Attic conversions - exempt development

Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Wed Nov 05, 2008 6:10 pm

wearnicehats wrote:At least we know who's to blame for the preponderance of the poxy things all over the place

How many of those conversions complied with Part B when you'd finished by the way?



Planning compliant in any event.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:48 pm

esterelle wrote:Planning compliant in any event.


that is a disgraceful comment you low life cowboy

Just for your information I insist that everyone I know who buys a house insists on an Architect's Compliance Cert. They'll get you eventually

Don't come on here looking for absolution.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:17 pm

wearnicehats wrote:that is a disgraceful comment you low life cowboy

Just for your information I insist that everyone I know who buys a house insists on an Architect's Compliance Cert. They'll get you eventually

Don't come on here looking for absolution.



I think everybody will accept that those who resort to name calling do so when they have lost an argument. I will have you know that I am no cowboy and my attics comply with all regulations. I apologise if your "planning application trade" has been affected.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Wed Nov 05, 2008 11:19 pm

esterelle wrote:I think everybody will accept that those who resort to name calling do so when they have lost an argument. I will have you know that I am no cowboy and my attics comply with all regulations. I apologise if your "planning application trade" has been affected.


I have never done an attic conversion and I would rather work in McDonalds than have to start. Or any other domestic application other than my own extension. I am a slave to commercialism

I haven't lost any argument. I asked you whether, having told your "clients" that they don't need planning permission that you also informed them of their obligations under the Building Regulations to protect their families from burning to death. You answered in a fashion that states "it's got planning, what do I care". The reason why I have not converted my own attic is not because I do not want to apply for planning - I did that for the extension anyway - but because I did not want to have to replace all the original doors in the house to protect my kid who would otherwise have wanted to sleep in the attic

"Your" attics might comply with whatever regs you think exist but, if you had a duty of care to your clients, your answer to me would have been a simple "all"
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:04 pm

wearnicehats wrote:I have never done an attic conversion and I would rather work in McDonalds than have to start. Or any other domestic application other than my own extension. I am a slave to commercialism

I haven't lost any argument. I asked you whether, having told your "clients" that they don't need planning permission that you also informed them of their obligations under the Building Regulations to protect their families from burning to death. You answered in a fashion that states "it's got planning, what do I care". The reason why I have not converted my own attic is not because I do not want to apply for planning - I did that for the extension anyway - but because I did not want to have to replace all the original doors in the house to protect my kid who would otherwise have wanted to sleep in the attic

"Your" attics might comply with whatever regs you think exist but, if you had a duty of care to your clients, your answer to me would have been a simple "all"



Well now at least you are fully informed of the current situation vis a vis planning for attic conversions. You may not be aware of it but planning authorities have long since abdicated responsibility for supervision of the Building Regulations in this Country. Self Certification has been in vogue for a very long time but there still remains ambiguity in this area. I would always ensure that my attics satisfy all relevant regulations and I would go further and advise people to invest in smoke alarms in all dwellings, new and old. Upstairs windows may be locked and keys may not be easily found. The smoke alarms give you that extra escape time in the event of fire. Regulations are a neccessity but commonsense is a must for all home owners and dwellers.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:37 pm

esterelle wrote:Well now at least you are fully informed of the current situation vis a vis planning for attic conversions. .


hahahahahahahaha:D

show's over you win etc. let the readers decide
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:53 pm

wearnicehats wrote:hahahahahahahaha:D

show's over you win etc. let the readers decide




Thankfully they are. I have several more orders in today
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby ctesiphon » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:23 pm

esterelle wrote:Self Certification has been in vogue for a very long time but there still remains ambiguity in this area.


Ambiguity? No. I think you've made your (professional?) position very clear and, by extension, have highlighted the downsides of allowing shysters to 'self regulate'.

Still, you're alright, Jack. :rolleyes:
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby Bren88 » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:01 pm

esterelle,
I haven't posted here in a few months.
I decided to break the mould and agree with you that attic conversations, alone, are exempt.
And even that roof lights etc, may be exempt. Although, not always, case by case and al.

