation is meaningless.

as i have stated many times above....

If a client approaches me regarding an attic conversion.. the first thing i will do is contact the local planning authority and ask them if it requires planning... the WILL say yes..
Im not going to argue saying well "esterelle and archie on archiseek say it isnt"....

I will take my determinations from my local planning authority until such time as planning legislation specifically refers to and describes a topical issue such as attic conversions and required rooflights. It has already been stated above that an bord pleanala rulings do not constitute planning legislation.

esterelle has made a very very significant argument as to why they should be considered exempt so his/her next step should be to lobby the dept to clarify the matter through legislation...... preaching here is not going to change any certifiers mind when it comes down to it being their ass and their PI insurance which is on the line.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:33 pm

Archie wrote:No they dont.

I have to say I've read this thread with interest and it amazes me how people cant or wont understand the requirements of the P & D Acts. It was stated and backed up with links to ABP determinations that attic conversions to habitable space are exempt from planning subject to conditions relating to window locations.


ok so let's examine this defining case of 32 Ballinclea Heights that is supposed to clear up any ambiguity over the planning act

Case PL06D.RL2284

2004 - June – rooflight and gable windows installed without planning
2004 - December – adjoining residents complain to DLRCC
2005 – February – DLRCC issue enforcement warning to owners
2005 – March – owners argue verbal confirmation from DLRCC that planning was not required.
2005 – May – DLRCC inspect and consider the windows not exempt
2005 – July – owner seeks section 5 declaration
2005 – August – DLRCC consider gable window exempt but velux windows not exempt
2005 – September – owner appeals to ABP

2006 – February – Inspector’s report rules:that provision of six roof lights in the eastern roof plane constitutes development which materially affects the external appearance of the structure, but which does not render its appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure and of neighbouring structures. Therefore, provision of six roof lights in the eastern roof plane of the dwelling house is development and is exempted development.

2006 – February – The Board Direction agrees but then suddenly disagrees with the gable, ruled exempt by both DLRCC and the ABP inspector in that provision of a window in the northern gable of the dwelling house constitutes development which materially affects the external appearance of the structure and which renders its appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure and of neighbouring structures. Therefore, the said provision of a window in the northern gable constitutes development and is not exempted development.

Case PL06D.RL2287

In tandem with this the appellant also referred the Section 5 to ABP

2006 – February - Inspector changes his mind and considers gable window to be exempt
2006 – February - Board overturns inspector again and reiterates original decision that gable is not exempt
2006 – August - The applicant then applied to DLRCC for retention
2006 – September - Retention granted with the following conditions

1. Any attic floorspace which does not comply with Building Regulations in relation to habitable standards shall not be used for human habitation

2. This permission does not imply any consent or approval for the structural stability and/or habitability of the works carried out and does not imply that the structure complies with the Building Regulations

3. The attention of the applicant is drawn to Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Governments' document "Loft Conversion: Protect your family" in ensuring that all development in relation to the attic conversion is undertaken within the necessary requirements

But guess what – appealed again under case PL06D.220205

February 2007 the board decides as follows:

The window within the northern gable shall be fitted with obscure glazing and
shall be non-openable, and the attic space shall be used for storage purposes only.

2007 – September - Now, just when you thought it was all over, the applicant applies for a new permission with a redesign of the gable window to be an internal bay. This is granted and duly appealed under case D06B/0707 PL06D.220205. The board confirms the decision of DLRCC

Presumably this applies just to the window but the condition that it be used for storage only still applies


Therefore, this clear cut case that proves categorically every aspect of exempted development for attics, windows etc, can be summarised as follows

Planning Authority – rejects roof light, accepts gable
ABP Inspector – accepts roof light, accepts gable
ABP Board – accepts roof light, rejects gable
ABP Inspector – accepts roof light, accepts gable
ABP Board – accepts roof light, rejects gable
Planning Authority - accepts retention of window, conditions compliance with Building regs
ABP – accepts accepts retention of window, conditioned use for storage only
Planning Authority – accepts redesigned window, no mention of previous compliance
ABP – accepts redesigned window, no mention of previous condition

