"Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

"Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby tommyt » Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:03 pm

Hi all,
Looking for a few opinions on this one.

I am helping out friends who live in Kildare. They bought a wooden house 5 years ago that is now in a pretty bad state of repair. They have just started a family and put in an application to demolish the existing house and to replace it with a new wooden kit-house from Finland and an upgrade to the septic tank/percolation area.

On the final day Kildarecoco sent out a Further Information request including a reference to the old “Local Need” non-sequitir regarding one-off houses.

Is the council considering this as if it is a completely new build?
At what stage are you considered local? Is there hard and fast rules in Kildare?
Is the council within its right to consider this as if it was a new site? In my mind the people in question have established their commitment to the area seeing as they have lived there for five years and would have no trouble complying with any conditions stating they could not sell-on their home for any number of years if this was conditioned in.

I had a look at the development plan and consider this a pretty grey area.

Has anyone any experiences in dealing with a situation such as this?
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:03 pm

Can't answer all of your questions, tommyt, but I'll give what I know.

Sounds like the usual 'Oh the deadline's tomorrow! Send out a request for A.I. and buy some more time' tactic- a not uncommon occurrence. But afaik, the 'local need' criterion only applies to new builds, which this clearly isn't.

Might be worth your while contacting the LA directly to ask about the applicability of 'local need' to replacement dwellings- without necessarily declaring your hand re involvement in this application.
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby tommyt » Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:24 pm

ctesiphon wrote:Can't answer all of your questions, tommyt, but I'll give what I know.

Sounds like the usual 'Oh the deadline's tomorrow! Send out a request for A.I. and buy some more time' tactic- a not uncommon occurrence. But afaik, the 'local need' criterion only applies to new builds, which this clearly isn't.

Might be worth your while contacting the LA directly to ask about the applicability of 'local need' to replacement dwellings- without necessarily declaring your hand re involvement in this application.


thanks ctesiphon,
I reckon they are buying time as well but I don't know how unusual a case scenario this is.L.A. are pretty much uncontactable, I am chasing this one up as a favour for old friends and have brought it as far as I can without getting more involved so was hoping for a few possibly related anecdotes..
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby ctesiphon » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:10 pm

Buying time? Not that unusual at all, sadly.

As for the rest of it, I'm out of my depth I'm afraid.

Was there any other content in the A.I. request, or was it exclusively for the 'local need' proof? That'd seem mighty thin on its own, imo. Maybe the other (possible) A.I. content is more substantial? But I confess I'm clutching at straws here...
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby FIN » Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:03 pm

they probably just want it in writing so that if anyone asks then they can say they got proof. a solicitors letter confirming their presence there and stating other such things along with the form will sort it out.
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby Barry Hall » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:06 pm

If the existing house is being demolished - the new house is presumably classed as a 'new build'. I know of a situation where a semi derlict timber cottage near me was re-developed. The applicant applied to build a concrete block external skin aorund the 'shack'. In effect when it went on site the existing building was completely demolished and a new house was built on the same footprint. The L.A. turned a blind eye to it.

It sounds like your freind would have little difficulty proving a connection with the area and if he is refused he has the option of going back and looking for alterations to the existing house.
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby Archie » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:51 am

I think you need to look at the content of the county development plan - most likely available online -

If its a replacement house it may be more favourably looked on but I think its a case of the documentation being sought now as it was not included with the original application. After all the planning dept. would not be able to grant permission in the absence of details that may be clearly set out in the development plan.

I'm a great believer in talking over issues like this with the planner concerned. Most times they are very approachable.

Hopefully it wont be too much to worry about
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Re: "Local Need" Ambiguity in KE

Postby tommyt » Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:58 am

Thanks for all the replies folks. The people in question got a little feedback off the area planner and it is looking a little more positive. I will post anything interesting that comes of the decision as I think this could be an interesting test case..
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