However, this comment;
esterelle wrote:Planning compliant in any event.

Is terrible.
Are you joking. Or are you seriously considering blatent disregard for building regs (not planning regs).
Are you even aware of the requirements?
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:04 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Ambiguity? No. I think you've made your (professional?) position very clear and, by extension, have highlighted the downsides of allowing shysters to 'self regulate'.

Still, you're alright, Jack. :rolleyes:



You've just missed the whole point. We do not self regulate, rather we abide by the statutory regulation which is part of the law of the land. Perhaps you are referring to planning authorities to fail to inform would be applicants for planning that no planning is needed and return their fees.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:34 pm

Bren88 wrote:esterelle,
I haven't posted here in a few months.
I decided to break the mould and agree with you that attic conversations, alone, are exempt.
And even that roof lights etc, may be exempt. Although, not always, case by case and al.

However, this comment;

Is terrible.
Are you joking. Or are you seriously considering blatent disregard for building regs (not planning regs).
Are you even aware of the requirements?



Bren88, you appear not to have read all my comments but selected one which was part of an interchange with wearnicehats. If you read them all I think you will understand that all my attic conversions are not just compliant with planning laws but also satisfy the requirements of the Building Regs.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:01 am

esterelle wrote:Bren88, you appear not to have read all my comments but selected one which was part of an interchange with wearnicehats. If you read them all I think you will understand that all my attic conversions are not just compliant with planning laws but also satisfy the requirements of the Building Regs.


ok esterelle....

if you convert an attic of a two storey dwelling... what work do you need to do to be building reg compliant?
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:23 pm

henno wrote:ok esterelle....

if you convert an attic of a two storey dwelling... what work do you need to do to be building reg compliant?



If you read the relevant Section 5 decision (Board Order), the reference number of which I quoted previously then you will find the answer to your question. It is set out there for you in black and white.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:32 pm

esterelle wrote:If you read the relevant Section 5 decision (Board Order), the reference number of which I quoted previously then you will find the answer to your question. It is set out there for you in black and white.



And Henno just for your information some attic conversions do not require compliance with the Building Regs (ie those where there is no fixed ladder or stairs and no structural work was involved in the conversion)
If you are any way familiar with the Building Regs then I suspect you will know precisely what works are required to make those attics which require compliance with the Regs so compliant. By the way this is not a quiz and I know that you are upset with having your mind changed on the matter of attics and planning permission.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:43 pm

be under no illusions - you haven't changed my mind one iota.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:47 pm

wearnicehats wrote:be under no illusions - you haven't changed my mind one iota.


Res ipsa loquitir
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:09 pm

esterelle wrote:And Henno just for your information some attic conversions do not require compliance with the Building Regs (ie those where there is no fixed ladder or stairs and no structural work was involved in the conversion)
If you are any way familiar with the Building Regs then I suspect you will know precisely what works are required to make those attics which require compliance with the Regs so compliant. By the way this is not a quiz and I know that you are upset with having your mind changed on the matter of attics and planning permission.



At no point was anyone talking about conversions that were NOT for habitation....
every instance i refer to above is regarding habitable conversions...

oh, and you certainly have not changed my mind.. the order you linked to i svery interesting and may be very helpful in certain situations but....

as far as i am concerned, if a client comes in to me looking for an attic conversion, i will contact the local authority and ask them if it requires permission and i can guarantee you that 100% will tell me it does.. .therefore i will still prepare the planning application, but more importantly i will ensure i am engaged to supervise the likes of you carrying out the work to ensure everything is compliant with building regs.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby ctesiphon » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:13 pm

esterelle wrote:Res ipsa loquitir


I presume you mean 'Res ipsa loquitur'?

Still, I suppose at least you're being consistent in your failings.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby wearnicehats » Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:28 pm

esterelle wrote:Res ipsa loquitir


caveat emptor
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:16 pm

ctesiphon wrote:I presume you mean 'Res ipsa loquitur'?