Total length of process – 3 years

Yep that’s pretty damn cut and dried to me
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Mon Dec 08, 2008 3:45 pm

wearnicehats wrote:ok so let's examine this defining case of 32 Ballinclea Heights that is supposed to clear up any ambiguity over the planning act

Case PL06D.RL2284

2004 - June – rooflight and gable windows installed without planning
2004 - December – adjoining residents complain to DLRCC
2005 – February – DLRCC issue enforcement warning to owners
2005 – March – owners argue verbal confirmation from DLRCC that planning was not required.
2005 – May – DLRCC inspect and consider the windows not exempt
2005 – July – owner seeks section 5 declaration
2005 – August – DLRCC consider gable window exempt but velux windows not exempt
2005 – September – owner appeals to ABP

2006 – February – Inspector’s report rules:that provision of six roof lights in the eastern roof plane constitutes development which materially affects the external appearance of the structure, but which does not render its appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure and of neighbouring structures. Therefore, provision of six roof lights in the eastern roof plane of the dwelling house is development and is exempted development.

2006 – February – The Board Direction agrees but then suddenly disagrees with the gable, ruled exempt by both DLRCC and the ABP inspector in that provision of a window in the northern gable of the dwelling house constitutes development which materially affects the external appearance of the structure and which renders its appearance inconsistent with the character of the structure and of neighbouring structures. Therefore, the said provision of a window in the northern gable constitutes development and is not exempted development.

Case PL06D.RL2287

In tandem with this the appellant also referred the Section 5 to ABP

2006 – February - Inspector changes his mind and considers gable window to be exempt
2006 – February - Board overturns inspector again and reiterates original decision that gable is not exempt
2006 – August - The applicant then applied to DLRCC for retention
2006 – September - Retention granted with the following conditions

1. Any attic floorspace which does not comply with Building Regulations in relation to habitable standards shall not be used for human habitation

2. This permission does not imply any consent or approval for the structural stability and/or habitability of the works carried out and does not imply that the structure complies with the Building Regulations

3. The attention of the applicant is drawn to Department of Environment, Heritage and Local Governments' document "Loft Conversion: Protect your family" in ensuring that all development in relation to the attic conversion is undertaken within the necessary requirements

But guess what – appealed again under case PL06D.220205

February 2007 the board decides as follows:

The window within the northern gable shall be fitted with obscure glazing and
shall be non-openable, and the attic space shall be used for storage purposes only.

2007 – September - Now, just when you thought it was all over, the applicant applies for a new permission with a redesign of the gable window to be an internal bay. This is granted and duly appealed under case D06B/0707 PL06D.220205. The board confirms the decision of DLRCC

Presumably this applies just to the window but the condition that it be used for storage only still applies


Therefore, this clear cut case that proves categorically every aspect of exempted development for attics, windows etc, can be summarised as follows

Planning Authority – rejects roof light, accepts gable
ABP Inspector – accepts roof light, accepts gable
ABP Board – accepts roof light, rejects gable
ABP Inspector – accepts roof light, accepts gable
ABP Board – accepts roof light, rejects gable
Planning Authority - accepts retention of window, conditions compliance with Building regs
ABP – accepts accepts retention of window, conditioned use for storage only
Planning Authority – accepts redesigned window, no mention of previous compliance
ABP – accepts redesigned window, no mention of previous condition