Still, I suppose at least you're being consistent in your failings.






vous êtes trop parfait
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:34 pm

henno wrote:At no point was anyone talking about conversions that were NOT for habitation....
every instance i refer to above is regarding habitable conversions...

oh, and you certainly have not changed my mind.. the order you linked to i svery interesting and may be very helpful in certain situations but....

as far as i am concerned, if a client comes in to me looking for an attic conversion, i will contact the local authority and ask them if it requires permission and i can guarantee you that 100% will tell me it does.. .therefore i will still prepare the planning application, but more importantly i will ensure i am engaged to supervise the likes of you carrying out the work to ensure everything is compliant with building regs.



I would respectfully direct you through the link below to the paragraph entitled "If I have planning permission, do I need to comply with Building Regulations? This is the Cork County Council website and it shows clearly the differences between Planning Permission and the Building Regulations. Some local authorities and contributors here are still fudging the issue and trying to combine the two. They are disctinct and different and are regulated under seperate legislation. If someone gets their attic converted for storage purposes only it does not need to comply with the Regs regardless of what works were involved. It may be the most elaborate conversion ever undertaken, but this is the position. Planning permission is regulated under the planning acts and if one wants to have a dormer window that needs permission in all cases.

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%20County%20Council/Departments/Infrastructure%20&%20Development/Fire%20Service%20and%20Building%20Control/Building%20Control/FAQs#FAQ13
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:56 pm

esterelle wrote:I would respectfully direct you through the link below to the paragraph entitled "If I have planning permission, do I need to comply with Building Regulations? This is the Cork County Council website and it shows clearly the differences between Planning Permission and the Building Regulations. Some local authorities and contributors here are still fudging the issue and trying to combine the two. They are disctinct and different and are regulated under seperate legislation. If someone gets their attic converted for storage purposes only it does not need to comply with the Regs regardless of what works were involved. It may be the most elaborate conversion ever undertaken, but this is the position. Planning permission is regulated under the planning acts and if one wants to have a dormer window that needs permission in all cases.

http://www.corkcoco.ie/co/web/Cork%20County%20Council/Departments/Infrastructure%20&%20Development/Fire%20Service%20and%20Building%20Control/Building%20Control/FAQs#FAQ13



You dont need to direct me to anything, i know the difference and requirements for both and i have never suggested otherwise. Again i reiterate, i have never once in this thread refered to a non-habitable conversion.

Contributors here KNOW that habitale conversions require planning, and that these then MUST comply with building regs....

theres no fudge, muddle or confusion....
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby esterelle » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:14 pm

henno wrote:You dont need to direct me to anything, i know the difference and requirements for both and i have never suggested otherwise. Again i reiterate, i have never once in this thread refered to a non-habitable conversion.

Contributors here KNOW that habitale conversions require planning, and that these then MUST comply with building regs....

theres no fudge, muddle or confusion....



But there you go again creating the fudge. You have absolutely no basis for what you say. The Board Order sets out the position. You are not accepting it and you are trying to tie planning and building regs together.
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby henno » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:21 pm

esterelle wrote:But there you go again creating the fudge. You have absolutely no basis for what you say. The Board Order sets out the position. You are not accepting it and you are trying to tie planning and building regs together.


OK, I WILL MAKE THIS SIMPLE FOR YOU.

1. According to my local authority, nearby local authorities, and building control officers... habitable attic conversions need planning. Therefore everytime a client requests one, i will make a planning application!!! Im not about to embark on a crusade for you or anyone else in your position.

2. Habitable conversions MUST comply with building regulations. These can be life or death measures.


IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?
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Re: Attic conversions - exempt development

Postby parka » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:38 pm

henno wrote:OK, I WILL MAKE THIS SIMPLE FOR YOU.

1. According to my local authority, nearby local authorities, and building control officers... habitable attic conversions need planning. Therefore everytime a client requests one, i will make a planning application!!! Im not about to embark on a crusade for you or anyone else in your position.

2. Habitable conversions MUST comply with building regulations. These can be life or death measures.


IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?


Have to agree.

If in doubt apply for a Section 5, you'll soon be told whether it is exempt or not. ;)
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