Total length of process – 3 years

Yep that’s pretty damn cut and dried to me





This is all great research by "wearnicehats" but quite meaningless in the context of what we are dealing with here. When I am dealing with a client who wants to have their attic converted, I ask a few simple questions. 1. Is the conversion for habitable use. 2. Do you want a dormer window. 3. When do you want the job done.
Planners are a very confused lot when it comes to attics. They do not like to put much in writing, they prefer "clinics" instead. There are notable exceptions, Dun Laoghaire for example.
My advice to anyone wanting their attic converted is this. Contact a reputable attic conversion firm. They will give you the facts and the difficulties straight off. Remember you can have an attic converted for storage purposes first. No requirement for planning permission, as works involved are are internal (works are not development)
If you then decide you want your conversion to accomodate a bedroom you need ro comply with Part B of the Building Regs. This may or may not involve a planning application. It certainly will if you want a dormer window. That rule applies in every county in Ireland. If you are happy with a Velux window you will most propably never need to meet a Local Authority planner. The Velux window must be one which satisfies the requirements of the aforementioned Part B of the Regs. External works such as are requitred to put in a Velux window are development. However the works will more than likely be exempted development under Part 4 of the 2000 Planning Act. Look at houses around you and see have they Velux windows. If they have you can take it that your Velux is almost certainly exempted under 4 (1) (h) as your roof will be in character with your neighbours roofs.
"Wearnicehats" long winded dissertation is very nice but of no practical use. I suspect he may work in a local authority. Make your own mids up folks. There are lots of agendas out there.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:10 pm

esterelle wrote:This is all great research by "wearnicehats" but quite meaningless in the context of what we are dealing with here. When I am dealing with a client who wants to have their attic converted, I ask a few simple questions. 1. Is the conversion for habitable use. 2. Do you want a dormer window. 3. When do you want the job done.
Planners are a very confused lot when it comes to attics. They do not like to put much in writing, they prefer "clinics" instead. There are notable exceptions, Dun Laoghaire for example.
My advice to anyone wanting their attic converted is this. Contact a reputable attic conversion firm. They will give you the facts and the difficulties straight off. Remember you can have an attic converted for storage purposes first. No requirement for planning permission, as works involved are are internal (works are not development)
If you then decide you want your conversion to accomodate a bedroom you need ro comply with Part B of the Building Regs. This may or may not involve a planning application. It certainly will if you want a dormer window. That rule applies in every county in Ireland. If you are happy with a Velux window you will most propably never need to meet a Local Authority planner. The Velux window must be one which satisfies the requirements of the aforementioned Part B of the Regs. External works such as are requitred to put in a Velux window are development. However the works will more than likely be exempted development under Part 4 of the 2000 Planning Act. Look at houses around you and see have they Velux windows. If they have you can take it that your Velux is almost certainly exempted under 4 (1) (h) as your roof will be in character with your neighbours roofs.
"Wearnicehats" long winded dissertation is very nice but of no practical use. I suspect he may work in a local authority. Make your own mids up folks. There are lots of agendas out there.


you forgot one very important step esterelle...

if the client needs to pay for this conversion with a mortgage, the financial institution will request the an architect / engineer be engaged to certify compliance, or exemption, with building regs and planning permission before they release monies....

no cert.... no money.... no conversion
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:16 pm

henno wrote:you forgot one very important step esterelle...

if the client needs to pay for this conversion with a mortgage, the financial institution will request the an architect / engineer be engaged to certify compliance, or exemption, with building regs and planning permission before they release monies....

no cert.... no money.... no conversion



Yes Henno you are correct. But I arrange all of that for my clients. So do most reputable attic converters. Even "wearnicehats" does that for his friends for free. A bit of a nixer I fancy.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby Archie » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:10 pm

henno wrote:I will take my determinations from my local planning authority until such time as planning legislation specifically refers to and describes a topical issue such as attic conversions and required rooflights. It has already been stated above that an bord pleanala rulings do not constitute planning legislation.
So your local PA is the authoritative voice when it comes to making planning determinations rather than ABP.

I suppose you'll be telling us next that none of their decisions have ever been successfully appealed.


henno wrote:preaching here is not going to change any certifiers mind when it comes down to it being their ass and their PI insurance which is on the line.
I have certified quite a few developments of this kind and I can sleep easily in my bed at night knowing that Im right.
Archie
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